"No turn on red" is probably the most universally ignored sign in the handful of places where it appears.

$200K for this test project? Must be growing on trees.

Does anyone have a picture of the traffic signs associated with these boxes? Will it provide enough information to out-of-town drivers or is it some sort of vague "Yield to Bicycles"? Green boxes are not a universal traffic device.

I dont think there are any signs...just a box at the front of the line. And bikes can move up there any time.
Basically all I see happening is a slowing of traffic.

I did find this site though...it has some good info.

http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/stopline.htm

I saw one while driving. There are signs. And the boxes themselves are pretty darned hard to miss.

Found this pic online of one:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/portlands_bike_boxes.php

I do agree it will probably confuse the out of towners, or Portlander peeps that don't drive through the inner-city much.

So these bike boxes must be observed and complied with by drivers at all times, 24/7/365 even when no bikes are present?

Perfect. Reminds me of the dumb 24/7/365 school crosswalks law the legislatured passed then repealed a year later.

Keep Portland Weird

It looks like Prince Adams is already looking for court jesters to help him try and run his Kingdom. If he's looking for any better lackey than John Branam, I doubt he will find one. Branam has already made a mockery of the VOE system with his lack of judgment for paying his campaign manager $25,000.
http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content?oid=729382&category=38037

---------------------------------------

Honest people of Portland, be on the lookout for the Adams/Branam cabal. These two are regularly seen together. Any one outraged by the behavior of the Branam campaign should consider a vote for Branam the same as a vote for Adams. Branam will be a rubber stamp for King Adams and all his shenanigans.

BRANAM IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF GUY YOU’D EXPECT ADAMS TO SURROUND HIMSELF WITH!

Sho Dozono and the residents of Portland, you've been warned……...

------------------------------------

FROM THE WW:
“Without making any endorsements or calling, Adams hinted he might put Council candidate John Branam —"who strikes me as somebody very capable"—or Amanda Fritz in charge of the cops. (Branam and Fritz are running for Adams' seat.)”
http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=11099

--------------------------------------

ALSO FROM THE WW:
Beth Slovic writes on Mar 21st, 2008 12:05pm
“Sam Adams, John Branam and Tina Kotek were sitting together in the nose-bleed section during the speech. When Obama hit his stride talking about education -- saying kids need art, music and P.E. -- Adams gave Branam a big thumbs up. It was super cheesy.”
http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=11295

Looks like what they've done here is give us a solution that's now looking for a problem to attach itself to. It just isn't apparent how this remedies the problem of overeager bicyclists passing motor vehicles on the right while the motor vehicles are in the process of making a right turn. That's what happened in the two infamous instances that drove this change, is it not?

Making intersections "no turn on red" doesn't solve it either because it can just as easily happen on a green light, probably even more easily.

That's what happened in the two infamous instances that drove this change, is it not?

Not.

The bike boxes are coupled with an extension marketing campaign, a lot of signage (in addition to the painted markings), and an enforcement/education strategy by the Police Bureau.

So far, compliance has been very high.

I've been covering them extensively on BikePortland.org.

Learn more about them here.

Browse lots of photos of them here.

Not

Is?

I have always found painted parts of the road dangerous on a bike if the ground is wet (5 months out of the year in portland) on a motorcycle the painted areas of a road are down right scary. No opinon about the box idea but I hope they added a coating or something that will not make it as slick. Anyone know?

@26

"It's non-slick thermoplastic (and different than the thermoplastic used for lane striping, crosswalks, etc). It's embedded with curundum, a mineral that gives it a non-skid characteristic."

http://bikeportland.org/2008/03/15/first-look-at-portlands-new-bike-friendly-green-space/

"It's embedded with curundum, a mineral that gives it a non-skid characteristic."

That can't be good on the elbows and knees.

All I need is a map of the Bike Box locations so I can plan a route away from those areas. My minivan is has been engineered out of the Portland Works plan and will stay in the suburbs.

That's what happened in the two infamous instances that drove this change, is it not?

