Now I'm lost without a map, as I have no strict orders from daddy Bojack. I guess that means I can do whatever I want while he's away. Woohoo! Party in the comments section! Don't break anything valuable.

You're kidding, right? RIGHT?

HEY, the boss’s away, lets play public policy trivia:

1. Which carries more passengers EVERY DAY, MAX in Portland or Amtrac nationally. (Data is at http//www.amtrak.com/pdf/AnnualReportCongress021705.pdf & http://www.trimet.org/inside/ridership.htm)

2. Which costs more: the $1.2 billion proposed light rail loop from the expo center to Vancouver, then East to I205 & down I205 to Gateway. Or: buying a Pearl district condo for every rider of that proposed rail loop that WOULD NOT ride the alternatively proposed $14 million upgraded bus system. (Data is at www.i-5partnership.com/reports/q3.html, a government site)

3.How much do extended (bubble) curbs reduce pedestrian accidents?

4a. How many lives are saved by speed bumps reducing traffic speed?
4b. How many lives are lost by speed bumps reducing emergency vehicle speed? (Emergency vehicle delays do cost lives and property as fires spread very quickly after a few minutes, heart attack victims chances of survival diminish rapidly after a few minutes)

5. When you double the population density of an area , how much does driving PER PERSON have to drop to keep traffic congestion the same? How much does it actually drop? What is the result on congestion. Compare your answer with “conventional wisdom”.

6. Planners like to mention “eyes on the street” provided by high density housing built close to the street.( “Eyes on the street”, supposedly to reduce street crime.) What category of people are LEGALLY REQUIRED to keep their eyes on the street?

7. Which is cheapest:
A) increasing infrastructure to accommodate more people in an area by ripping up the street, digging down to, removing (and disposing of) old pipes then installing new ones, covering the trench and repaving the street. Repeat for phone and power lines. All the time clogging up traffic.
Or
B) digging trench in vacant land, plopping a pipe in the trench and covering the trench.

8) How does the actual cost of a MAX ride compare to taxi fare per mile.

9) What pollutants are generated by MAX. Hint: think electric

10) If you have a job further away from home, you probably did it because it pays more than a closer one or it was the only one available. All other things being equal you would choose a job close to home wouldn’t you? Question: which gives you the most job opportunities, in terms of commuting radius (IE: number of jobs to choose from) in a fixed length of time: Trimet or a car?

Jack: Aren’t your proud of me - no mention of property taxes.

Thanks
JK

dear jack, my signature caps key?

ok, but who shall i tell to blog while you are gone about another high risk grouphome that i got a call about in the cully neighborhood?

randy just hangs up on citizen's that call if they say anything he doesn't like and you act if you never ever heard of one.

see jack, no caps ...period.

I guess that means I can do whatever I want while he's away.

Damn kids.

Oh, and Jack Roberts, please run for something.

All the roads lead back to a classless society, and the hormony that ideal should bring. This is embodied in the notion of equal privileges and immunities. Disharmony is not introduced solely at the cusp where one can find the existence of invidious discrimination. I would rather whine about gifts to banks and corporations. To that end here is a link to "Uncommon Thought Journal" where the author whines about the "'personhood' of corporations" but links it only to the right, not the left. The real threat is unconstrained government power without regard to who has that power.

Oh . . . don't take a watch on your trip. It might remind you of "civilization" (kind of a contradictory word meaning man made law to rule others) rather than let you simply experience nature. Enjoy your trip.

I wish only that I could shake free from the shackles of so-called civilization; even if only for a day or two, without a sense of guilt.

(Signed, Nature Boy.) (A writing instructor from the past would understand this signature, because she coined it to describe me. Not PERS.)

"show pity on the misguided among us."

Sounds like the general confession in the Episcopal book of common prayer.

Is he gone?

Cos I know where he keeps the liquor.

lurk lurk lurk

I'm Telling!

There is plenty to slam some of you about, especially you Randy Leonard, but one crucial issue is beyond all of our jabs.

Our school reform. I am watching the current debate out here and find it stunning that some are defending this calamity reform.

No one should be defending our school reform.

If you want more money for schools you better help rebuild credibility and support right now by getting rid of what is clearly souring the public and our public school system.

