I found a quote farther down to be quite amusing, and indicative of the root of the problem: http://www.portlandfeed.com/2007/01/10/tram-ticket-prices-duh/

Well, the city folk certainly aren't representing the public, so I suppose it makes sense they should hire someone to do it. ;oP

No kidding. Ms. Lane appears to be available for such things -- I see she's also on the Public Market board.

Once you cut through the fog of lies and deceit coming out of the CoP leadership and OHSU, we find that the financial numbers presented by many bloggers right here continue to be substantiated in principal.

They said, "$8.5 to $15 million dollars to construct."
Bloggers, here, said, "No way... it can't be done at that price."

They said, "For OHSU and the Public."
Now they say, "We'll raise the price so high that the public can't afford it."

I hope we don't lose track of the names and faces of those who continue to lie to us.

Character and honesty do matter.

Some day we will find out how much we paid Wendy Lane to represent us. Is she Penny Lane's sister?

The annual operating budget of $1,700,000 works out to a mere $4,657.53 per day. What a bargain!

Wendy Lane owns and operates Lane PR, a PR firm downtown.

URL: http://www.lanepr.com

Perhaps she could fill us in on the process by which she was selected to represent us.

More importantly, WHO is paying the monthly retainer that is going to her firm? And where is that money/funding coming from?

I hope she's related to Lois Lane.

Facts:
Just three months ago at a SoWhat URAC meeting Art Pierce and other PDOT staff said the CoP's share of the tram operating cost would not exceed 15%.

For the past three years PDOT, PDC staff and namely Matt Brown (PDOT) and Larry Brown(PDC) have been reporting to City Council, the URAC, and the media that the taxpayers share of the operating cost would not exceed 15% (based on projected ridership share).

Just six months ago it was reported to the URAC that the operating costs were projected to be LESS than $500T in total.

Opinion:

When is the public really going to be represented? Just having one person, who is a far stretch to be called a "public representative" on a committee is not a true public representation. It is like the makeup of most URACs-mostly property owners, beneficiaries of the Urban Renewal Areas, and one or two "at-large" representative(s).

Sorry, Mr. Cat. Tram closed Sunday's and holidays. Daily cost = $5,611. With an estimated 1,600 trips a day that equals $3.51 per trip in operating costs alone.

I suspect Ms. Lane is not being paid for her service on that committee.

1,600 trips a day that equals $3.51 per trip

I guess that means it needs to be run more frequently. And faster.

All this so that some doctor will have an extra half hour a day to botox some old coots from the West Hills. What a joke.

Well, see, with the $4 fare, the things gonna be profitable from the get go! I mean, as long as no one has a monthly pass. I was doodling around last night, God knows why, trying to calculate a rough number of paying customers per trip that will be required to cover the 1.7mil. It's not such a huge number, I think it's more potentially break-even than the streetcar?

end sarcasm.. sort of..

Or all this so that some doctor can get to his OHSU Health Club sooner for his massage. Plus the 500 doctors who "own" the Health Club pay not one dime in taxes for anything; besides getting $5 MILLION dollars of Portland taxpayer dollars to help build the health club.

The saddest part? The vast majority of the public likes the way the city is being run, is too slow to catch on, or doesn't care. It's sort of how George Bush got re-elected. The tram is Portland's Iraq.

I sense that the public employees responsibe for the tram have moved on to bigger scams to flow my property taxes to rich people.

I'd feel better about it if they had the common courtesy to give me a reach-around.

Perhaps it could be a pro bono thing for Ms. Lane, but it would be interesting to know how and what she is doing to represent us. Interesting that it's not on her client list posted to her firm's web site.

the public employees responsible for the tram have moved on

No, actually the current City Council members all played a major role in foisting this upon the public. Messrs. Sten and Saltzman voted in favor of this cruel joke at every important step. Mr. Adams was Vera Katz's chief of staff when Homer Williams and Neil Goldschmidt talked her into it. Mayor Potter decided early on he would go through with it, so long as he could get rid of that goofball quasi-public corporation full of OHSU and Homer Williams lackeys that purported to be running it. And Mr. C.R. Leonard also voted aye after a stirring speech in which he said something to the effect of "You can't stop progress."