I dont think they were trying to "pass" on the right, they just happened to be in a position that the trucks couldnt see them. The sad part is, until the bike lanes were put in, you never had to think about someone going straight on your right. Thats because it isnt safe.

I am pretty sure the signals were green when the cyclists were killed according to the reports. They were just some place common sense says they shouldnt have been. I dont even like being next to large trucks when I am in my car. And these "bike boxes" are not going to solve the problem of cyclists being creamed at green lights when someone is turning right.

It just isn't apparent how this remedies the problem of overeager bicyclists passing motor vehicles on the right while the motor vehicles are in the process of making a right turn.

This is a fundamental mis-understanding of the law. In this case the cyclist (a vehicle going straight in its own lane) has the right of way. The car turning across the lane is required to yield.

In the green light case the green markings help by making the bike lane more visible, but the main benefit of the bike boxes is in the red light case when it allows the bikes to get out in front of the cars where they are much more visible. This would have prevented Tracy Sparling's death last year.

Jeez, people. Lighten up.

These boxes are going to be installed at intersections with high bike traffic to prevent cyclists from being killed by motorists turning right. It's about the length of one car and the cyclists are generally required to go back into the bike lane after the light turns green again.

They will not cause traffic delays, except for the kind that occur after a vehicle driver destroys a human life by failing to turn their head to the right to be sure they are not about to run over a biker.

Give them (the boxes and the bikers) a chance.

"They will not cause traffic delays"

Well that's ridiculous if they are preventing right turns on red all the time. Bike lanes without the boxes already have people waiting to turn right. Fearing invading the unused bike lane to turn right. I see that all over the place. No bikes and traffic backed up waiting because of the bike lane.

Call me a naysayer but I'm also not going to naively, and knee jerkily , automatically believe, or assume, they will save one life either.

And people must always turn on their BS detector anytime a bike or rail transit activist is commenting on what causes or reduces traffic delays.

I've used the bike boxes in the Netherlands, where they are common. The two main advantages are that they give you an easy way to make a left, by being able to pull in front of the stopped cars. The other is that you are placed in the line of sight for stopped car contemplating making a right hand turn.

The legalization of right-on-red in the 70's (to save gas!) has caused some safety issues, one from cars not stopping for peds in the crosswalk, and also from changing the meaning of red light from "stop absolutely" to "roll right sometimes, if you think nobody's in the way."

Right on red after stopping didn't start in the seventies here. It was legal when I was six years old riding in the back seat of my father's 1960 Impala... the one with fins.

Unfortunately my bet is the "Green Bike Box" will become known as a "Kill Box"

"Unfortunately my bet is the "Green Bike Box" will become known as a "Kill Box"

Then they'll claim they aren't big enough.

Whole streets as bike only Green Streets is the end game here.

So instead of putting up a No Turn On Red sign and just enforcing that, Portland thinks up some new solution. Just like the flashing yellow left hand turn arrow. Nice.

after riding a bike for decades, there are three things i know about bicycling Portland:

Portland roadways are not designed for bicycles.

bicyclists are responsible for nearly every near-fatality i witness while riding, due to (a)attempts to pass on the right, (b)ride unlighted (or poorly) lighted, and (c)break routine traffic rules for signaling and lane changes.

i'm all for the "bike boxes". but in a city where bicyclists make up far less than 1% of all road use, i'd like equal time spent educating *all* road users, including bicyclists, motorcyclists, moped riders and auto drivers.

The flashing yellow left hand turn arrow is NOT a new Portland solution.
It's way late coming to Portland and Oregon.

Fearing invading the unused bike lane to turn right. I see that all over the place. No bikes and traffic backed up waiting because of the bike lane.

Funny, I never see that. Bike lanes might as well be invisible for all the attention motorists give them.

Also, I guess that the bike boxes will result in some slight traffic delays when people are not allowed to turn right on red. But, again, this seems a minor inconvenience to pay for potentially saving a life.

If you can't spare 30 seconds to follow the law, feel free to note which intersections will have bike boxes and take a different route to avoid them.

I might also add that I used to bike in the city of Portland. When I started driving a car again, I realized how dangerous it is and I decided I would never ride a bike on Portland streets again.