I may even be nicer to Randy if this reform dies the quick death it deserves.

Our state has to demonstrate that something, anything can actually be fixed.

Here is a good ooportunity to do just that.

If we can't fix this obvious monumental failure we might as well forget about everything else.

Oh my God- I think I've just had my 15 seconds of fame!! Have fun, "Daddy Bojack"!!

JK: nice list. I'd provide an opposite one debunking the lifestyle you so seem to idolize, but there are too many books and studies that already do that for me. I'm sure you've read them all.

So now we have two failed systems of living, yours and the New Urbanists. Care to propose a new one?

Jack Peek,

You can post a group home whine on my site.

I live in the Cully neighborhood.

And . . . my mom was one of the people that were strongly pushing for group homes for the mentally ill some 30 years ago, back when new drugs made institutionalization of those affected an uneconomic absurdity. She can claim to be one of the founders of NAMI.

You can continue reading . . . here "Cully Group Home -- Hum? And Jack B Goes Fishing." (My post is less than 1000 words, so I can save on MY bandwidth.)

Posted by Gordo: JK: nice list. I'd provide an opposite one debunking the lifestyle you so seem to idolize,

Do you mean freedom and equality?

Posted by Gordo: but there are too many books and studies that already do that for me. I'm sure you've read them all.

Are any of them credible, with real data? Or do you mean Marx, et al?

Posted by Gordo: So now we have two failed systems of living, yours

What failure? Our lifestyle has produced the longest life span and healthiest people in history. Most who are in poverty have color TV and no-one starves (I mean like those pictures of real starving people in Africa). We use less energy per unit of output than ever before. Our poor live better than the rich of 100 years ago. We have eliminated one serious disease from the earth (smallpox) and reduced others to small occasional outbreaks (polio, whooping cough, TB and many others)

The real dangers that we face are ignorance such as: people who advocate that we no longer treat water (killed a bunch of people in South America).

Maybe the biggest danger is those who want to use government power to rebuild society to some vision. Of course the problem is that the vision is untested and probably would be a failure. Remember the last century had a vision of “to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability” Got a few hundred million people killed. A vision of racial purity got another few hundred million killed. (Yes Hitler had a vision AND THE PEOPLE BOUGHT OFF ON IT) This is very dangerous stuff.

Yes there is abuse by corporations, but they never had the ability to put people in concentration camps or send them to gas chambers. Only government has that power.

Posted by Gordo: and the New Urbanists. Care to propose a new one?

How about our current lifestyle? It has worked since the founding fathers did the declaration of independence and the bill of rights. Yes they are not perfect, but they are better than anything else in their time. We successfully updated them to remove a lot of inequality. I think all we really need now is a set of judges that can actually READ the bill of rights, particularly things like “congress shall make no law” and “shall not infringe”.

Free people can do anything!!! (Or do you have a problem with freedom for others)
Thanks JK

Ego te absolvo.

Dear Jack: Since it's a different day and it's the SOS, (a family blog) FORGIVE ME, I know what I write about.

May 13, 2005
Cully Group Home -- Hum? And Jack B Goes Fishing.
Jack Bog goes fishing, leaving local whiners without guidance and discipline.

Jack Peek,

You can post a group home whine on my site.

I live in the Cully neighborhood.

And . . . my mom was one of the people that were strongly pushing for group homes for the mentally ill some 30 years ago, back when new drugs made institutionalization of those affected an uneconomic absurdity. She can claim to be one of the founders of NAMI.

I still believe that the economic factors are more dispositive (in aggregate) of whether someone that is genetically predisposed to vulnerability to onset of mental disease actually succumbs. (Wherein I could correlate government waste and inefficiency as a contributing to the relative, in aggregate, number of persons who's brain synapses go bonkers.

I think that the interface between mental illness and criminality might be partially explained by the last resort act of dining-and-dashing as a means of compelling the government to provide treatment that would otherwise be denied. I suppose that when that is not extreme enough then they can always escalate. . . and then they get to meet you, the opposition that says it is unsafe to have people who are wacko, and that they ought to be institutionalized rather than treated. This is the same old dynamic as thirty years ago when your view lost, but . . . inefficiency and graft in government just runs faster and faster, like the brain of a mentally ill person, until the point of exhaustion, creating even more wackos and anti-wackos as far as the eye can see.