They haven't moved on. They're all still there, figuring out how to make it look as though this is some unforeseen act of God rather than their own pitiful mistake.

And as long as they've got Mark Wiener, "voter-owed elections," the unions and the Bus kids on their side, they've got lifetime job security. So get used to it. Canola oil for all!

Will wonders never cease. Does anyone have any feathers. I have the tar.

The "public" she really represents (from the client list on her web site)....

Carroll Investments
Costa Pacific Communities
Guardian Management
Norris, Beggs & Simpson
Bullivant Houser Bailey PC

Somebody told me that the lubricant of choice these days for this kind of ill-use is Gold'n'Soft margarine. Tasty!

Damn that Swiss franc exchange rate!

Residents have asked why more university shuttle buses could not be used to make the connections. But Walker and university planners say the buses cost more than people realize. After installation, a tram's yearly estimated operating cost, in the range of $500,000 to $1 million, would be cheaper, Walker said. Plus, planners say, the tram is quiet, does not emit pollutants, and is more efficient.

Oregonian, February 1, 2001

A final transit touch for that corridor would be a tram that would climb from the riverfront above Interstate 5 and touch down at the OHSU campus. OHSU is considering building a women's health center on the waterfront. The tram would link that center with the main campus, OHSU Vice President Jim Walker said. Early estimates put tram costs at $3 million to $5 million.
Oregonian June 15, 1998

Character and honesty do matter.

No they dont..not in Portland. Its only ideology and popularity. Otherwise, voters would not keep re-electing them.

Davis, who will present the preliminary engineering study tonight, said estimated differences in cost, travel time -- four or five minutes vs. eight or 19 minutes for buses, passengers per hour, and car-trip reduction make the tram a clear choice over adding shuttle buses. The university operates a shuttle system between the hill and its other city sites, some of which it hopes to consolidate in North Macadam.

Davis said the university would have to add 10 buses costing $1.2 million a year to operate, compared with the estimated $480,000 for a tram system, and buses would not reduce as many car trips between the sites.
Oregonian March 1, 2001

Hey, JimK...

You forgot to mention that the tram *rimshot* does not obviate the presence of a fleet of shuttle buses as ground transport. Indeed, it seems that the operator of the tram is contractually required to maintain and operate the fleet, for "when the tram is shut down". Of course, since they have to have the fleet anyway, and there are all sorts of things travelling between the two portions of campus that aren't allowed on the tram...

And, it's my understanding that there are two very large diesel generators that generate the electricity to power the tram *rimshot*. Diesel engines spew all sorts of greenhouse gases, particulates and, as recently mentioned, more than our share of carcinogenic benzene.

So...

The net result of the tram *rimshot* is not less pollution,

*drumroll*

but MORE.

*cymbal crash*

godfry: You forgot to mention that the tram *rimshot* does not obviate the presence of a fleet of shuttle buses as ground transport. Indeed, it seems that the operator of the tram is contractually required to maintain and operate the fleet, for "when the tram is shut down". Of course, since they have to have the fleet anyway, and there are all sorts of things travelling between the two portions of campus that aren't allowed on the tram...
JK: Got a source for that? I’ll add it to my tram web page, otherwise, I’ll probably find it as I complete my review of past newspaper articles.

The tram web page will be added to
www.debunkingPortland.com
when finished.

Thanks
JK

Hooray for tram math,
Traaaaaam math,
It won't do you a bit of good to learn tram math.
It's so simple,
So very simple,
That only Tram Adams can do it.

(Apologies to Tom Lehrer)

A few notes:

Under the 2003/04 agreement with OHSU, the City agreed to cover 15% of operating costs for the first two years of tram operation, under the modeling that assumed 85% of ridership would stem from OHSU. This agreement is still in effect and thus the city is responsible for around $220,000 of operating costs. (15% of roughly 1.7M)

At the end of two years, the actual ridership makeup would determine the city's share of operation costs. Thus, if non-OHSU employees comprise 50% of riders, we would indeed be responsible for $900,000 of operation costs.

Once the tram opens, time will tell what the makeup of ridership will be.

The net result of the tram *rimshot* is not less pollution...