Really? Well the flashing yellow arrow was pretty new to me. I don't understand what's wrong with the solid green light and a Yield To Oncoming Traffic sign. I'm sure it has to do with the requirement for reading the sign, but that's just a guess.

The flashing yellow turn signal is a great improvement over the cycled green arrow, allowing left turns during the whole time approaching traffic is green lighted as well as when there is a green arrow.
Tualatin's major intersection at Boones Ferry and Tualatin Sherwood road has these new signals and they are a big improvement.

When turning right on a road with a parking/bike lane strip with no right turn lane, I always pull to the curb crossing the bike lane instead of turning from the middle of the street.

Not only is it 100% legal [provided there aren't any bikes-- and there never is any], but it also puts the car in front of a potential bike and prevents a bike from passing on the right.

Personally, I think bikes should stick to the sidewalk unless there are peds present, but that wouldn't be very politically correct.

Personally, I think bikes should stick to the sidewalk unless there are peds present, but that wouldn't be very politically correct.

More dangerous (cars are even less aware of bikes on the sidewalk) and illegal (in downtown Portland) to boot.

The whole thing about the flashing yellow is that in other states where I have lived, instead of a flashing yellow, you get the solid green light with a sign saying yield to oncoming traffic. That way you aren't stuck sitting there when nobody is coming from the other direction. Anyway, googled for flashing yellow arrow and found out about other states adopting it as well. Turns out it's a national push. Apparently it's shown to be safer. Really...or is it just safer because it is new? Time will tell.

Back to the bike lanes though. I am like Anthony. I have always pulled over the bike lane (checking for bikes first!) when going to make a right hand turn.

Too bad we couldn't force everyone to ride a bike around town for a day. I was aware of bikes sharing the road with me before. But I think I've become way more cautious after I spent last summer biking to work.

I live in Indiana now, and I really miss having bike lanes.

It seems like the safest time for motorists to make a right turn is during a red light because a cyclist in a bike lane should be stopping for the light anyway. Also, the motorist is forced to stop, making an abrupt and/or careless turn less likely. Making motorists wait for the light to turn green seems like a disadvantage for bike safety. During a green light is when cyclists are more likely to be riding through the intersection at high speeds vulnerable to right-turning automobiles. Maybe they should've banned rights turns on green instead.

Personally, I think bikes should stick to the sidewalk unless there are peds present, but that wouldn't be very politically correct.

Bike cops ride on sidewalks. I almost hit one downtown after a dark a few nights ago when he rode across the intersection in the crosswalk. We are both extremely lucky I saw him at the last minute out of the corner of my eye before turning.

"I've used the bike boxes in the Netherlands, where they are common. The two main advantages are that they give you an easy way to make a left, by being able to pull in front of the stopped cars"
So now my forward progress will be halted while the bicyclist that moved into the bike box waits for oncoming traffic to clear so they can make a left turn?
Let me get this straight, I can't make a right turn on red, I can't go straight and if I am turning left I'm stuck behind the same bicyclist that it took me two blocks to get passed before the red light.

@ McCoy -- it does seem like "right hooks" are more common during a green light.

The phenomenon of throw-away 2-bit (less than a sound bite) antisocial snarking looks like thrown away candy wrappers and hot dog wraps on the public park greens.

"...the problem of overeager bicyclists passing motor vehicles on the right ..." ['overeager drivers' being a figment of fantasy, of course]

"I am pretty sure the signals were green when the cyclists were killed according to the reports." ['pretty sure,' altho the reports didn't actually say, but somebody said they said something like that]

"...these "bike boxes" are not going to solve the problem of cyclists ..." [only sterility from long-distance pedalling can]

"Well that's ridiculous.... Call me a naysayer but I'm also not going to naively ... save one life either. ...always turn on (their) BS detector anytime a bike or rail transit activist is commenting ..." [yeah, awfully ridiculous]

"... bet ... the "Green Bike Box" ... as a "Kill Box"..." [bet the voice as a parroting dittohead]

"... Whole streets as bike only Green Streets is the end game here." [no duh. and your point is ...?]

