I guess you bash Obama now if you want Hillary to be the candidate; but later otherwise.

There is no question that the vaunted Clintstone attack machine is gearing up big-time to go after Obama and probably Edwards as well.

Given Hillary's focus on "experience" counting, much of her past experience includes orchestrating the candidate R&D and attack machines to support Bill in past elections, both state and national.

The good thing is that I believe most people now know this and will see right through it, further undermining her as the status quo candidate.

Swiftboat II.None of the Swiftboat claims were shown to be false.All Kerry has to do is release his military records and the swiftboat vets could be proven to be liars.Aint gonna happen,MC

Oh well, T Boone Pickens welshed on his million dollar bet, so we can see him doing it again on Obama or Clinton.
Repugs seem to have a knack of avoiding truth and reality. How about dirt on Bob Perry, the ringleader.

Bradley's come aboard the Obama express. Edwards demonstrates solidarity in the debates. Lots of independents in NH. hmmmm. Momentum builds. Any last minute dirt had better be explosively relevant and recent. Otherwise the desperation it conveys is devastating ---to Hillary. Even if the dirt sticks to Obama, the late announcement smacks of selfish opportunism, ushering Edwards into the driver's seat. That scenario works just fine for moi. feeling hopeful

T Boone Pickens welshed on his bet?Could you show me the source of your info. Last I heard Kerry didn't have the guts to confront TBP,MC

T Boone Pickens welshed on his bet?Could you show me the source of your info. Last I heard Kerry didn't have the guts to confront TBP,MC

What planet are you on?

My God...who cares about T-Boone and Kerry? Old news. What we need to know now is the validity of the claims against Obama. And c'mon...its not "swiftboating" when you just dont like the accusations.
But honestly, it just sounds like the crap all politicians are up to their neck in...and Im sure there are tons of skeletons like this in all the other candidate's closets too.

The allegations about Obama's real estate dealings in Illinois are not new. They're even on his Wikipedia page. Whether there's anything to them is another matter.

NY Times' Frank Rich, an observant expressive critic whom I learn from, offers this Sunday summation. He has perfect pitch in the tone of the day, but hardly prescient and I fault his omission of a Big Picture background context, or orchestrated melody, which would give depth for the profiles he riffs out.

I ^snipped^ into it where Frank echoes my thought that the clueless current GOP-faced names -- candidates because they 'didn't get the memo' not to bother running to an election that the GOP fascists mean to void -- all put together don't add up to one candidate yet.

They Didn’t Stop Thinking About Tomorrow, by Frank Rich, January 6, 2008 -- © 2007 The New York Times

... The NBC News analyst Chuck Todd may be on to something when he half-jokingly suggested last week that there was a 5 percent chance that the G.O.P. may have to find a nominee not yet in the race.

Mr. Obama is in a far better position in his more-or-less ideologically united party than Mr. Huckabee is among Republicans, but, of course, he could lose for a myriad of reasons. Mr. Obama could make some world-class mistakes; the Clinton machine could land some attacks more devastating than its withering critique of his kindergarten paper.

But if Clinton operatives know how to go negative, they don’t have the positive balance of a 21st-century message. Iowa confirmed that the message the campaign has used to date - experience - is D.O.A. in post-Bush America.

Mitch C,
Do you consider the soldiers who volunteered to go to Iraq heroes? Not the leaders who sent them, but the soldiers themselves. How about the soldiers who fought in Vietnam? Aren't they heroes too for going through that?
Well, then, what's your point?
I'm sure you're not claiming John Kerry never went to Vietnam are you? Are you saying he was never in a combat zone in Vietnam? If he was, isn't that worth something? Isn't that worth a lot?

This thing about the military records is a classic case of framing the issue. The fact is there are military records so where's the respect?

Bill-
I think you missed the point. The Swift Boat Veterans never claimed Kerry didn't serve or didn't put himself in harm's way, they just challenged some of Kerry's contentions with respect to his service. Kerry was never able to disprove the Vets. And after promising to release his military records to support his claims (or at least refute SB Vets' claims), he still has not done so. But I agree with Jon, its all old news. This whole digression started because of Jack's poor choice of a title.

Hey McD
Three purple hearts in three months without a stitch is not a hero it's a politician. What's your theory on the inside 9/11 job?

Before the Bush team was done with Kerry, his military service was a liability, while whatever W did was a positive for him. That took a mountain of spin, and it goes on to this day. It's done on both sides but the Conservative GOP movement of this country is the worst. You mention 9/11. Another group that got swiftboated was made up of 9/11 widows. As Ann Coulter wrote, “I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much.” Of course the difference between Kerry and the widows was they fought back, while Kerry spent the summer of the swiftboat not reacting. The 9/11 widows forced W to have a 9/11 commission - such as it was. Remember, the White House fought against the idea but were forced to cave in. Then they tried putting Henry Kissinger in charge. Then they only would let W appear if Cheney could go with him. I'll never understand how real conservative patriots could go near George W. There's something irrational and youthful about it, which is why I attribute it to puppy love.