Plus, why couldn't OHSU use natural gas buses like Trimet...waaaay less pollutants than diesel.

The tram runs on electricity, not diesel. The two back-up generators are diesel, though. As are the vast majority of TriMet buses.

Jesse--can you explain how "ridership makeup" is determined? Are only OHSU employees "charged" (or whatever the term would be) to OSHU? What about people who are using the tram to attend a doctor's appointment--how would they factor into the ridership makeup?

Sure thing. OHSU employees and patients of OHSU are all OHSU riders.

Yo, JK...

I just reviewed the RFP and it states that OHSU is responsible for maintaining the surface shuttle fleet, but I haven't seen any sign of reduction in the fleet or its regular operation. I'm assuming they'll continue to run it as a supplemental redundancy....I guess we'll have to see.

It looks like I was misinformed, but then who knows what has transpired since. I suppose somebody could ask OHSU, but they'd have to know which employees of the approximately 10,000 that might have the answer. Good luck.

At least they didn't pick somebody from the Oregonian's Editorial Board to represent "us".

How can I get a job as a professional shill for well connected Portlanders?

How much does it pay? Maybe Wendy is Lois Lane's sister...That would be cool.

Q: where do you sell the most umbrellas?
A: in places where it rains alot

Q: when do people purchase bags 'o salt to throw on sidewalks?
A: on days like today (in anticipation of slippery conditions sometime soon).

Q: when might lots of tourists with time and $$$ on their hands visit Portland to see stuff (ie tax free shopping, zoo, downtown, Pittock Mansion, Powells, then ride the trolley from NW all the way through downtown to SoWa and then over to ride the tram up/back just to check out the awesome view while becoming aware of a major regional health care facility)?
A: on Saturday & Sunday & holidays (surprisingly identical to when most people are off from work + kids are out of school or relatives are in from out of town)

Q: what days will the OHSU tram be shut down?
A: Sundays and holidays.

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/pdf/ridership.pdf

The Portland Street Car ridership ranges from

6500-9000/weekday and 3000-5500/day weekends according to the published data.

So I can't see the Tram exceeding those numbers.

I did find some operating costs, but since I did notice Mr. Smith was head of the CAC, maybe he could fill us in on the total operating costs.

I could only find bits of the cost at

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/commconstruction.php

For only one section.

Let's not forget that veterans are promised to use the tram without a charge to get to the VA hospital. Not sure who's picking up THAT cost.

In the meantime, I've a reservation for four for the tram ride on opening day at 10:15...you game, Jack?

Anybody else interested?

Not interested.

Comeon Jack, how often to you get to be the creamy surprise in the twinkie.

Am I missing something... but doesn't the PUBLIC PAY for all of the Tram Cost anyways. I thought OHSU is a Public/Private??? entity. I bet the cost of the tram get's put into the "Public" pile of bills to be paid by taxpayers.

If I'm wrong, help me out a little bit. My kids want to know if the money designated for the TRAM TAX will cut into their spending money.

Let's see... OHSU gets money from the state government, from the federal government, from insurance companies, and from people who go there as patients. It's coming out of your taxes, your health insurance premiums, or your medical budget...

Sounds like it's your kids' spending money, all right.

Let's pull those fat cats off the hill.

Jessie Beeson. Thanks for representing Sam Adams office.

Question: How and who determines which passengers are OHSU employees and patients, plus the VA employees/patients? Couldn't I easily claim I had an appointment with a PillHill doctor, or that I am going to the emergency room? (Many times I go to the doctor without a doctor appointment slip) Do visitors to patients or doctors (like wives, children) get a free ride? Do medical salespersons parking in our neighborhood get a free ride? Do medical technicians, delivery people to PillHill get a free ride?

Who does the counting/audit of ridership-OHSU employees? Would you expect them to be fair after the tram boondoggle? Who audits the auditor?

Why does LocalNewsDaily.com post that the taxpayers portion for the tram operating cost is "nearly $900 thousand" when the projected ridership reduces the taxpayers amount to $255 thousand (15% of $1.7M)?