There's more, flying in faster than anyone can swing a swatter; the early ones lay such buzz-bit eggs in the nutrient-rich soil of discussion, which incubate in the heap o' Comments, and then wriggle like maggots through the rest of the main mental meat.

Just demonstrating, in seeing each quote (and more) mouthed earlier in LIARS Larson's microphone, that there is but one, DNA-nucleus of rotten-germ breath in too much of the community's food for thought. Who knew? the epithet epidemiologist.

---

Anyway, bikes are ascendant and cars are goings bygone, as the bike box score attests. The oil guzzlers' beating-to-death of horse-sense 'buggy whips,' (as symbol of days passing), might reprise in bikers shouting, as they pedal past the out-of-gas autonomously motiveless, 'sell your stocks in spark plug manufacturers.' Oh, folks today ride horses, and pull buggies. And days ahead, ever some may drive cars ... and pull over, to let people of the world traffic past them.

Operating cars: How 'not hot' is it? [Bill, note the Carson-comedy formula.] It's so 'not hot' that the rightwingy-est editor of lumber-lore news in Albany, (where Where-house-'er? has sold the farm, I mean the papermill -- cashed out, recently), now Democratically Heralds the end of fuelled cars and the advent of energized travel, here: We need outlets, Hasso Hering editorial, March 24, 2008.
"...calling for more incentives to buy all-electric vehicles. ... Forward-looking employers, stores, restaurants and shopping centers will soon want to think about installing readily accessible outlets outside [for] electric-car-driving."

And the time is nigh to re-engineer the railroads, as diesel idles down and electric amps up. In that view, this article reads a whole different way, like writing on the wall: Blueprint being prepared to repair railroad, Mateusz Perkowski, Capital Press, 3/26/2008. [Note this is credit: Capital Press, not AP.]
The Port of Tillamook will develop a detailed blueprint that could potentially guide repairs on a 95-mile railroad severely damaged during last December's coastal storm.
"We want to go back and look at everything from A to Z," said Bob Van Borssum, the port's director.
...
An initial estimate by the Rick Franklin Corp. pegged the repair costs at roughly $26.6 million, but the port now wants a step-by-step engineering and environmental plan for getting the line back in commission, Van Borssum said.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency could potentially cover three-fourths ....

Here's a bone to gnaw on, before LIARS-mind maggots land on it: How about telling Blumenauer-Wu-Hooley to go FEMA themselves; paying with Lottery loot to build and run the railroad, and 'nationalize,' er, uh, 'Oregonize' the infrastructure as a property of this State, exempt from federal fingers filching in the pie, and from Hopeless Insecurity Real-ID surveillance screening (which prevents hijackers from diverting the train to another country), and we'd have ourselves a terrific, TGV - tres grande vista, electric trolley from Portland to the beach and back. for family outings. in between the haulin' boxcars that pay the freight. Uh, insert question mark here ? in sentence there.

The world as car drivers know it is changing. Rapidimento, presto. Slowing down, pulling over, lining up behind the green bike box'ers.

In the bike box-education effort, getting down-done LIARS dunces to heed the 'buggy whip' predicament they're in, a further learning -- fresh and new, a brain-tattoo, teach the kids it, too -- might be added: Look both ways twice, before crossing the street. Once for cars, a second time for bikes and kids and other living things.

Oh Tensk,
So many words so little sense.

"The world as car drivers know it is changing. Rapidimento, presto."

Yeah right, and Urban Renewal pays for itself?
SoWa is going as planned?
The Tram is a linchpin to 10,000 biotech jobs?
Light Rail will reduce congestion on the Interstate Bridge?
IKEA and the rest of the BIG BOX cluster/strip mall was spurred by Airport MAX?

The only increase in Bike use around here will come from imaginarianists who find new ways to count.

I think the real value of the box is the reminder that there are bicyclists in those bike lanes. I've had too many close calls when people have crossed the bike lane to pull into a parking lot or on to a street and its all because someone didn't check over their shoulder.

My hope for the box is that it serves as a constant reminder of cyclists and will help motorists develop the skills to check before turning (even when there is not a bike lane). Its not a skill many drivers have (myself included -- i have to remind myself check before every right turn), but its one we all have to develop.

