I'm willing to bet that Max Rider who was hassled by the PPB was a person of clor.

Wow.

As an aside, telltale spelling errors betray anonymity. Spell check is our friend.

Dum-dum-dum-dumb! What a jagoff cop. Where do they train these lunkheads now, inside a cement mixer? Maybe the cop has a TBI.

Anyway, lucky that he didn't shoot the waiting rider for holding their phone-weapon so provocatively. Tri-Mess + Portland Pervlice new motto: "To Project and Smirk."

God misses America, too, no doubt. Now lemme see, where's that Bill of Rights thingy?

My thinking as well, Nonny Mouse.

Did anyone send this story to Tri Met for comment?

Since so many people don't want MAX, don't want to pay for MAX, don't want to use MAX, don't want MAX to rezone their neighborhood, at this rate it's probably only a matter of time before we're forcibly herded onto the damned thing by armed goons.

Ridiculous! That never happens to me when I let a full bus pass me at at a bus stop, and I do that frequently. Nobody raises an eyebrow.

What's more, there are people who spend hours sitting in the bus shelters, with a pile of stuff, obviously having no intention to use transit (at least, not legally).

Maybe that's because the bus isn't a rolling crime-magnet in quite the same way that MAX is. There's money to be allocated / granted for patrolling MAX, in particular.

They focus on any possible violation there, as they have to keep up the narrative (juke the stats) that MAX needs those extra patrols.

Sounds like it might have been the Gresham cops, not the PPB, given that 181st Ave is mentioned. Your informant should send a complaint to both TriMet and Gresham City Hall.

DD: Bus Shelters are on the public sidewalk, a MAX station is seperated from the right of way, I assume it is legally different. I don't think you can smoke there either (not sure), unlike the sidewalk downtown. Obviously you won't get a ticket at a MAX stop downtown when you don't get on a train, but are standing on the sidewalk. Platforms are different. :ike Gru,py's comments about the armed goons.

Grumpy,
"Since so many people don't want MAX, don't want to pay for MAX, don't want to use MAX, don't want MAX to rezone their neighborhood,"

It's only a matter of time before we're seeing a citizen's initiative petition to forcibly halt their expansion.

Is anyone interested?

Citizen Poll, it's probably going to happen soon. It may be more of a throttle than halting, for better potential of passage.

The MAX stops between 162nd - 190th are all plagued with violent incidents due to the level of drug activity in the area. 162nd is particularly bad because the CoP placed a methadone clinic on the NW corner of 162nd & Burnside (50 ft. outside Gresham's City limits.)

Drug dealers from various gangs hang out there trying to intercept patients on the way to get their methadone. This has led to numerous shootings and stabbings between competing dealers in/around the MAX platforms.

Not every heroin addict looks like they walked out of Detox. In '95 or 96 there was "Soccer Mom" (w/3 children) from SW Gresham going through a mid-life crisis.
She left her husband and took up with a 21 yr old that introduced her to tar herion.

When the two ran out of her money they became desperate. The pair went to her (retired) mother's trailerhouse at 205th & Stark wherein the boyfriend stabbed the mother to death.

The pair then forged the dead woman's checks, looting her life savings. Which, as I recall, was about $17K. The "before" photo's of the woman looked like any mom of elementary school aged children. She is doing 20 years, the boyfriend got natural life.

If the reader did not think the officers that contacted her acted in an appropriate manner, she can call Gresham P.D. @ #661-3000 and ask Police Records to leave a message requesting a callback from Lt. Tony Silva. He is the Gresham P.D. Command Officer assigned to TriMet

I thought everyone's big concern was that MAX was dangerous, because it's underpoliced and full of thugs. Then when there's some enforcement, everyone hates that too. East side MAX stops have been notorious as drug sales points and places to get mugged. One way to cut down on that is to enforce the loitering statute. You've got to enforce it across the board, or you get equal protection problems. This person got a warning, and went about their business. It didn't sound like they were abused or disrespected. Why the freak out? Make up your mind, you either want MAX to be safer, or you want to let people hang out on the platform as long as they want.

By the way, officers assigned to Tri-Met are 'real police.'

Does "white" qualify as "a person of color"?

This is my employee, and she is a perfectly respectable, well dressed white female. The whole thing is a mystery. I'm thinking it relates to the Occupy Tri Met thingee that was supposed to happen that day.

It's only a matter of time before we're seeing a citizen's initiative petition to forcibly halt their expansion.
Is anyone interested?