I'm getting the same emails. We'll have the soundbites on the show Monday.

Ah, yes. Judicial Watch. The Scaife-funded folks. Scaife of course the Mellon-money heir who gave our country the Arkansas Project, which unleashed Ken Starr on his various witch hunts, after which Scaife rewarded Starr by endowing a new school of public policy at Pepperdine, to which the erstwhile "independent" counsel was appointed as dean. Me? I won't be linking to their crap.

Bill,
I have to ask What are your views on CFR?

Senator Clinton is going to stay far away from Senator Obama's real estate transactions. They're old news, like her Whitewater investment and her flyer in the commodities market -- two parallels that will undoubtedly come up if she presses the issue.

Bill knows funny. That Bush tried to give the 9-11 commission to Henry Kissinger is one of the most singularly hilarious moments in recent memory. Well, the Harriet Miers nomination was also good jaw-dropping comedy, but the prevaricatory presentation of Kissinger—America's only true war criminal if ever we have one—stands absolutely apart for its determined, motivated, insulting absurdity. I will always think of it as the emblem of the Bush years. It may take a while to explain the joke to my grandkids, but the payoff is sure to be worth it. Explaining, on the other hand, how the country's laws and principles were systematically, deliberately vandalized by a small cardre of radicals determined to establish permanent, single-party rule in America—in America!—while self-proclaimed patriots whinged about John Kerry's purple hearts isn't going to be worth the same amount of time. It's too depressing, too discouraging, and not funny at all.

It,s what Kerry did after he came back I find reprehensible,MC

Mitch,
I hitchhiked over 25,000 miles around America starting when I was 17. One day I got a ride in Arizona with a young man who had just returned from Vietnam. He did not want to talk about what he had seen. As the day faded into darkness, and we were deep into New Mexico, he started telling me things. It wasn't before a congressional committee - it was just to one hitchhiker, someone he would never see again. The first sentence was, "The My Lai Massacre was a joke." He proceeded to tell me of the atrocities that can happen when normal men are put into an impossible situation. The same people who attacked Kerry for his service in Vietnam, were really offended that he testified about what he saw and heard there - testified in an effort to get the war stopped. Now of course, Vietnam is seen as a huge national mistake - but back then the same sort of things we hear from Bush supporters about Iraq were routinely heard across America. I suspect when it's safe in 20 years, they'll acknowledge that Iraq was a mistake too.
Each time the critics wrapped themselves in the flag and professed that they were outraged for the sake of the military. They still say Kerry was a traitor to the troops - the same people who attacked him for some medals he received as one of the troops.
Meanwhile, they support a President who sent thousands of young men and women to die in Iraq as a reaction to 9/11 - to die seeking revenge in a country that wasn't involved. But the lowest most revealing part is when the White House refuses to let pictures out of the returning coffins. And the reason they give? To protect the privacy of the soldiers' families. Even in death the troops are used in GOP spin. There isn't enough shame in all the world to cover what Bush and his supporters have done.
But wait: They support the troops so it's okay.

Bill,

Kerry didn't testify before Congress about what he saw in Vietnam. He testified about things he DIDN'T see - itty bitty difference. And citing Ann Coulter as representative of "the Conservative GOP movement" doesn't help you make your case.

Butch,
You're doing it again. I said "saw and heard". You're arguing against things you made up. It's old and it's tired.
Ann Coulter isn't a representative of the Conservative GOP movement? Careful, you'll pull a spin muscle. Why not go to your other move and blame her on Bill Clinton?

Go! Bill Go!
You tell it like it is.
For those of us who lived through the Viet Nam era and are now watching our sons and daughters fight another horrible, useless war, this time is especially painful.
My now 96 year old mother cried when we attached Iraq, and said, "Oh no! I thought I would not live to see the US in yet another fruitless war".
Her curent goal is to out live 'w's presidency.
According to my count down calender we now have 379 days left!

Nightline refuted ALL SwiftBoat claims by going to the village in Vietnam and interviewing the people who were there that day.

www.abcnews.com for that one.

Also, super sharp Swiftie Al French was SUSPENDED from his job and DIVORCED by his wife after the world found out that Al lied about screwing all them tweaky dames in the Clackamas County Prosecutor's Office.

As well as lying about Kerry.

Poor Al French... Swiftboated... by his own pack of lies.

I love it so!!!!!!

Well, I'm not really sure what a nabob is but ok...

Bill good man, it's wasting your resuscitation breath speaking Truth, trying to straighten the mean minds of LIARS -- leave them to die. The method is as futile as LIARS telling lies trying to bend your mind, to accept their programmed perverted point of view.

