Portland's come out on top of a list as the very worst place in the country for discriminatory taxes on travelers. The taxes in question are probably going to pay for the Vera Katz Wing of the Convention Center, which is almost always empty.
Those poor tourists. But according to another study, they should think of it as a value proposition -- they might get lucky while they're here.
Comments (18)
Spring 2011 I had occasion to have to rent a 15 passenger van for a day to transport a group on a tour of some local facilities.
Enterprise has a location about 8 blocks over, on Barbur Blvd., in SW Portland, in Multnomah County. Looked at cost there.
Enterprise has another location about a mile and a half further out Barbur / Pacific Highway in Tigard, Washington County. Looked at cost there.
Exact same vehicle. Huge difference in cost, all of it Portland City and Multnomah County taxes.
Cost is a huge issue for the little 501 c 3 which was paying for the rental for its program.
Easy decision.
Probably an equally easy decision for convention planners who are choosing between the Portland Convention Center and a facility in Orange County, CA., as well.
The study doesn't really quantify the results, i.e., no definitive list of the "discriminatory taxes" that result in the rankings.
Having traveled a bit, virtually every locale has room/occupancy and rental car taxes. BUT, the traveler also gets hit repeatedly on paying sales tax for every purchase. Of course, that is not the case in Oregon.
The survey results may be based on the actual taxing rates for each category, but I'm unsure.
When friends come to Oregon as first-time visitors, they are uniformly shocked at these two realities:
a. we are fobidden to pump our own gas at retail stations
b. we have no state and/or city sales tax.
In The Economist article, Portland and Minneapolis are singled out in the list as cities without great attractors which charge high taxes on tourist / traveler oriented goods and service.
After last Wednesday's farcical vote in City Council, Portland and Minneapolis will both be proud operators of bike share programs.
Another huge issue to conventions coming to PDX is the arcane OLCC rules that say that all drinks (even at hosted events) are by the glass and not by bottles and mixers consumed (the way it's done in cities with successful convention business).
I'm not positive this is relevant to OLCC rules now, but here's a story from a while back:
The Bee Gees were staying at a hotel downtown where I worked. I saw one out walking around by the pool, and you could tell everything he was wearing cost major bucks: The swimsuit, the sandals, the white jacket, the hat, the shades, the jewelry. I remember thinking - forget the jewelry - the clothes alone could be a couple of grand. He looked like he was walking around on a very expensive yacht.
Throw in the golden tan, and he was basically screaming, "I'm a giant music star. Deal with it."
Anyway, I heard they ordered a bottle of booze and were shocked at the price. It had to be sold by the drink so it was several hundred bucks, and the Bee Gees were not going for it. They hired someone to go to the liquor store for them and score a bottle at the regular price. Rich as they were, they weren't crazy.
Nonny, you live in my 'hood. Trail tip, if you need to fly out of PDX: Go to Beavertown or Tigard, rent a car, drive out to PDX and drop it there. I usually rent the day before, park at my house, then do the drop-off. So little gas is used that you don't get charged; the tank still reads as "full".
Bill, what's a "Bee Gee"? I thought you might be going all porno on us here, but then you said something about "giant music star".
Portland actually has the third lowest total travel tax in the country. That's not saying discriminatory taxes are nice but your total bill will be less in Portland than most any other city.
These rankings magazines do really obfuscate issues. I'm getting tired of them.
Sewohs: Do you work for that money loser of a Convention Center? Or is it some other public financial sinkhole? Try on $22.00 in taxes and fees on a $28.00 a day auto rental from Thrifty
last November...
Oregbear and sewohs have hinted at the points that make the information in this article completely irrelevant, though it is pretty obvious from the language quoted in The Economist.
"[D]iscriminatory travel taxes and fees enacted on travel-related services impose an average increased cost on visitors of 56% over general sales tax."
We have no general sales tax... The study (which I have not purchased and so can not state exactly how their math works) appears to be discussing taxes on travelers that are not imposed on residents. That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with total taxes levied on travelers, or the incredibly important OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN: taxes imposed on residents but NOT travelers.
Typically the bloggers at The Economist consider what they're writing about. Not this time.
This is just a lobbyist/propaganda/advocacy group for business travelers. Their research is likely dreadfully biased, and meant to pressure municipalities into removing a particular group of taxes which disturb their constituents. Not credible.
Build the damn Convention Center Hotel. Then all will be perfect and good in the world, we'll have conventions just tripping over themselves to come to Portland; the Convention Center will be booked three years in advance and our economy will just be through the roof with all of the economic impact.
Taxes. Sheesh. We all know Oregon is a low-tax state, especially since we don't have a sales tax, and we have so many tax incentives for businesses to come to Oregon - it's foolish NOT to think of Oregon for your next business or convention.
It's okay though - tourists may be taxed the most in Portland, but there isn't that many of them, so the overall burden is quite low!