Posted by nag at May 13, 2005 04:12 PM

Comments
OK...Ron, you asked for it!

Lets start right out on the right foot you stupid jerk, Never, ever have I SAID one word about Not seeing these people get treatment.(you can google all you want on that fact)

Lets get started with the FACT that idiot's like you and your Mom,and NAMI refuse to separate the trully mentally ill, from the "criminally insane!"

There is a reason they call these people "criminally insane!"

Lets get also to the fact, if you wish to support the placement of grouphomes, then you print a "flyer" so stating that case, put your name, address and phone number on it, an post it too as many doors as you can in your neighborhood, state also that some placements are not all dangerous,(but some are) but that is not a concern of yours.

If you have kids....DON'T HAVE ANYMORE! If your neighbors want "NEW NEIGHBORS" direct from the state mental hospital criminally insane ward, ask them to call the same people that are placing a "COMMUNITY PLACEMENT" of the mentally ill in Cully, but ask them to be real sure what they are getting...and then, when they find out that according too idiots like you, and your Mom, an NAMI, "that information is none of their business according to current law!" They may have a few questions for you at your next meeting.

If you don't like the "tone" of my response, I didn't like finding out that "nice" mentally ill people next door had killed, raped, or burned someones home, while I traveled 12 states to earn a living and my wife and kids were home alone.

Now that is out of the way, "Wanna know a way you can have your grouphome in Cully and some of your neighbors will thank you for what you did? I have the answer.

A big PS. I GOT A CRIMINALLY INSANE GROUPHOME, YOURS MAYBE NOT THAT WAY..BUT BY LAW, THEY CAN PUT ONE ANYWHERE THEY WANT.

Do we wait until Randy Leonard suggest's a "law" asking for what I seek in the name of some dead kid?

Jack and a host of others: The reason I continue this is there is a horrible "pattern" that is forming as it has other places when "community placement" of "ANY" High risk, difficult to place client(the last out of PDC loan documenet)is made without full accountibility from those that manage said clients. Randy Leonard has given a BS reason blaming me for not attending a meeting with the same people I tried to convince at over 30 meetings they were risking too much.

There is a person in Seattle,WA. I talked with, she got into this similar issue when her daughter was killed by a guy who walked away from a similar house...she vowed to get into politics and fix some of this crap. She was chair of the ways and means committee of the state parole and probation board, and might I say she was a B-word to get along with. So, just keep ignoring me, and maybe you can have ten years in Salem for a good cause.

PS.In this city..it's just not nice to be so MEAN! I have no intention of moving to Salem to continue this fight.."THAT'S WHAT I VOTED FOR RANDY LEONARD TO DO.

Well, Jack Peek, you made it almost exactly 12 hours without using the caps key.

Dammit! Bog hid the liquor!

TOO bad, I always feel like a drink after slogging through one of Peek's posts.

Well, Jack Peek, you made it almost exactly 12 hours without using the caps key.

Posted by Lily:

Dear Lily, You really think in the spirit of honest debate.....on an issue that could ruin your day, or some little kid's, that my use of the "caps' key is really what is wrong with this post? SEEK HELP! get off me, and on Randy L.

The problem is still there and the fact you think I'm the problem leads me to think Dr. Savage's new book will reach #1 by Sunday.

There is a person in Seattle,WA. I talked with, she got into this similar issue when her daughter was killed by a guy who walked away from a similar house...she vowed to get into politics and fix some of this crap. She was chair of the ways and means committee of the state parole and probation board, and might I say she was a B-word to get along with. So, just keep ignoring me, and maybe you can have ten years in Salem for a good cause.

PS.In this city..it's just not nice to be so MEAN! I have no intention of moving to Salem to continue this fight.."THAT'S WHAT I VOTED FOR RANDY LEONARD TO DO.

Dear Lily, Got a loved one in a PDX neighborhood that would be worth ten yrs in Salem?

b!X, I don't know what you're talking about - I'm wasted. Wanna make out?