Who is negotiating in the public/taxpayers interest on the operation costs breakdown?
Is it Sam? If it is Sam, how did the press get the taxpayers portion of operating costs to be $900T ?

Why did Sam come out with the $4 public trip cost several weeks ago, but today decide to reconsider? When does public opinion sway Sam?

Sam is very "swayed" by Homer Williams and the developer cabal. Learned it from Vera. As for the "public," I think to him it's mostly an "audience," to which he "plays" constantly. He wants to be mayor, obviously. We can only hope that the financial sewage hits the fan the day after he announces.

Jerry and Jack,
You better slow down on these questions of the CoP leadership decisions... next thing I know, you'll begin questioning the real cost of the Burnside/Couch Street Diversion plan.

And if you do that, then we'll have to hear the CoP leadership tell us another boat load of lies. Then we'll have another week's worth of accurate information, links, and who knows what else to read through before we move onto the next CoP leadership boondoggle.

I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT... and my children are already upset about their spending money going to pay the TRAM TAX!

Jim Karlock, thanks for the quotes from the Oregonian quoting public officials. It is further proof that this thread and others are not blowing smoke.

A friend of mine rode the tram recently. He said the story about how tram riders would not be able to see into people's back yards, or, front yards, is total b.s.. It's a clear straight shot, easy viewing.

There is indeed, he said, frosted glass. But it's on the floor. Way below eye level, and seemed mainly to serve the purpose of giving the rider a better sense of security in the "floor" he/she was standing on.

If my backyard was under those guys, not that I'm telling anyone what to do, I'd ask my most uninhibited friends (even better if they come equipped with more than the usually admired generally accepted mass of "love-handles") to come over and spend some "uninhibited" time in my back yard.

Call it art. Certainly it would be public!

I'd have some interesting signs on my roof, that's for sure.

"voter-owed elections"

Is that a typo, or a pun, Jack?

And what am I to do? I make a reservation for four to ride the tram and my wife turns me down ("I'm not riding that thing.") my step-son likewise ("I'm busy washing my hair."), Jack's "not interested"...

C'mon...this is a bit of Versailles in Portand, or maybe the Tour Eiffel. An engineering feat that rivals the tram to Blofeld's headquarters on Piz Gloria in the Alps! (C'mon you James Bond fans...)

Will no one ride the tram with me? I'M the one afraid of heights...but will I have to soldier on alone, with no one to hold my hand? (Well, figuratively speaking anyway...)

Every non-OHSU person who rides that thing is another dollar that the city will have to pay toward the $1.7 million a year to operate it. I'm not going to contribute to that. I think it's every Portlander's civic duty to stay off it, at least for a good long while.

(BTW, if they're saying now that it will cost $1.7 million a year to run the thing six days a week, you can bet it will be more, much more.)

And of course "voter-owed elections" is intentional. We're all owed big time by Emilie. Let's see, $5431 a day to run the tram, and Boyle is into us for what? 90 grand? You could run the tram for 16 and half days on that -- more than two and a half weeks.

I think it's every Portlander's civic duty to stay off it

You mean I can take my fear of heights and trams and such and make a civic virtue of it? Cool...

But what would James Bond do?

Anyway, it would be interesting to understand the numbers better. Why does it cost $5431 --assuming that number is accurate-- to run the tram every day? Maybe we should sic Auditor Blackmer on that one...

Here's where I got the number: $1.7 million divided by 313 operating days (closed Sundays). Actually, if they're closing holidays, too, it might be more like 305, which would put the daily tab at $5574.

How they're calculating the $1.7 million is not entirely clear. I wonder if it counts interest on all the debt that the city took out to build the thing; I would suspect not, but I don't know.

Plus, does it include the backup shuttle bus fleet? Or is that extra?

My son bought me the Columbo series DVD's and one of the episodes opening season was plotted around the tram down at Palm Springs. Actually Jack that's how Columbo caught the murder suspect. (Roddy McDowell in polyester, healed boots, and fat hair) and proved William Windom innocent. You would enjoy watching Columbo on his first tram ride he was quite woozy, it was the second one where he had recovered his sea legs where they fooled poor Roddy into thinking they had found the exploding cigar case and had triggered the fuse inside the tram. Roddy (who built the exploding cigar case) thinking it was about to blow, grabbed it from Coloumbo and threw it out the door before the tram was blown out of the air. Of course it wasn't a real bomb only a fake Columbo had built to trap the murderer.