"So now my forward progress will be halted while the bicyclist that moved into the bike box waits for oncoming traffic to clear so they can make a left turn?"

Yes James J this is true.
If you think of a bike as another "vehicle' wating to turn left then it's easier to wait till it turns - or do you have a problem waiting for a car in front of you to turn as well?

None, it seems from several of your posts that you have never biked the SW Terwilliger route. Because of bike lanes going north, the light at Barbur backs up traffic over ten blocks south of the Taylors Ferry Rd./Terwilliger intersection. For those of us wanting to just make a right turn at Barbur, bike lanes and the intersection design doesn't allow a right turn. So I crawl for over 15 minutes-more than a "minor inconvenience" as you wrote. Now there is discussion by Sam Adams to add bike boxes at this infamous intersection. Even more backups, and think of the pollution. Jack won't be able to even get to class on time at L&C.

I think the real value of the box is the reminder that there are bicyclists in those bike lanes.

you can't see the box if you're right behind it in a car (unless you're very tall or the car has a low profile.)

and let's be honest--the "box" doesn't do a dang thing about improving the driving or visual skills of either kind of driver. bicyclists *already* do what the box supposedly allows, for the most part.

the box, dear readers, is a publicity ploy, timed intentionally, and is documented to have little effect on road dynamic or fatalities in the Netherlands.

how about 5000 percent more bike lanes? that's what I'd like to see, and it'd do something real to increase safety and visibility.

However whoever chooses to imagine it, being vague but factual: not long ago, on my bike, I was hit side-on by a low-profile low-speed car. My body indented the hood and my head smashed out the windshield. Screeched brakes threw me over my bike (pretzeled), onto the pavement. I sat up, carried my bike, walked to the curb, and dealt with what happens then. Some amount of things I think about in some different ways, since then.

If possible: keep conscious.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I've been the victim of a hit-and-run by a car on my bike myself, but were you among the one half of one percent of Portland cyclists who choose to obey traffic signals, or was the accident your own fault ?

Since I QUIT listening to Lars, I'm a whole lot calmer about the bycyclist thing. Which is good since after another unpaid overtime day, I motor east across the Hawthorne bridge and right-hook to my home in Ladd's Addition. Shoot, bikes? Yeah, when I'm not dodging Tri-Met, I've got time to look out for the Bi-wheelers. Since I'm on Hawthorne you best watch for Trans-wheelers as well. Rasta-wheelers need no helmets, mon. As you near Ladd Circle we find uncontrolled squirrels proofing Natural Selection. After observing these three groups, my self esteem goes way up. Hello Mensa? Boy, I tell ya. I share the road. Sheesh.

Two OTHER things. Should we be emulating The Netherlands? Not only in bike boxes, but hemp economy and kiddy-porn mayors too? We might have more success in Iraq if we followed the wooden shoe Imperialist example that was set in Africa and S. America in the past. Bet those guys flatten a few villages and chopped off various body parts to bring "peace" to the indigenous.

BTW, if a bicyclist and a Toyota Prius collide, who is at fault? Like Victoria sez, I'm just askin'.

The reality is: Cars are bigger than bikes. No matter how many safety features we set up, no matter how much we educate drivers of both cars and bikes, no matter how many signs, lights, marketing efforts, bike boxes, bike lanes and other seemingly helpful solutions we put in place the reality remains: Cars are bigger than bikes. People are only human and they make mistakes. They turn at the wrong time, they get distracted, they are impatient, they skrew up. Tragic accidents will still happen, and the biker will always lose.

I also fear this sceanrio: Impatient drivers stuck behind a bike box will decide to bypass the intersection and cut thru a nearby corner parking lot to make their right turn quicker. Now, we'll have shoppers/walkers on sidewalks and in parking lots run down by drivers trying to beat the bike box system. And, cars are bigger than people.

Save yourself, I guess.