JP

SHORT ANSWER:

Here is a suggestion. Wear the pro-Group Home hat and advocate, for example, that Randy's South Waterfront project include Group Home units in rough proportion to the general need for them citywide. Don't let Randy find other spots far far away from the little enclave of wealthy idiots who will buy those downtown units. This would provide a rough corollary to the special tax burden that will be saddled on others.

Hey Randy Leonard, any comments on my public policy trivia post.

Thanks
JK

SHORT ANSWER:

Here is a suggestion. Wear the pro-Group Home hat and advocate, for example, that Randy's South Waterfront project include Group Home units in rough proportion to the general need for them citywide. Don't let Randy find other spots far far away from the little enclave of wealthy idiots who will buy those downtown units. This would provide a rough corollary to the special tax burden that will be saddled on others.

Posted by Ron Ledbury at May 13, 2005 11:32 PM

RON: You advocate, ITS OK WITH YOU...right?

If you do this then RANDY will post "he is offended and won't post here anymore!"

Second thought, you might make some of us real happy to see that happen.

JP, I really wouldn't recommend moving to Salem to avoid group homes. As far as I can tell, I live within two blocks of three of them. While I'm a bit sympathetic to your cause, my sympathy is limited by the perception that the city of Salem is pulling a lot of Portland's weight when it comes to this sort of thing. (Plus, with the state pen to the East of me and the state capitol to the West, you know I must be in a high-crime neighborhood!)

Adding group homes to the South Waterfront development sounds like a good idea, though... they can just set aside a few condos from each tower. How about in the Pearl, too? Or does old town's open-air treatment facility count as close enough?

Alan..Do you think Homer Williams would bend for a Criminally insane groupgome?

The idea isn't bad, when you consider what property is going for here...and the federal laws say that if Cascadia healthcare would bitch enough, they could with the full force of the law behind them, plant one right up Homer's ...ahhhhh, developement.

What I want, and will get across, is that some, not all,of these "wonderful community placements", can be a safety issue.

What I don't want for those that could get this type of home, is the reality that certain segments of these clients are dangerous and should not be there. If we have to get this fact the hard way......GEE FOLKS, I told you so.

Alan, "google" the subject, like someone suggested before, then decide if you want your very own criminally insane house next to your wife and kids loose for 90 minutes unsupervised at a time.

When the home was discribed as "nice mentally ill people" with 24 hour care, we said yes as a part of a letter of support for a loan from PDC from our neighborhood association.

It was not as we were told...a little "truth" in advertising is also what I seek as part of a state or city law or ordinance pointed towards the people that put them there.

What none of you don't get, is what I WOULD have told Randy Leonard if he had met with me first.

I support as many of these places as possible. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN, place as many of these homes for this narrow part of the mentally ill community in all areas of the city, just hold those who run the place...RESPONSIBLE. so lets see who responds to that idea...it won't be Randy, I'm sure of that. Over 300 people are coming to your neighborhood...some of you will bake cookies for them, most of you will call Randy, and demand he not raise tax's on your cell phone and write a law for what is coming soon as a part of "community placement" (gee, has a nice ring too it)

"Hey Randy Leonard, any comments on my public policy trivia post.

Thanks
JK"

Yeah...I am telling on you when Bog gets back.

Randy Leonard Yeah...I am telling on you when Bog gets back.

JK: Tattletale

Jack Bog, say something interesting more than once in twenty posts.

JP, I just said it was a "good" idea, not an achievable one. Sarcasm, dontchya know. You're right, Homer probably wouldn't do that... willingly.

And by the way, I do actually live across the street and down the block (with the fiancee and kids) from a group-home diversion program for juvenile offenders, and there's a lot of "free-range mental health care" in my neighborhood. So, again, my sympathy is a bit limited.

If there is no chance for you to see what little I have asked the elected officals of this state for, that being the consideration of the impact of safety for kids an familys in the area,then this city can take tolerence too the highest possible level and pay the price.

Thanks for your consideration.

And sympathy Alan,is not what I have looked for, but just like the lady I mentioned up in Washington that got into politics because her daughter was killed by somebody you would tolerate because that's what "WE"(CAPS LILY)do here in Portland...... my sympathy is for the lady and her kids you mentioned because of folks like you who wouldn't even consider demanding a reality check from a jerk elected offical that said that's what he was about...SAFETY! How does safety equate to a cell phone tax??? BLOG THAT!