Sorry, my point was that maybe the powers that be saw that episode of Columbo and figured the TRAM was a LYNCHPIN for local law enforcement.

I just rode that Palm Springs tram during the Thanksgiving holiday. It was awesome and packed with people. Of course, there was something to actually see at the top, as opposed to here, and it cost like $20 for the ride, so I'm assuming it's little drain on public finances (also unlike here).

The shuttle bus will need to keep running, at least on the Hill and probably down to SoWa. One of the problems with the tram is that it is point to point. The campus on Marquam Hill is too big for frail people to walk from their appointment in family practice on the north end, over to the research buildings on the south side. Likewise the employee parking lots are a long way from the hospital, especially at midnight in weather like this. And OHSU in SoWa isn't going to be all in one building at the end of the tram, either. They'll still need the shuttle, and should upgrade and expand it to better serve the huge numbers of employees who will never travel between the hill and SoWa.

But remember, we can't have all those thousands of bio tech jobs without the tram... oh... wait a minute.

Slightly tangential topic, but the whole issue of "public representatives" like the lovely Ms. Lane is pretty interesting. The Council also has five citizens who are supposed to represent each of us during the budget process. They are selected by Council with, as far as I can tell, no public input. I have no doubt they are well-meaning citizens, but the whole concept of unelected, unaccountable people speaking on my behalf pisses me off. There was even an attempt to give them VOTING rights on the budget, but fortunately state budget law prohibits that.

It shows how far we've fallen from the idea that politicians are supposed to represent the public. Now they just bring in lackeys to do that so they can think big thoughts.

Amanda:

I agree. The "problem" solved by the tram *rimshot* was the time to travel from a point in the lower campus to a point in the upper campus was "the time stuck in traffic".

According to the shuttle schedule, they state that time from upper to lower is 10-15 minutes. That sounds like a lot compared to the 3-minute tram *rimshot* ride, until you consider that the shuttle can get you to places on the campus that you'd half to spend time walking to, having taken the tram. *rimshot*.

So how much "time" has actually been gained. From my perspective, OHSU should have invested in a fleet of 'green' shuttle buses and equipped each of them with more space and places to put laptop computers (I'm thinking fold down from the seat back in front of you)....and wifi, of course. Expanding the fleet to increase the frequency would help a lot, too. They could probably even have worked with Tri-Met to create a really integrated system.

The point is, if they'd invested in a decent surface transportation system, they could have done it for considerably less than they've committed on this limited, high-cost, glitzy, but entirely superfluous toy...

Doesn't the fact that OHSU thinks of itself as a tourist destination unsettle anyone else?

And the cost of health care continues to rise. Gosh...I wonder why?

The shuttle bus will need to keep running..

Sorry, I'm losing track here. Which shuttle buses are we talking about?

I drive to Schnitzer parking lot. Wait for the Schnitzer Shuttle that takes me to the tram. Wait on line for the next tram ride. Get up the hill and walk to somewhere to catch a shuttle bus up there to get to the building I need.

Sounds like I'm saving lots of time.

Signs on roof? How about renting space to medical malpractice attorneys? Anyone interested in advertising?

Now that the tram is running, does anyone know the final total capital cost of the project? It's hard to buy the last estimate of $55 million as the final word. That dates from a long time ago and ... why is nobody is hurrying to announce the final cost?

They're not done.

I like the advertising space idea...mayhaps we have some Lair Hill/Terwilliger types who will take it to heart.

Banners would work, too.

I rather think that a "Dukabhor protest" on the ground might be fun, but then, a goodly number of the riders are supposed to be medical professionals for which nudity shouldn't be a huge, big deal.

If the neighbors below want to have a really neat effect, they could place undenuded co-conspirators aboard the tram cars while the nude sunbathers are below. Two or three per ride should be fine. Then these three would take the names of all OHSU personnel (we all wear nametags) who ogle and make smarmy or lewd ennuendoes and turn them all in to OHSU's Affirmative Action office for sexual harrassment. This would make the tram *rimshot* real popular with OHSU riders.

