21" is a standard width for public seating whether it be stadium chairs, theater chairs, etc.

Saw a billboard promoting Portland as "Soccer City" from the train the other day -- approaching Seattle's King St. Station. Man, who would have thought you'd need a vomit bag on a train?

Who paid for this billboard?

Butt then, most soccer fans are on the slight side.

> Who paid for this billboard?

Um, just a guess here but: the Timbers? And it was a great marketing move, got lots of media coverage as a rivalry building spit-in-the-eye to the Sounders (it's just down the street from Qwest Stadium) and a single billboard is a drop in the bucket for their ad campaign.

The minimum standard for seat width is 21" because the median adult is 21" wide at the shoulders.

So, if the existing bench-style seats at PGE Park aren't re-numbered, and continue to allocate just 18" per seat location, that means that for every seven tickets sold, only six adults, on average, will actually be able to fit in any given row.

And, by the way, several of the seating sections with bench-style seats have already been sold out, according to the Portland Timbers official website.

What's the solution? Well, the website encourages fans in those seats to stand!

I forgot to mention that two nights ago the Pasadena City Council approved a plan to renovate the Rose Bowl.

One of the main elements of that plan will expand the Rose Bowl concourse from its current size of 2.5 square feet per person, to 4.5 square feet per person.

How does PGE Park compare?

Well, the concourse for the existing grandstand at PGE Park measures 1.25 square feet per person, and that figure will remain essentially the same, based on the renovation plans that have been made public, even though Major League Soccer's Venue Design Guide (the document that city officials and soccer officials hide from the public during the public review process) requires a minimum of 4 square feet per person.

So, by the time you get just over 3,000 people in the existing concourse at PGE Park, it will be completely gridlocked. That means that up to 15,000 people in the existing grandstand (where 80% of the seats will still be located after construction of the new grandstand) will be physically unable to leave their seats at halftime to go to the restroom or a concession stand.

That's what Merritt Paulson, Mayor Sam Adams, and the rest of the city council call a first-class, family-friendly venue.

Hey, I used to live in Pasadena, and Pasadena has problems of its own, but at least it has crooks with vision.

Finally, with the Timbers website encouraging fans to stand in seats that are too narrow to sit in (as I mentioned in my previous posting), presumably that means standing at an angle, like you did for your class photo back in elementary school.

Peter Apanel,
Thank you for your involvement, perseverance and information. You may be one who has the material for one of the books on what happened in Portland as was talked about on one of the threads today.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog." General Dwight Eisenhower

No one really needs to worry about seating for Timbers games. They will never draw enough to even half fill the place.

"No one really needs to worry about seating for Timbers games. They will never draw enough to even half fill the place."

Well, at least not more than once.

The Timbers will sell out some games. But not after the league folds (or the sewer collapses).

... that means that for every seven tickets sold, only six adults, on average, will actually be able to fit in any given row.

You do realize that there must be separate benches for the youth and children for this to make sense, right?