Just read this:

Conclusions

More effective methods for managing this complex clinical forensic population and for improving outcomes are needed. Important work remains to clarify the characteristics of offenders that are amenable to rehabilitative efforts and to develop programs that can treat these individuals cost-effectively. Challenging clinical questions must be addressed. For example, what is an acceptable level of recidivism? Predicting behaviors with low rates of occurrence in the general population, such as criminal behaviors and violence, remains problematic, and thus determining who requires more intensive treatment and monitoring can be fraught with peril. We need guidelines for assessing and managing risk.

WHAT PART OF THIS DOESN'T SET IN

a group-home diversion program for juvenile offenders....in your neigborhood

GEE, ALAN, PUPPIES COMPARED TO 5 GUYS, ALL WHO DID MURDER, ARSON OR RAPE, AND WERE NUTS TOO> You got a comic book, we have a nightmare, and they are next to a grade school with 400 little kids.

Jack Peek-

You forget, I live in Buckman where there are OVER 40 social service agencies including group homes. Why don't you take some of the energy you've spent posting here and find something else to do with it? I sincerely doubt you are garnering people on "your side" with all of your insults and ravings. I wish Jack Bog would suspend you from this site again.

Yup. When the cat's away, the mouse forgets to take his meds.

Damn y'all are funny. A chance for a semi-serious debate and most of you settle for childlike name-calling and schoolyard politics.

Bleah!

Tell us about the group home, Jack Peek.
(Read: Tell me about the rabbits, George)

You forget, I live in Buckman where there are OVER 40 social service agencies including group homes. Said the "flower" of PDX BLOGS.

Hey instead of kissing RANDYS ample ----, WHY DON'T YOU WORK too fix the above, familys including BOGDANSKI's LEFT BUCKMAN. When Andy Eiseman (former Buckman neighborhood president)said to ERIK STEN, that Buckman had a saturation issue, like Randy's standard answer it was "WHATEVER".

Your right none of you people care a fig!

The information I have gathered over the years say's your as nuts as some in the homes! One day soon, you will read about what have forecasted, your answer..."WHATEVER!" Sick, JUST SICK!

You forget, I live in Buckman where there are OVER 40 social service agencies including group homes...said lily, her usual response !

Lily, does the fact that families have moved from Buckman because of the above not bother you? Of course it doesn't.

Hey instead of kissing RANDY'S ample ----, WHY DON'T YOU WORK too fix the above, familles including BOGDANSKI's LEFT BUCKMAN. When Andy Eiseman (former Buckman neighborhood president) said to ERIK STEN, that Buckman had a saturation issue, like Randy's standard answer it was "WHATEVER."

Your right none of you people care a fig!

The information I have gathered over the years say's your as nuts as some in the homes! One day soon, you will read about what I have forecasted, your answer..."WHATEVER!" Sick, JUST SICK!

And to the rest of you, its a sad day when people stop caring.

Gee, now that I'm on Buckman, I sure hope that god awful piece of architecture where the Kienow's used to be isn't going to be a retail group home, where people will be coming at all hours of the night to buy CRAZY PEOPLE.

(P.S., I like Peek's new strategy to rally people to his cause by calling his critics "as nuts as some in the homes". It's an interesting new twist in what otherwise had become a rather repetitive storyline.)

"on Buckman" = "in Buckman"

And now for something completely different…

I was watching the news last night (hey, what can I say? The Bachelor was over and I missed Ray) and I heard a story about the surviving families of the St Helens blast wanting an apology from the State. At first I was like the others who would so often shout “It’s their own fault! They were advised to stay out of the zone!”

But then new documentation came up showing the infamous “Red Zone” from which people were advised to avoid and the actual Blast Zone. You see, the Red Zone encompassed an area of the Southern face of the mountain. Despite ample and repetitive warnings by the USGS, the state didn’t issues a similar warning to the Northwestern face of the mountain. The rest is dark history.

The people who were killed were never in the Red Zone – in fact, they were in a zone they believed to be relatively safe – after all, no warnings were ever issued concerning this area. When the mountain erupted, they never stood a chance.

