Umm, maybe I'm dense but I don't get the Jammin' 95 reference.

The solutions to your teenage problems are gang emulation and gun violence.

I don't think Lincoln City even gets Jammin 95.

Normally, your posts are logical and well thought out. Many times, I don't agree with your point of view, but you come across in a way that makes sense and helps me understand the other side of an issue.

This post, on the other hand, is ridiculous. What's next, blaming video games for this as well? Jammin 95 and the music that station plays does not show that gang emulation and gun violence are the solutions. Maybe, he is in a gang. Maybe, the group he runs with at school are "thugs" and act out like this. I'm not condoning the action, your point is just ridiculous.

"thugs" John, are you serious?

You're going use a pop culture term to discount Jack's reference to source of pop culture? Nice work. NOT! -Borat

Maybe he streamed 95.5 over the computer to Lincoln City?

Its not rediculous, its the "hip-hop" culture. Jack is right on. It may not have been the cause of the shooting, but surely its the cause of his attitude when that picture was taken.

Unfortunately, that nutty station is DJing my kids' prom this year, at Sunset HS.

And the fact that he is illegal just adds fuel to the fire.

i dont recommend anyone do this, but i just looked up the lyrics to the top 6 songs on the jammin' 95 playlist (got bored, woulda done more). every single one of them is a love song. every one.

oh yea, no, i forgot. one of them is about how awesome the artist who wrote the song is.

how did he get the gun?
where's the person that supplied him with it?

how did he get the gun?
where's the person that supplied him with it?

My guess, since he is a minor, he didnt get it anywhere legal. But judging from his residency status, and his current problems, the law isnt an issue with him.

You can bet he didn't buy it legally.

Hey, dont worry, if recent news is any indication, he'll probably be back in school by the the end of the week. Might even make it to prom.

I think that my devotion to the study of the tax code makes me more likely to shoot someone than my constant listening of Tupac, and Eminem.

Devotion to any such arcana invariably leads to a sad end.

I dunno, I think one Eminem tune could push me over the edge.

"Normally, your posts are logical and well thought out. Many times, I don't agree with your point of view, but you come across in a way that makes sense and helps me understand the other side of an issue."

I couldn't agree more....

"This post, on the other hand, is ridiculous. "

Again, couldn't agree more.

Jack, might you want to rethink this statement? In my mind, what you wrote completely undermines a lot of your hard-earned credibility.

I listen to Bob Marley (and Eric Clapton) a lot, but I've never shot a sheriff....should we blame KGON, Charlie, The BUZZ, NRK and KUFO for anyone who shoots a police officer/sherriff?

People have been exacting revenge on ex-lovers, etc. for years. I don't think Jammin 95 or any radio station could take credit for instigating this. Unless of course they have a segment called, "shoot your ex's lover in the face Mondays", then I would be inclined to agree. However, I think there is more at play than the music and DJ's at the local radio station.

In my mind, what you wrote completely undermines a lot of your hard-earned credibility.

Speaking of credibility, the song you cite has NONE of the gratuitous violence and objectification of women that is endemic to much of hip-hop/rap. It even includes the line: "If I am guilty I will pay." - not a line you'll hear from Tupac.

The "behavioral model" espoused by the hip-hop/rap industry is WAY different from that of past genres' themes of rebellion, disillusionment and angst.

Cause or symptom, the "culture" is poison.

You can imagine what the reaction would have been in the '50s and '60s if there were radio stations much of whose music glorified the Mafia. If Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra had been singing, "If you mess with me, I'm going to get my gun and kill you," it wouldn't have lasted very long.

If you let that stuff wash over teenage boys long enough, it affects their behavior.

tupac has a lot of political messages in his songs that would line up pretty decently with what people think around here.

he's not a good example of trashy valueless violent hip hop.

there is more then a fair share of crappy hip hop artists (just like with any genre). but bringing up tupac in that context in front of anyone who knows anything about hip hop will not score you points.

I spent all day yesterday listening to most of Tupac's oeuvre; he probably inherited as much trouble as he created in his short life, but what a talent. That kid had heart.

"If Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra had been singing, 'If you mess with me, I'm going to get my gun and kill you,' it wouldn't have lasted very long."

What about Johnny Cash? Didn't he spend the first 15 years of his career singing about killing women and drug abuse? "Cocaine Blues" springs to mind. Woody Guthrie even performed a cover of that one. Wikipedia tells me the song was first written and recorded by someone named TJ Arnall in 1947. I could mine the depths of country and blues artists from the '40s and '50s for further examples, if you'd like.

Frank and the Rat Pack were hardly role models, what were their drinking, womanizing and cruel jokes during their Vegas days. Didn't Frank even divorce Mia Farrow because she cut her hair short and wanted to act in Rosemary's Baby? What a classy guy.