The people of Portland better be interested and need to initiate something pronto if they want to stop plans coming off the shelf, the density of bunkers and facilitating a "redo" along Hawthorne, Belmont, Division, Foster, Powell, etc.
I am getting emails today about this regarding an extremely fast-tracked proposal by the Portland Housing Bureau (PHB) and Bureau of Planning and Sustainability (BPS) to create areas of long-term tax subsidy to private developers of new multi-unit/multi-storied apartment buildings. This may have to do with the Portland Plan going before Council for acceptance in a couple of weeks, others who comment on here may have more information. It looks like without proper notification to the public, neighborhood associations,etc. of details. This is a process unbecoming of a city that promotes citizen involvement, that claims they listen to the people! Looks like they don’t have time for that charade anymore, maybe it all costs too much. This is moving fast, all stops out now. We won't recognize this city we once had an affinity for by the time they are done with the "redo"!!!
Remember who is for streetcars and LIDS! Remember the talk of "halo LIDS?" We all pay! We pay with loss of our city landscape we loved dearly, loss of our neighborhood character, loss of any semblance of a democratic community, loss of our quality of life here and loss of our money!

With this latest episode on Tri-Met, looks like loss of freedom as well.

I'm thinking it relates to the Occupy Tri Met thingee that was supposed to happen that day.

I'm thinking you might be right.

Nancy, in a 25 yr career I've arrested *plenty* of persons of that decription for various criminal violations. The first time I was ever assaulted on the job I got kicked in the face, really hard, by a woman of that description wearing platform shoes.

Remeber the old addage: "You can't judge a book by it's cover."

"You can't judge a book by it's cover."

So treat 'em all like porn?

OK, I'm not in a line of work where some people hate me, some are mentally I'll, and some would kill me given the chance. So I ask this question in sincerity: Does "coming on like gangbusters" increase your safety on the job? We know that the majority of folks are non-perps and that the bad PR will be remembered and retold. And there is a cost to that. The few interactions with peace officers I've had were polite and professional. With one exception: where I was a witness to a violent crime. But I live in a safe 'hood. It the attitude worth it efficacy-wise?

HMLA -

First, it is spelled "adage".

Second, if you are in law enforcement and think that you can threaten a citizen who is doing nothing more than waiting for a train, then I hope you are retired. If not, you are a poster child for retraining.

Oh, and by the way, no one ever asked her to see her ticket (which she had!)

I guess this story pretty much confirms that "Crime-Met" has at long last solved all of those non fare paying, drug dealing, hoodie wearing, gun totin, 4 on 1 smackdown beatin, purse snatchin, thugs that USED to ride the train last month, huh?

I wonder why Joseph Rose has not informed us of the "Crime-Met" solution to the Max thuggery.

Re: "a poster child for retraining"

nancy,

Retraining by Capt Mark Kruger:

"A Portland police captain who was suspended less than two years ago for bringing 'discredit and disgrace upon the bureau and the city' was tapped this year to provide leadership training to command staff."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/03/portland_police_captain_who_pu.html

"When asked why the bureau chose Kruger to lead the training, [Assistant Chief Larry] O'Dea said in a written response, 'because he has developed an expertise in the role leadership plays in solving common tactical problems ...Captain Kruger's work in this area has made the Bureau's response to tactical incidents and people in crisis better and safer.'

O'Dea added that his class has received 'excellent peer reviews.'"
 

Perhaps the cops were looking for a person who fit the description of the woman. We don't know this, do we?

Nancy--wasn't calling HMLA on his spelling a bit petty?

If it is a MAX station that serves just one line (i.e. those Blue Line stations east of Gateway along Burnside) then there's a legitimacy to the officer's actions - "why didn't you take the train"? There are extremely few - if any - crush load trains past Gateway, or west of Beaverton (to Hillsboro). And very nearly every train goes to the same place - there are a small number of exceptions of shortline trains that go only to Ruby Junction, Merlo or Elmonica - trains that are going to the yard at the end of their day's run. And in the morning, there are some trains that may start out as a Blue Line train to downtown (since the two yards are along the Blue Line), but then become a different line.

Between Beaverton TC and Gateway TC, however, there are multiple lines overlapping each other. If you're at, say, Hollywood bound for Willow Creek - you can't take a Red or Green Line train unless you want to transfer somewhere. But a Blue Line train will get you there. So naturally you would wait for the Blue Line.

If HMLA-267 is a stinger, he's earned my respect.