The only problem with this is that when it's comfortable weather for the sunbathers, it'll be the inside of the microwave for the riders.

*DING*

"Three minutes, you're done!"

why is nobody is hurrying to announce the final cost?

How about because there is more bad news - IE: more than the 533% over budget that it currently is?

Of course we won't really know until the lawsuits, if any, are settled. And until someone sorts out all of the hidden costs and money that was shuffeled around.

Thanks
JK

It has been annouced that there have been 5000 free tickets given away for the free period in late Jan.-sounds like someone has the nerve.

Jack, the $1.7M operations cost does not include financing costs. Like Larry Brown, representing the PDC on the North Macadam URAC, says, "financing costs are not figured into costs of PDC projects". The rest of the world, and underlings like us, include the financing costs, but not PDC.

The final cost can't be computed yet because the tram terminals are not completed, plus some other items. There is also work orders, change orders, etc. to be worked out in the hopefully $57.5M budget (not including financing-what, no financing costs again in this budget line?)

If the city is going to cough up a share of the operating cost due to non-OHSU Portlanders, shouldn't the fare income from these non-OHSU people be counted as part of Portland's share?

Thanks

It has been annouced that there have been 5000 free tickets given away for the free period in late Jan.-sounds like someone has the nerve.

That must be for the opening weekend that's free...and you're s'posed to call in and make a reservation. Like I have for 10:15 Saturday, three tickets STILL available (assuming I can't strong-arm my wife and step-son to join me...)

Yes it is a boondoggle. Yes the math is murky and the taxpayers will pay the price. But I have to tell you, if you ride the tram on a clear day, the view is incredible! And yes, you can see people's hottubs and patios and backyards (but you're not supposed to be looking, ; ). It is useful for me as an OHSU employee but I still don't quite see the benefit for the greater public.

Godfry:

RE: your ad/banner suggestion...The Federal Highway Safety Administration's airspace regulations prohibit any advertising.

We wouldn't want to distract any careless drivers on an interstate highway, right?

If the $4 dollar charge is reduced or eliminated for the general, TAXPAYING public (the supposed cost to reimburse only the operating cost-heck with the $57.5M tram cost or the financing cost), then Sam is proposing to take the new parking meter income in the SoWhat and apply it to the tram operating cost. Nice. There is always a way for our politicians to finance any pet project except fixing our roads.

No, no, no, Mister Tee...
Not on the tram.
On the ground so it can be read from the tram.
If you could get enough participants on the ground, it could be done Burma Shave style.

The FHSA has nothing to say about what these people put on their properties, particularly if it can only be seen from the tram.

I loved Sadie's comments. Yes, you can see, but, you're not supposed to look.

Human nature has something to say about all this. Nature will have the last laugh here.

Nature always bats last.

Valentines Day is coming up fast. How 'bout Tram Gift Cards?

Show off one of those babies in the elevator when trying to make conversation or while cocktailing and we'll know who's more uberhip. Prepay $25 $50 $100 just like down at Home Depot.

2500 cards at a Benjamin each, thats 250k. A quarter mil cash in float/lost gift cards right there(remember the Sakajawea dollar coin, it's everywhere!!). Now CoP is down from 1.7 to 1.4.

My apologies, Godfry...I didn't read very carefully.

Were it n,ot for the FHWA prohibition, the Trams would make great floating billboards (think Goodyear Blimp), with an electric sign on the bottom of it. Assuming they have electricity, I mean.

If we had another pair of trams going from OHSU directly to City Hall, they wouldn't cross I-5. CAN YOU SAY FIVE SIDED BILLBOARDS, BABY? It would save OHSU's minions a whole lot of wear and tear on their cars, guccis, and cellphones. Probably reduce traffic too.

Yes: I'm joking.

Mister Tee: If we had another pair of trams going from OHSU directly to City Hall, they wouldn't cross I-5.

True, but it would cross I-205, so you can give up that dream.

You mean I-405...Not I-205.

I was assuming that section of freeway would be covered by the time the next tram gets built, probably with an ice skating rink on top.

A boy can dream, right?