"If you think of a bike as another "vehicle' wating to turn left then it's easier to wait till it turns - or do you have a problem waiting for a car in front of you to turn as well?"
The problem I have is that most bicyclists demand vehicle status only when it is convenient.
The root of the problem with motorists making "right hook turns", which in the motor vehicle handbook is called a "right hand turn", is that when the BTA lobbied the state legislature to change the law so that bicyclists could legally pass other vehicles on the right, they went counter to all the universally recognized and accepted safe rules of the road.
Furthermore by declaring bike lanes to be vehicle lanes and prohibiting motorists from merging into those lanes prior to making a right hand turn creates a situation that is equivalent to making any illegal right hand turn from the center of the road, the results of which have and will continue to be demonstrated.

James J

I'm both a regular bike commuter and a driver. The problem of right turns is one I'm familiar with from both sides. Having been in situations as driver and biker.

The road regulations treat bikes as vehicles in most instances - there are exceptions. I agree with you that there are cyclists that don't follow either the law or 'common sense'. I see them everyday as I go to work. I also see motor vehicles daily that run red lights and make unsignalled and other dangerous turns.

My point in thinking of a bike as a vehicle is that it allows you to relax a bit and remember that all of us are human beings and our mode of transportation does not change that.
Be happy

If the law views bicycles as vehicles is most instances, why is it their operators aren't licensed, registered, and insured ?

If the law views bicycles as vehicles is most instances, why is it their operators aren't licensed, registered, and insured ?

This is a good question. As a driver and a cyclist who doesn't want to be involved in either end of a vehicular homicide, I would be happy to submit to registration (I'm licensed and insured as it is). File this good question along with equally good ones about unlicensed, uninsured, untrained and impaired motorists.

File this good question along with equally good ones about unlicensed, uninsured, untrained and impaired motorists.

Apples and A**holes, Allan.

The law currently requires operators of motor vehicles to be licensed and insured. Whether or not operators of motor vehicles choose to obey the existing laws is another issue.

There are no such requirements for the operators of non-motorized vehicles.

At the very least, with licensing one might be able to identify bicycular(!) scofflaws and report them. That would be only fair, IMO.

If you want me to share the road, you should share the load.

If possible: keep conscious.

That'd be my advice too, Skwat.

That's not how it is, cc. What I want doesn't matter. The law requires you to "share the road" with bicycles. Live with it.

Cabbie: my bad, saved by the Graces. By this leonine's count, that's 6 or 7 down, 3 or 2 to go. There've been spots; I've been in them.

But I beat the traffic citation rap (out of beaucoup bucks), and -- just as other voices are saying -- for the dodgy legalistic dual logic of two-wheelers: In the bike lane it's a vehicle, in the crosswalk it's a pedestrian, (as I was, 'walking' against 'Don't Walk' ... who knew? that was a very low-profile 1-ton ballistic, a skateboard with windshield). And the cop got his copy confused. Tsk-tsk. The Court was quite disproving, harrumph, egads, and isn't well endorsing this practice of defendants bringing internet-retrieved chapter and verse and letter of the pertaining statutes, printed out, into evidence.

There were medical billings (but no ambulance, lose the damnambulance), and my auto insurance policy paid them promptly. And my premiums then doubled, for 'having an accident' -- but I didn't have 'an accident' and there's no report. Okay, then, for 'filing a claim.' Sheesh, not okay, then. (By the way, if your car is parked in your driveway, and a tree falls on it or other certain damages to it, your auto insurance policy does not cover that. On your property, regardless the 'property' that gets damaged, coverage must be claimed under a 'homeowner's' policy.)

Maybe there's a clue found in my tale, though, for enforcing insurance on bike riders: Make the bike the 'second' vehicle of the owner.

As (being in) a vehicle, my auto insurance covered the case. But I wasn't a vehicle, I was a pedestrian, and my auto insurance did not cover the case. My agent and me, we've gotten to know each other a little mo' better than we knew before. C'est la vie. Ou alors, la vie sixieme ou septieme.

---
If possible: keep conscious.

"That'd be my advice too" -- cc

Well, ya' run whatcha brung, and work with whatcha have, cc. You can't go to life with the mind you'd like, you have to go to life with the mind you have.