After much consideration, I have decided the State indeed owes the families of these victims an apology. A public apology. Several family members are still being harassed by comments from people “Your mothers knew the risks. She deserved what she got”, etc.

I thought I’d open this for discussion since Bog’s not here. That, and the current debate seems to be going round and round like a Labrador puppy chasing its tail.

By whom are the family members being harassed?

They feel harassed, rr, by people who, when the subject comes up, say those who died in the blast knew the risk they were taking by being close. The contention now is not only that they did not, but that the State of Washington (Gov. Ray) probably did not act in the best public interest in failing to issue warnings based on the science it had received.

Conventional wisdom has been that those who stayed around the mountain did so against warnings. That appears largely not to be true.

The truth should be told.

(Quite a few reports available via Google news.)

JAck Peek-

I don't have to explain myself to you. I kiss NO ass. Never have.

Further, I have worked exhaustively on Bukman issues. You have ONE group home of criminally insane people??? What a wussie you are. We have LOADS of group homes here in Buckman. I understand your frustration, because I have been there again and again with Buckman issues. But you only hurt your cause when you resort to name calling etc.

Someone posting on PortlandCommunique suggested that you are an internet troll, and I quite agree.

TTM - What about Harry Truman, was his property in the Red Zone or Blast Zone?

If the state knew the risks, and failed to advise, they at least owe the deceased loved ones an apology.

Tex, I'm not sure where Harry's house was. But he was warned and encouraged to leave - although the USGS issued warnings to him about what they knew was going to happen, they had no legal right to forcibly remove him from his home.

The difference between Mr. Truman and the others is that Harry is somewhat regarded as a hero of the blast whereas the others considered akin to ignorant fools who met their doom. Not exactly fair, given the new evidence.

And Sally nailed it on the head. They do feel harassed. Hell, I’ll admit it: until I saw the news I thought the same thing. Now I think quite the opposite. Granted, I’m not one to go hovering around a live volcano to await its immediate eruption but if they went to where they were advised it was relatively safe (or at least wasn’t in the immediate danger zone) then whose to blame, really?

I say the State owes an apology to all surviving family members. Maybe a memorial at the observatory if one doesn’t already exist (it’s been a LONG time since I’ve been up there).

"They feel harassed, rr, by people who, when the subject comes up, say those who died in the blast knew the risk they were taking by being close. The contention now is not only that they did not, but that the State of Washington (Gov. Ray) probably did not act in the best public interest in failing to issue warnings based on the science it had received."

Huh! That's interesting. I was under the impression that the scale of the blast was unexpected by all. A huge avalance and moderate explosion seemed to be what people were planning for.

This USGS page includes a map of what was apparently the Red Zone. This timeline indicates that people started debating if the red Zone was too small (or too large) on April 30. On May 17, 1980, apparently a group of cabin owners were preparing to run the blockade.

(Funny bit, May 2: "According to the Longview Daily News, Spirit Lake cabin owners became eligible for federally funded flood insurance. The insurance would not cover homes crushed by an avalanche, however.")

This article seems to imply that an author is using the issue to increase his book sales. He claims to have previously-sealed documents that show top officials knew the danger, but apparently he got them too late for press time. No word on if he is showing them now.

It's certainly tragic that people died, and doubly so that the dead are blamed for their own deaths. I don't see much evidence that anyone was especially negligent, though. Anyone have more?

Harry was right under the volcano, definitely in the red zone. Everyone, including Mr. Truman, seemed to assume that if the bulge collapsed, he'd die within minutes. This did not seem to bother Mr. Truman. As I recall, he said that he'd given the mountain his love and his life for many years, and he was going to give it the rest of his life, short or long.

He doesn't need an apology, he needs a salute. :-)

yall r nutz

TTM, Tex, Alan, rr, et all: found this piece, which is kind of a fuller picture of the background of the author with sketches of the characters in the book. If you add that to your Daily News piece, Alan, I think the picture starts to fill in. I wouldn't be too cynical about it. This in no way appears to be a sensationalizing book rushed to print or seeking new drama by which to increase sales.

That's my take. Check it out; it's an interesting piece:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/ae/story/4824893p-4435329c.html

When Andy Eiseman (former Buckman neighborhood president) said to ERIK STEN, that Buckman had a saturation issue, like Randy's standard answer it was "WHATEVER."