I did not know that skipping a train could get you a ticket if you have valid fare. Did she have a ticket while dwelling? Is this a platform on the public sidewalk or in a marked fare-required zone? Most of the latter are very well marked as thus in recent years.

When I was a young lad my best buddy and I took dad’s car into downtown Portland. Our intent was to find someone to buy some booze for us. Well dressed and in a nice car we began our search around Burnside street. We were quickly spotted by two of Portland’s finest as soon as we approached our first new “friend”, and promptly pulled over. They knew what was going on, and they knew we had a “right” to be there, but told us to move along back to the other side of town quickly or else. Yes, they violated our rights, but they stopped trouble. I’m not saying this lady was up to no good, but maybe they wanted to pass on a message to her. That is, a well dressed woman buying a ticket and then hanging around a max station all alone is a recipe for trouble. Move along lady, or else.

"I'm willing to bet that Max Rider who was hassled by the PPB was a person of clor."

Funny that you should say that Nonny – because my immediate thought was the opposite – I bet this rider is a middle age, middle class , white person. The cops need to make sure they stop as many of that demographic as possible – so as not to look like they are profiling or anything.

It was me! Im white, single working mom(not that it matters, just clarifying). I let the Merlo Road max pass me by, knowing full well a co-worker was on the next train, in fact, she texted me because she had an open seat next to her. I OFTEN let the Merlo Road train pass me by. The comments I made in the blog were actually quotes from an inter-office email, that my boss, a respected attorney, decided to submit after reading it (with my permission). I only added the "real police" part after several of my coworkers assumed that it was the trimet police(which I totally understand are legit police). To me this was significant that a regular uniformed officer who normally wouldnt have as much focused interest in trimet riders (as opposed to traffic violations, crime and the like) had observed my 5 minute wait at the 7 am train. The only way I would think they would have even noticed me is if the Max driver themselves had alerted the police.
I did find it VERY odd that neither officer (one behind me to block my quick exit?) asked to see if I even had valid fare, even though they were apparently so well versed in how transit officers do things and all the fines and penalties that can happen for letting a single train go by. Banned from all trimet property? That would literally make it where I could not afford to go to work with the cost of gas and parking downtown.

Last year we had a lengthy series of conversations with TriMet management about "loitering", because we regularly do field research at TM stations and I did not want our student interns to get hassled. One of them had been kicked out of a Green Line station the year before, deemed to be a "security threat" because she was standing there for too long.

We were hoping for a letter or memo from TM that we could copy and give to our researchers, providing them immunity from TM police.

It turns out, after much back-and-forth, that no such letter was necessary. We were told we can stand at a MAX station as long as we like, and the person we spoke with promised to contact security personnel to remind them of that. Apparently some police officers never got the memo.

I let the Merlo Road max pass me by, knowing full well a co-worker was on the next train, in fact, she texted me because she had an open seat next to her. I OFTEN let the Merlo Road train pass me by.

So, if this is true - that there was a train that was shortlining at Merlo, and you were travelling to a point beyond Merlo, why is anyone giving you any grief?

What difference does it make - you're going to have to "loiter" on a platform either where you are at, or if you take the Merlo train, at Merlo.

Where in the TriMet Administrative Code does it say that you are required to take the next train, even if you are required to get off that train and then catch a following train at another station? Waiting for the next train because the last train did not go to your destination is well within permissable uses of a transit station.

Rayah,
I am so sorry this happened to you. This does not seem possible that one cannot have free choice and wait for the next train. Now, you will have to miss that ride with your friend and be on pins and needles waiting to get on the train. I wonder what will be cooked up next to take one's freedoms. I am glad you were not banned.

I suppose decent citizens will no longer be allowed to sit on the benches in the Park Blocks, or just stop and gaze at the river from the Vera walk way (you MUST jog or ride a bike?).
This city has just gone so far down hill...I was going to say off the rails...come to think of it, it has!

Nancy, I was simply trying to explain a bit, and offer a piece of advice. Thanks for the kick in the teeth. If your employees attitude was anywhere near what yours is, I can pretty much figure how the contact went.

Have a nice day.

"Sometimes I think this whole world
Is one big prison yard.
Some of us are prisoners
The rest of us are guards."

-BD,"George Jackson"

You have got to be kidding!?

Oh, I BEG them to do this to me. I am waiting for the next train from now on. Holy cow, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

His exact words were "traffic cops write traffic tickets and TriMet officers write citations and ban people from TriMet property."