The answer is clearly to scare away the rest of the tourists by raising taxes further! We're already taxing the crap out of them more than anywhere else, so we don't need to worry about moving up the list even further than #1!
If the convention center were a business, it would be reporting that during 2010 it lost $1,400,000 on revenue of $1,300,000, with operating costs the total of both. The tragedy is that taxpayer dollars seem to be considered somehow different than business dollars.
Meanwhile, the Penn Square Partners keep their revenue figures a closely-guarded secret, even though they are operating rent-free in a taxpayer-owned building. They are paying down a $24 million construction bond for their building, in addition to their initial $11 million “equity” investment to furnish and equip the hotel. The total cost of the hotel building was in excess of $76 million, with taxpayers funding the balance.
That’s not all.
Adding insult to injury, the hotel receives ALL revenue from the third and fourth floor ballroom and meeting rooms, even though these spaces were built and are being maintained by taxpayers. Many events have already been held in the “convention center” where the organizers and attendees had no idea that their money was going directly to the Penn Square Partners.
But wait, there’s more!
100% of the hotel’s kitchen was built and is being maintained by taxpayers, as is the connection between the parking garage and the hotel lobby, half of the hotel lobby (including the piano!), and portions of Interstate Hotels and Resorts’ offices. The public also has total responsibility for both the Queen Street lobby and the Vine Street lobby.
All of these – and much, much more – are a part of the agreements negotiated by Stevens & Lee with the Penn Square Partners on behalf of the Lancaster County Convention Center Authority (taxpayers).
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 21
At this date last year: 52
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (18)
Spring 2011 I had occasion to have to rent a 15 passenger van for a day to transport a group on a tour of some local facilities.
Enterprise has a location about 8 blocks over, on Barbur Blvd., in SW Portland, in Multnomah County. Looked at cost there.
Enterprise has another location about a mile and a half further out Barbur / Pacific Highway in Tigard, Washington County. Looked at cost there.
Exact same vehicle. Huge difference in cost, all of it Portland City and Multnomah County taxes.
Cost is a huge issue for the little 501 c 3 which was paying for the rental for its program.
Easy decision.
Probably an equally easy decision for convention planners who are choosing between the Portland Convention Center and a facility in Orange County, CA., as well.
Posted by Nonny Mouse | August 20, 2011 11:55 AM
The study doesn't really quantify the results, i.e., no definitive list of the "discriminatory taxes" that result in the rankings.
Having traveled a bit, virtually every locale has room/occupancy and rental car taxes. BUT, the traveler also gets hit repeatedly on paying sales tax for every purchase. Of course, that is not the case in Oregon.
The survey results may be based on the actual taxing rates for each category, but I'm unsure.
When friends come to Oregon as first-time visitors, they are uniformly shocked at these two realities:
a. we are fobidden to pump our own gas at retail stations
b. we have no state and/or city sales tax.
Posted by Oregbear | August 20, 2011 12:04 PM
In The Economist article, Portland and Minneapolis are singled out in the list as cities without great attractors which charge high taxes on tourist / traveler oriented goods and service.
After last Wednesday's farcical vote in City Council, Portland and Minneapolis will both be proud operators of bike share programs.
There has to be a link.
Go figure.
Posted by Nonny Mouse | August 20, 2011 12:32 PM
Time Magazine says we're the most over-sexed city in America? I think that calls for a group moan.
Plus, it explains the agenda at the next City Council meeting, where they'll vote on a clothes removal fee.
Posted by Bill McDonald | August 20, 2011 12:47 PM
Yeah, but we don't have a sales tax.
Posted by observer | August 20, 2011 1:00 PM
Another huge issue to conventions coming to PDX is the arcane OLCC rules that say that all drinks (even at hosted events) are by the glass and not by bottles and mixers consumed (the way it's done in cities with successful convention business).
Posted by LucsAdvo | August 20, 2011 1:27 PM
I'm not positive this is relevant to OLCC rules now, but here's a story from a while back:
The Bee Gees were staying at a hotel downtown where I worked. I saw one out walking around by the pool, and you could tell everything he was wearing cost major bucks: The swimsuit, the sandals, the white jacket, the hat, the shades, the jewelry. I remember thinking - forget the jewelry - the clothes alone could be a couple of grand. He looked like he was walking around on a very expensive yacht.
Throw in the golden tan, and he was basically screaming, "I'm a giant music star. Deal with it."
Anyway, I heard they ordered a bottle of booze and were shocked at the price. It had to be sold by the drink so it was several hundred bucks, and the Bee Gees were not going for it. They hired someone to go to the liquor store for them and score a bottle at the regular price. Rich as they were, they weren't crazy.