Funny when the LIARS repeat their lies, insisting, darn LOUDLY inSISTing.

NOW: [ NYTimes.COM/aponline/world/AP-Iran-US-Navy.html ]
Iran Plays Down Gulf Incident With US, January 7, 2008; TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- ... The Pentagon said that in the incident early Sunday, five small Iranian boats repeatedly ''charged'' U.S. warships in the Gulf's Hormuz Strait and dropped boxes in the water. ...
The U.S. ... calling the incidident ''the most serious provocation of its sort'' in the Gulf. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

THEN: [ en.Wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident ]
Gulf of Tonkin Incident, August 2 and 4, 1964; Although ... the first attack, on the destroyer Maddox, was in fact carried out after the Maddox fired first .... The second supposed attack almost certainly did not occur. ... a report released in 2005 by the National Security Agency, also indicated that the second attack most likely did not occur.... The outcome of the incident was the passage by Congress of ... justification for escalating American involvement in the Vietnam Conflict.

BEFORE THEN: [ en.Wikipedia.ORG/wiki/First_Indochina_War ]
Mutual Defense Assistance Act (1950-1954) - At the beginning of the war, [ Vietnam War of Independence from being colony of imperial France ] the U.S. was neutral in the conflict because of opposition to imperialism and consequently to help colonial empires regain their power and influence, because the Viet Minh had recently been their [ U.S. ] allies .... Then the U.S. government gradually began supporting the French in their war effort, primarily through Mutual Defense Assistance Act, as a means of stabilizing the French Fourth Republic in which the French Communist Party - created by Ho Chi Minh himself - was a significant political force. ... Central Intelligence Agency covert operations - Two CIA pilots (CAT) were killed in action during the siege of Dien Bien Phu in 1954.[45] Twenty four CIA pilots supplied the French Union garrison .... The Geneva Conference on July 21, 1954 recognized the 17th parallel as a "provisional military demarcation line" temporarily dividing the country into two zones ... The Geneva Accords promised elections in 1956 to determine a national government for a united Vietnam. However, the United States and the State of Vietnam refused to sign the document. ... When the elections were prevented from happening by the Americans and the South ... war gradually escalated into the Second Indochina War, more commonly known as the Vietnam War in the West ....

BOTTOM LINE: When the maze of LIES and FALSE details is sorted out, CIA provocated the Vietnam war after 1952 election (IKE and Nixon), when Republicans switched to Allen Dulles directing CIA, (who Truman refused to put in charge there). The CIA motive was full-employment job-security for CIA ... invent enemies or be out of a job for supersneakysecret 'license to kill' (which was another Dulles invention -- unlawful, unconstitutional, anti-democracy: facism --- Dulles and his buddy ('52-elected) Senator Prescott Bush liked Naziism and aided Hitler and smuggled smart leading Nazi officer refugees back to US and into CIA), spy business by plagiarizing 'license to kill' from Dulles's former-OSS buddy Ian Fleming's book.

CIA: Illegal from the start. Started needless Vietnam War. Still going in Iraq, Pakistan, and bloodlusting to get a second chance at Iran after blowing it the first time ('54) CIA invaded Iran, abducted democratically elected Mossadeq, and installed dictator Shah.

CIA managed the Swift Boaters against Kerry; proof: the long-lost 'intelligence' which magically appeared. (Kerry, remembering being in the Senate when the CIA anthrax mail arrived, shut up.) And only CIA can send Swift Boaters II, if again it goes operational, against either Obama or Hillary -- as discussed here [ Alternet.ORG/election08/72696/ ] The Return of the SwiftBoaters, By Christopher Hayes, The Nation, January 4, 2008.

---
Epilog: Topsecret CAT pilots over Dien Bien Phu, (cited above), included G. Herbert W. Bush, WWII dishonored bomber-flyboy, [ Tarpley.NET/bush6.htm ], whose daddy got him the CIA job. [ Voxfux.COM/features/bush_world_class_criminal.html ] And ultimately, Herbert is Eternal Hero King of CIA with his gold-plated name emblazoned frontal on the Headquarters building in Langley. Many observers have noticed his imbecile son occupies The Fright House presidency unlawfully.

Agnew was known for his tough criticisms of ... anti-Vietnam War activists.... with unusual, often alliterative epithets, some of which were coined by White House speech-writers William Safire and Pat Buchanan, including "nattering nabobs of negativism" (written by Safire), "pusillanimous pussyfooters", and "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history". He once characterized a group of opponents as "an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals."

Obama bashing:

On Fox News' The Live Desk, GOP strategist called Obama "anti-American"
Summary: On Fox News' The Live Desk, Republican strategist Christine O'Donnell responded to host Martha MacCallum's question about whether Republicans would prefer to run against Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton or Sen. Barack Obama by asserting, "I would prefer Barack Obama because he is so liberal, that -- he's anti-American."