Your right none of you people care a fig!

The information I have gathered over the years say's your as nuts as some in the homes! One day soon, you will read about what I have forecasted, your answer..."WHATEVER!" Sick, JUST SICK!

Lily: You an a host of others continue to miss the problem: Erik Sten told Andy Eiseman in a council session his claim of a saturation issue in Buckman was "a percieved claim" , but when I confronted him and demanded from the city a map of these places, I'm still waiting for it, there are 40, yet the city has not a clue, nor do they want it made public.....JUMP HIM NOT ME FOR IGNORING THE ISSUE. You haven't worked a day on it PERIOD!

The people that moved were run out by problems with OYA houses...complaints were made to the city and county..NOT A DAMN THING WAS DONE! YOU NEVER WORKED A DAY ON IT!

The calls keep coming here, shall I have them call you, you work sooooo much on Buckmans issues, maybe that Meth clinic that Jack tried on, and failed, and then got some serious crap for an then left the neighborhood...MAYBE YOU CAN WORK ON THAT TOO!!!

And yes, you people are nuts, you totally ignore good data/current information and most of all real people like Ida Ballishoites in Seattle who's daughter was raped and killed by a work release/halfway house/grouphome .social service siting client, because you think you must be tolerent of a problem that is right in your face and then fall all over yourselfs thanking Leonard for talking away a tool to fight terror...NO QUESTION..YOUR NUTS, AND WHO CARES WHAT YOU THINK. There has been too much blood spilled over this potential disaster for me to think I COULD trust any of you to do that right thing anyway.

The trip up from Eugene today had a K-BOO type station playing on the radio , some college "Prof" was saying that we must be "understanding" of sex offenders because most were perhaps the subject of "spankings" as a child, and this made them a victim...IF YOU "PROGRESSIVES' DIG THAT...SAVAGES NEW BOOK TITLE IS DEAD-ON! Keep on the course you people are on here...some kid will pay for it.

What the hell does an apology by contemporary political figures regarding the sad miscalculations of politicians from 25 years ago get you?

While we're at it let's get Arnie to apologize for the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906.

We have LOADS of group homes in Buckman..said the flower of Buckman.

WHO'S FAULT IS THAT????

ONE SUCCESSFULL RECALL...And STEN WOULD NEVER HAVE TOLD BUCKMAN THEY ONLY THOUGHT THEY HAD A PROBLEM.

ONE WINNING RECALL, AND LEONARD WOULDN'T HAVE THE NERVE TO ADD MORE TAX'S.

One recall at Linn for the crap she has pulled, and none of these people would raise their tone of their voice as Leonard does and goes "WHATEVER" too any of us, yet you all fall all over yourselfs and continue to get runover.

Stop going to these meetings as I LEARNED the hardway,(A DESIGNED PROCESS ) to wear you out and promote deathlike apathy... and say HELL NO JUST ONCE, And see what happens, UNTIL THEN, YOU ALL SOUND AND LOOK LIKE THE SHEEP YOU ARE.

If the words piss you off, perhaps, they hit to close to home. Recall just one of them and see what happens. None of you have the guts.

"What the hell does an apology by contemporary political figures regarding the sad miscalculations of politicians from 25 years ago get you?"

Read for comprehension. It gets your friends to shut up already insinuating or outright stating that your relatives killed themselves through their own stupidity.

Criminey.

It also is just one little story about how one little government handled one little disaster. Warnings were also deliberately delayed when the tsunami hit (elsewhere) a few months back.

[shrug] Carry on. I don't have anything vested here. Followed a suggestion above and served up what I found -- which I found interesting.

JAck Peek-

If the shoe fits.......

troll:

An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1. regularly posts specious arguements, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list or in emails for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion.

::ducks::

It gets your friends to shut up already insinuating or outright stating that your relatives killed themselves through their own stupidity.

Sorry to get you riled Sally.

My point is why apologize if you didn't commit the act and those who did were probably not at fault anyway?

It seems hollow and meaningless. If they were really at fault maybe they ought to compensate the victims' families. This sort of apology is like compensating them with three-dollar bills.

I don't think you can hold the Washington state government responsible for not accurately predicting the extent of the May 18th eruption (mudslides into rivers and flash floods).