Posted by Bill McDonald | August 20, 2011 2:35 PM
Nonny, you live in my 'hood. Trail tip, if you need to fly out of PDX: Go to Beavertown or Tigard, rent a car, drive out to PDX and drop it there. I usually rent the day before, park at my house, then do the drop-off. So little gas is used that you don't get charged; the tank still reads as "full".
Bill, what's a "Bee Gee"? I thought you might be going all porno on us here, but then you said something about "giant music star".
Posted by Max | August 20, 2011 3:02 PM
I always get my hookers in Portland instead of the 'Couv because of the sales tax issue.
Posted by John Fairplay | August 20, 2011 5:51 PM
John Wins
Posted by dman | August 20, 2011 6:46 PM
All I know is that when you rent a car at the PDX airport; the City or County Tax on the rental is one of the highest I've encountered anywhere.
Posted by Dave A. | August 21, 2011 8:00 AM
Portland actually has the third lowest total travel tax in the country. That's not saying discriminatory taxes are nice but your total bill will be less in Portland than most any other city.
These rankings magazines do really obfuscate issues. I'm getting tired of them.
http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/cities-that-tax-travelers-the-least-and-the-most/
Posted by sewohs | August 21, 2011 3:11 PM
Sewohs: Do you work for that money loser of a Convention Center? Or is it some other public financial sinkhole? Try on $22.00 in taxes and fees on a $28.00 a day auto rental from Thrifty
last November...
Posted by Dave A. | August 21, 2011 5:37 PM
Oregbear and sewohs have hinted at the points that make the information in this article completely irrelevant, though it is pretty obvious from the language quoted in The Economist.
"[D]iscriminatory travel taxes and fees enacted on travel-related services impose an average increased cost on visitors of 56% over general sales tax."
We have no general sales tax... The study (which I have not purchased and so can not state exactly how their math works) appears to be discussing taxes on travelers that are not imposed on residents. That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with total taxes levied on travelers, or the incredibly important OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN: taxes imposed on residents but NOT travelers.
Typically the bloggers at The Economist consider what they're writing about. Not this time.
Posted by Thomas | August 21, 2011 7:14 PM
Also, remember the source: http://www.gbta.org/foundation/about/Pages/whoweare.aspx
This is just a lobbyist/propaganda/advocacy group for business travelers. Their research is likely dreadfully biased, and meant to pressure municipalities into removing a particular group of taxes which disturb their constituents. Not credible.
Posted by Thomas | August 21, 2011 7:20 PM
The solution is simple.
Build the damn Convention Center Hotel. Then all will be perfect and good in the world, we'll have conventions just tripping over themselves to come to Portland; the Convention Center will be booked three years in advance and our economy will just be through the roof with all of the economic impact.
Taxes. Sheesh. We all know Oregon is a low-tax state, especially since we don't have a sales tax, and we have so many tax incentives for businesses to come to Oregon - it's foolish NOT to think of Oregon for your next business or convention.
Posted by Erik H. | August 21, 2011 9:05 PM
It's okay though - tourists may be taxed the most in Portland, but there isn't that many of them, so the overall burden is quite low!
The answer is clearly to scare away the rest of the tourists by raising taxes further! We're already taxing the crap out of them more than anywhere else, so we don't need to worry about moving up the list even further than #1!
Posted by MachineShedFred | August 22, 2011 7:48 AM
This is exactly what Portland will produce. There is no stopping it.
In about 6 or 7 years Jack will have a blog post like this with the only difference being the names of "stakeholeders" and "partners".
http://newslanc.com/2011/02/11/the-convention-center-has-failed/
If the convention center were a business, it would be reporting that during 2010 it lost $1,400,000 on revenue of $1,300,000, with operating costs the total of both. The tragedy is that taxpayer dollars seem to be considered somehow different than business dollars.
Meanwhile, the Penn Square Partners keep their revenue figures a closely-guarded secret, even though they are operating rent-free in a taxpayer-owned building. They are paying down a $24 million construction bond for their building, in addition to their initial $11 million “equity” investment to furnish and equip the hotel. The total cost of the hotel building was in excess of $76 million, with taxpayers funding the balance.
That’s not all.
Adding insult to injury, the hotel receives ALL revenue from the third and fourth floor ballroom and meeting rooms, even though these spaces were built and are being maintained by taxpayers. Many events have already been held in the “convention center” where the organizers and attendees had no idea that their money was going directly to the Penn Square Partners.
But wait, there’s more!
100% of the hotel’s kitchen was built and is being maintained by taxpayers, as is the connection between the parking garage and the hotel lobby, half of the hotel lobby (including the piano!), and portions of Interstate Hotels and Resorts’ offices. The public also has total responsibility for both the Queen Street lobby and the Vine Street lobby.
All of these – and much, much more – are a part of the agreements negotiated by Stevens & Lee with the Penn Square Partners on behalf of the Lancaster County Convention Center Authority (taxpayers).
Posted by Ben | August 22, 2011 8:06 AM