But in the counties and states in the article, the local governments will maintain the gravel roads with frave.

In Portland, its a catch 222. PBOT wont maintain a gravel road, and PBOT will not do any new pavement of unpaved streets unless and until enough local voters threaten a the Mayor or a city councilor at the polls.

And Jack - its not just the esat side. Residential SW is replete with unpaved residential streets. ITs a close race between SW and the entire easr side for total miles of unpaved street, and the esat side is 3 or 4 times the square mileage of residential SW.

The gravel roads sure don't need the bio swales of what ever they call them.

Never happen here. Most bicycles can't ride safely on gravel.

Out here in Aloha on SW Kinnaman Rd area the roads are paved but there are frequently no curbs nor sidewalks.

Once I took the bus home, got off at the 209th and TV hwy stop and walking to my place down 209th I had to jump into a ditch to avoid being ru over by the indy 500 traffic on SW 209th.

Jon sez: Never happen here. Most bicycles can't ride safely on gravel.

Correctamundo!

Proof that bicycles are no more 'sustainable' than internal combustion engine vehicles.

I predict the concrete people will be along shortly with "an offer we can't refuse."

As I recall history the bicycle people in the late 1800's were the first to promote paved roads and having the government maintain them. The last part allowed the liability issue to be shifted to the government so if you were hurt. Well tough!

Well, once our mayor and PBOT hears of this, you can kiss goodbye any hope of ever getting your unpaved Portland street paved. In fact, look for Hizzoner to retweet this any minute now with a note touting Portland's head start on this "green streets" design.

And I guess the long-suffering folks living along the gravel roads in Woodstock can feel a little smug now that they're on the bleeding edge of this depaving trend. Nah, they'd probably still like the streets paved, the ingrates.

is there a map available somewhere that indicates which roads are unpaved in PDX? I'd be very interested to see it. I see a lot of unpaved roads in the Cully neighborhood, but I'd be curious to know the other neighborhoods that have been similarly neglected while we waste millions running a streetcar down MLK.

is there a map available somewhere that indicates which roads are unpaved in PDX?

The Portland Mercury has one here. You can get a larger image on page 19 of the report the Mercury provides the link to. Cully definitely is a hot spot for unpaved roads, as is outer southeast (guess that annexation didn't work out so well after all).

I grew up here in Oregon with over 10 miles to travel on a gravel road to reach the paved road into town. There's some false notions about gravel roads, chipped sealed or not.

Whether gravel or chipped, the wear and tear on vehicles is expensive. The paint chips from gravel normally reduced our vehicle resale-value by over $1000, even back in the 50s and 60s. If the roads were oiled sealed the tar/oil deposits were impossible to remove-devaluation.

Tire wear was atrocious on either, meaning additional maintenance cost.

Shocks and steering rod bearings went out frequently.
The DUST, well, that is pollution beyond belief.

And then there is the driving safely factor. 180 to 360 degree spin outs were frequent in the loose gravel and even in the chip roads on the edge. Us teenagers usually had two to three spin-out accidents before we finally slowed down and stayed away from the edges. My brother will always remember taking out 150 ft of fencing at a 45 degree turn.

Fuel consumption is naturally higher on gravel/chips. Oh, the washboard episodes on rutted gravel slight inclines were the ultimate-you ended up not being able to talk because your voice box was a vibrating machine and you couldn't hear your radio, or your passenger, and your vehicle became one big rattling machine forever-squeeks forever that lower the value.

Yes, I'm looking forward to going back to nature. And another thing, gravel and chip surfaces are not all that green. Why do you think there are ditches along these kind of roads....there is rain runoff. It's not the porous-that is why there are puddles and wash boards even on gravel roads. But all these Greenies that have no life experiences, just out of community college or PSU think they know it all, and want to foist their thinking on all of us. Enjoy, it's a carnival ride.

I used to live on a gravel road in Multnomah, lots of unpaved roads here and there in SW

So it's not just a NE/SE issue

Citizens need to rise up and demand basic services and tell the council to forget their pet projects

I think we've paved enough in this country, not every road has to be paved over. It's ridiculous.

Gotta have money to do anything, and there isn't any.
Somebody's going to have to pay up sooner or later.

Jon sez: Never happen here. Most bicycles can't ride safely on gravel.
BS. I prefer gravel roads because the cars bottom out. Fat tires are perfect.

I used to live just east of Jamestown,ND. Except for the State highway, nearly everything was dirt or gravel. This was in the late 60's. If they got paved,it was fairly recently. If they got took away, its not such a shock as all that.

ND has been losing population for decades. How do you expect the increasing cost of service to be foisted on fewer and fewer?

Yes but, with gravel streets there would be no need for the Big Pipe. Think of how many mountain bike tires we could buy with that money saved.

Portland should do that to the sellwood bridge and turn it into a earth bridg.

The problem with gravel roads, is that they require frequent maintenance as well. The thing is: the maintenance is cheaper.

However, Portland's idea that they just don't maintain "unimproved streets" means that you get potholes. Then, the potholes turn into freakin tank traps that resemble something from present-day Fallujah, thanks to the amount of rainfall we receive.

I made the mistake of turning on such a road in Woodstock the other day, and barely didn't make it out alive.

Abe, like I said, there is still a lot of runoff from gravel and chip roads. A big pipe is still needed.

The water, oil, rubber dust still goes somewhere, and it isn't all into the ground. I've lived on an oil sealed/chip street right here in SW Portland. Of course it hasn't been sealed and chipped for 12 years now. PBOT says they haven't the money for it even though all the neighbors have been calling PBOT for 10 years now. The street still has a lot of water runoff with storm drain catch basins about every two blocks. The runoff is just as much as a nearby paved street. In fact, the run off is so bad that it has flooded three home basements, garages, and a main floor in the past few years.

Maintenance of the street is just as much as paved. We had over 36 pot holes in two blocks. We all call constantly to have them patched, but they only seem to do about three to five each trip then head to the shop because quitting time is three hours away. Sam's Pot Line is a farce.

Your thinking that gravel roads are the answer needs some reality and common sense.

AT what point does it become an ADA issue with these pot-holed streets impassable by wheelchair? Would that get Sammy-boy's attention?

Here in SW there are potholes the size of moon craters. You could lose a small auto in one. But hey, that fancy paved Springwater Corridor trail sure is nice for the bikes.

If you think the powers that be running this city give two hoots about unpaved streets, guess again. They LOVE it when car drivers are miserable. I am forced to rub elbows with certain Greenies in gov't and hear it all the time. The hubris is unreal. The Green Religion has firm foothold in City Hall and they are bound and determined to make Portland as car-free as possible.

Vote the bastards out. If a candidate is member of BTA, don't vote for him/her.

dm -

The better voting guide is that if the candidate is supported by the Bicycle Transportation Alliance, do not vote for that candidate. Period. The pols who carry water for BTA without being members are dangerous.

I'm pretty sure that PAVED streets are "greener" than gravel.

Paving a street for a smooth ride ensures minimal friction; thus improving fuel economy of vehicles travelling on the paved, smooth street. Improved fuel economy = energy independence from the bad bad Middle Easterners.

Paving streets also provides jobs for hundreds of Portlanders needed to keep up with the streets, and maintain them.