See, my smart mouth would have got me in trouble there. I would have asked the nice officers what they did to get that crap duty with less authority than a Trimet officer.

I can assure you I have the utmost respect for police officers, even though I AM a law abiding citizen, I am always extremely intimidated by the police (whether my s***-my-pants reaction is warrented or not, just who I am). I was completely respectful, answered all their questions completely and honestly. Please do not make assumptions to my character or behavior.

Notice the word "if".

What does this really bode for our future here?
What is next?

Portland Native has a sense of what may be coming by his concerns, will we be allowed to sit on a park bench, or just gaze at the river?

I will add will we be able to look up at the moon at night? Who knows, by then we may all have a curfew!

No disrespect intended toward you or your experiences, HMLA-267, but I don't understand their relevance here. The simple fact is that the police are hassling someone for "loitering" when she has a valid fare THAT THEY DIDN'T EVEN ASK TO SEE. And what exactly is the definition of loitering, anyway? Since she couldn't have been there longer than about 20 minutes (and I'm guessing it was less than that), if only 1 MAX train passed... is that the standard?

If the cops really were interested in seeing if she has a right to be there, WHY DIDN'T THEY ASK TO SEE HER TICKET?

Asinine, bullying behavior is what that is.

None taken, Larry. If you're nutty enough to seek out the profession, you better have a pretty thick skin.

I wasn't there, so I can't say what happened. There could have been previous incidents causing citizen complaints or a thousand other reasons that placed the police there, and felt the need for contacting the person. Really, you would have to speak to the officer making the stop to find out why.

As to the tone of the contact, there are two sides to every story. Police officers are human beings, and if they percieve that you are immediately hostile, or accuse you of being officious (for what they believe to be a reasonable reason for the contact), it probably won't be a warm and fuzzy kind of contact.

My particular job sent me to several different cities, and I worked with several different agencies. In my entire career, I was never so routinely treated with rudeness and discourtesy as when I worked in Portland.

It was common for citizens to say bad things, call you names, and threat you with utter contempt - simply for wearing a uniform. I was even refused service in a restaurant. It was shocking to me. I didn't complete my assignment in Portland; I asked to return to my parent agency early becuase the working conditions there so negative.

Granted, for about the last 15 years PPB seems never to miss an oppotunity to shoot themselves in the foot. It is an agency in crisis, and most of their wounds are self-inflicted.

But then, look at the Mayor and Council. Most of them are so batfeces crazy they sleep hanging upside down. Bad city management will make for bad police management. And, I do not have the slightest idea how to fix any of it. I'm just glad I'm retired.

If she had a valid pass it's hard for me to imagine that a transit cop would ticket her, no matter what this "real" cop quipped. I don't know what the law is but I would imagine this cop was simply wrong or exaggerating. Cops do that. Breaking news such as this "folly" is supposed to rile people up?

If the cops really were interested in seeing if she has a right to be there, WHY DIDN'T THEY ASK TO SEE HER TICKET?

I don't know why they passed up their opportunity to scrutinize her fare. Maybe they've never written a fare citation before or don't know how to properly verify proof of payment. Perhaps after speaking with her, checking her for warrants, whatever, it was clear she was not a ne'er-do-well and they just moved on.

The entire point of the fare-required areas is to further empower police officers to talk to anybody hanging out on property intended only for customers waiting for trains, with no possible argument that loiterers and fare evaders just haven't got around to buying their ticket yet. That's not something TriMet is even coy about.

If I saw somebody just milling around at a stop before and the train came in that part of town I'd think that's pretty strange and there's a fair chance they were up to no good. There's only one line there and there's not gonna be another train for a while. Who does that? I wouldn't be alarmed but I'd be wish a cop were in the vicinity and checked them out.

"Crime-Met" has at long last solved all of those non fare paying, drug dealing, hoodie wearing, gun totin, 4 on 1 smackdown beatin, purse snatchin, thugs

If you think only male thugs do things like deal drugs on the street you are extremely naive of the world around you, and you likely have "SUCKER" written on your forehead to criminals that don't fit your construction.

The talk about crime, race, and gender isn't politically correct hypothetical mumbo jumbo to me. In Vancouver my folk's house was broken into in broad daylight by a 30-something heroin addict 4 or 5 years ago. This person found the house after following my sister as she walked home alone from her after-school job at a daycare. She lurked outside after my sister got home until she departed shortly after with my dad. She incorrectly deduced nobody else was home.