Violence in popular music is nothing new. Even the Beatles did it. "Run for Your Life," ("I'd rather see you dead little girl than to be with another man") "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," etc.

The tripe now played on 95.5 probably only induces vomiting. Take a listen if you can stand it. It's barely in the same genre as the most violent rap of the late 80s/early 90s.

Someone wake me up when the next Tribe called Quest comes out.

I don't think the Italian-American kids were listening to Johnny Cash. And I'm not talking about Frank's marriages or cutesy "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." The cr*p that's being sold to the teenagers today is in an entirely different league. And it's contributing to senseless gun violence among young people such as what just went down in Lincoln City. Guys like Paul Allen who make money off it disgust me. The fools who actively defend it are just sad.

Well, for what it's worth, I'm not trying to defend this corner of pop culture. I'm trying shine a light on the supposedly negative influence pop culture has had on teenagers going back at least 60 years. While Italian-American kids growing up in Brooklyn in the '50s might not have been listening to Johnny Cash, you can bet they were hustling down to the movie house to watch James Cagney run around with a tommy gun.

How much of a difference is there between, say, the film noir movies of the '50s and the rap music of today? Sure, rap is more explicit but both glorify violence, hustling and womanizing. While it may have played a part, pop culture didn't hypnotize this kid into committing this crime anymore than it did to inspire future mafiosos in the '50s or kids to gobble up all the drugs they could get their hands on in the late '60s. There are other factors that probably played a heavier role than rap music in this case, perhaps bad parenting, a lack of a proper role model, an unchecked mental condition and/or easy access to a weapon.

Entertainment is just like booze, gambling or any other vice. The vast majority of society can enjoy it responsibly while a small segment can't. Should we close down Vegas because some people become gambling addicts? Should we lock up bartenders because a few people drink and drive?

James Cagney run around with a tommy gun.

Yes, but the final message in those movies was always that what he was doing was wrong. The message on Jammin' 95 is that what's being rapped about is good.

Entertainment is just like booze, gambling or any other vice.

Yes, but there are various depths to which you can sink. Gangster rap on the radio is one of our society's all-time lows.

Right but what's the final message of these rappers lives? Look at what happened to Biggie and Tupac. It's fun to be a thug in a video game but living that kind of life always leads to a bad end. It's like Tony Soprano said in an episode a few seasons back: "There's only two places guys like me wind up: dead or in prison."

While I don't keep up with rap music post '96 or so, I'm pretty sure much of it today promotes the pimp lifestyle: being rich, having lots of girls around, buzzing around in SUVs, being a media mogul,having a clothing line and hit records, etc. As someone else pointed out, the top songs on Jammin' 95.5's current countdown are all love songs.

Just think of what kids will be listening to and emulating in 30 years! Regardless, I think the music of the '60s and the message of "tune in, turn on and drop out" did more damage to American society than the rappers of the last 30 years.

And I think you're wrong. So I guess we wasted each other's time today.

yeah, it's obvious that something somebody says (or sings) has no impact on the emotions or resulting actions of others...

just like a blog, right?

And I think you're wrong in thinking that mere music was the # 1 cause of this tragedy. As they say, we'll have to agree to disagree. Cheers.

thinking that mere music was the # 1 cause of this tragedy.

GONG!

That's the sound we hear when I get criticized for something I never said.

You actually made some good points. Surely you can go out on a stronger note than that.

As a responsible firearm owner, I want to know who supplied this kid with a handgun, and I want to see that person's ass thrown into jail for a long, long, time.

Jack, you're bordering on Tipper Goredom here..there's really not much at all on 95.5 that sounds like what you're describing. It's REALLY stupid stuff (mostly pimptacular) and has completely ruined 98% of hip-hop IMHO...but kids that are listening to the truly violent stuff aren't getting it through Clear Channel.

I, unfortunately, did my research today on this via car stereo. Now I'll go puncture my ears with Q-tips to make it go away.

That's the sound we hear when I get criticized for something I never said.

Sure. Look at your original post and tell me it's intuitive to read it *any* other way.

I guess I'll have to give the unspeakable garbage of Jammin' 95 another listen to see if they've changed their ways.

"No. 1 cause"? No. Never said that.

Hmmm...I'm not sure I can really mount a plausible argument against the 'unspeakable garbage' tag.

I think we agree on many things.

"Here's what Jammin' 95 produces."

Isn't that what you said, Jack? That the music played by this station somehow causes kids to become killers? If not the music, what else would you have been referring to? All the Outback Steakhouse and payday loan ads the station runs?

Again, how can Jammin 95 produce violence in Lincoln City when it isn't even BROADCAST TO LICOLN CITY?

Another Oregonian victimized by an illegal. Had enough yet?