After our pug started acting funny my mom and I caught the thief red-handed going through our things on tiptoes in the living room and we kept her there until the police arrived. The cops had a moment of confusion at first figuring out who the bad guy was supposed to be. Later her cute purse was searched and was full of jewelry from another part of the house along with a bunch of uninflated balloons used to package black tar heroin and miscellaneous drug paraphernalia, and things stolen from other people. Turns out she was the mother of a couple kids at that daycare and no longer had custody, and overheard my sister talking about her plans later that day while she was there (unsuccessfully) trying to pick up those kids.

She looked like any ol' suburban soccer mom and spoke articulately. Good looking. She could probably rob a liquor store right before your eyes and folks like Mr. "Crime Rail" would have trouble understanding what is happening.

People on this blog have whined about TriMet not taking more initiative with their transit policing for years. I'm heartened by this example of police apparently treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination, the definition of fairness. And I suppose I don't mind if those that follow the ideology of this blog dilute their influence with all the wolf-crying.

In NY, you need a token to get into the site for the subway. What is so difficult about that?

Re: "I don't know what the law is..."

Aaron,

That is a primary problem for everyone: we don't seem to have been informed of all the laws that now seem to be in force to constrain our behavior in public places. Indeed, even the definition of "public place" appears to have been ambiguously defined by TriMet -- ambiguously, that is, with respect to ordinary language and assumptions that follow from it.

Would it help were TriMet to provide an all-inclusive list of all the citations to which TriMet riders and potential riders are subject when they elect to be transported by light rail?

In NY, you need a token to get into the site for the subway. What is so difficult about that?

In Portland, you need proof of payment to be at these MAX stops.

Fare jumpers hop turnstiles, just as people can choose to sneak into fare-required areas without fare in Portland. The premise is the same in NY, if you're in a subway station transit police can stop you and verify if whenever they want. How would this have been any different there?

And Gardiner, what exactly are you proposing? Should the rider have had some magic piece of paper she could pull out to check that "skipping a train" wasn't on it? An all-inclusive enumeration of the laws kind of already exist, they're the laws. Most people, even cops, aren't able to be conscious of all of them. What makes transit citations special compared to other kinds? What is the problem you're trying to solve and how practical is that, really?

I don't try deliberately to be contrarian; just, other folks get impressions different from mine in situations where we're looking at the same evidence.

This bojack thread was picked out by LarsLarson for his 'Grill o' the Day' Monday, April 9 -- 4 days late -- but he didn't specify which element in the tapestry he meant to wither under the focus of his grilling-hot hate. Maybe Tri-Met was his target.

From my first reading of Jack's post the impression I got is that the 'co-worker' lady waiting for a train was being hit on by a Portland cop for her attentions and perhaps affection, and the other Portland cop was flying 'wing man'.

Through all the comments I found only reinforcement for my first impression. The lady (victim) is a young mother, gainfully employed in an attorney(s) firm, self-spoken in a dignified manner. I imagine she was decently poised and attired fashionably, waiting for a train of her choosing.

I have witnessed loveless (or unloved) cops 'on the make' (in the streets, on patrol ... or 'stalking'?), with no apparent virtue or merit of their own yet seeming to think a uniform, badge and gun endows them with authoritative maturity and garbs them with attractive costume. I claim I have seen such cop behavior (and moreover, the same self-assured behavior by other men dressed in uniforms, hitting on or 'soliciting' unescorted women), I don't claim I understand why they act that way -- but some do.

In my view of this story, the bad guy is the individual cop imposing his personal (and too intimate) fatuation, quite unreciprocated. His individual oafishness is his own blame; not reflecting the general manner of Portland cops, not a blemish on the Tri-Met institution (unless they should patrol their public platforms to ward away vagrant cops trolling for personal love, lust, whatever vice), not a disgraceful characteristic of all residents in a certain section of town.

The commuting public doesn't appear bad, Tri-Met or its 'Security' doesn't appear bad, Portland Police Dept doesn't appear bad by my lights in this story. Only that one lascivious cop -- and, notice, he took her name, address, phone number, marital status and social routine ....

And notice the lady's essential complaint is not appreciating and much disliking the (his) attention.

@Tenskwatawa I love Lars, when I get a chance to hear him, I checked the podcast for yesterday and didnt hear it on the grill o the day. Was it on another segment yesterday or perhaps grilled on another day?

Personally I think its predatory.

OBEY, Citizen.