If I go golfing while a storm is brewing there is an increased chance I'll be hit by lightning.

If I drive home (soberly) at 2am on a Saturday night, I know there is an increased chance I'll be hit by a drunk.

If I go hiking in the shadow of an extremely active volcano, I should realize that there is some risk involved.

But if we expect the government to prevent us from coming into any danger, we sacrifice our own ability to measure risk and think for ourselves.

I think the government already tends to fail at too many of the things it has taken responsibility for. An apology under these circumstances suggests that it needs to be responsible for even more things.

Only an ass would claim the volcano victims killed outside of the pre-May 18th evacuation zone were anything worse than a little adventurous in the face of a known risk.

Sometimes shit happens.

When it does, no one needs to apologize.

No need to apologize, Pancho. Jack thinks Lily and I are even more adorable than usual when we're angry. (LOL)

Are we reading the same reports here? The best I have read are the one from the Tacoma News Tribune and the AP reporter R. Callimachi. Frank Parchman, author of the new and well-reviewed book, seemed to develop his interest as public relations director of Emanuel Hospital (Portland) during and after the blast.

The victims' families want their three-dollar bill. Your libertarian argument doesn't play well retroactively. The facts seem to be that the government did take on the role to define the safe & unsafe zones and issue warnings on that basis. The contentions now are that it was not with the available science.

The bigger point is that immediately after the explosion, both Governor Ray and President Carter issued public statements that were false, saying the individuals killed had defied warnings. They had not. Most were miles outside the restricted areas. (Read that Callimachi report.)

Now maybe you wouldn't go there, and maybe I wouldn't (hell, I'm scared in a plane or car). But they did because they believed the government.

And the Governor and President had no business issuing public proclamations that these people defied warnings and were in unsafe areas, when they had not, and when they were in areas the government had declared safe.

Now if you want to go forward with a proclamation saying "Don't assign the government this work, and don't trust what it says if you do," fine. Even then, I would not give them license to falsify after the fact. They can say, "Well, blah blah blah" about a whole lot of things, but NOT that the people were in areas where they were not.

That's what the relatives want a three-dollar apology for. And from what I have read, they should get it.

Pancho, your question is what would a "three dollar apology" get them? Absurd.

Firstly, the difference with the St. Helens eruption and San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 or even the Good Friday earthquake which literally tore Anchorage, Alaska in half in 1964 is that with the St. Helens eruption the government set aside a certain "danger zone" and allowed people to remain in other "safe" zones.

Despite the warnings from the USGS the government allowed these people to remain near the mountain. Whether or not that was a poor or good choice on the peoples' behalf is moot.

Most of us wouldn't go tramping around a live volcano - that's a given (although thousands or tourists do it all the time in Hawaii on guided tours). But these people did under the misconception that they were relatively safe. Why? Because the government told them so.

But that's not why the families want the apology. Those who went to the safe zones to watch knew the potential risks - that's a given. What warrants the apology is that, as Sally has mentioned, after the fatal blast the government tried to cover up the incident and issues a public statement saying those killed were trespassing in restricted areas!

Not true, given the new evidence. A grievous lie or mistruth or whatever you want to call it, issued publicly by the President of the USA, etc. mislead the American people to believe those killed in the blast were nothing more than obnoxious, hippie, Liberals purposefully spitting into the eye of the all-encompassing, all-loving government that tried so hard to keep them safe. By all accounts, those people got what they deserved. And everyone has kept to that faith for 25 years.

But know we have evidence that what happened isn't what really happened, and the government lied to save its own ass. And the memory of these people remains tainted by the misconception that they were suicidal.

That, dear Pancho, is why they are asking for this apology - and why it is so important. They could ask for monetary compensation and, maybe, they'd win (unlikely though), but they aren't.

All they are asking is for the government, as an entity, to say "We made a mistake and we're sorry for your loss."

Peace of mind and giving the proper respect to those killed in areas they thought - they were told - were safe.

Isn't that worth a three-dollar apology?

If true, shouldn't Jimmy Carter and former Gov. Ray be summoned to apologize?

Still you are beginning to convince me that some statement by current government officials is warranted. Maybe something like the half-assed apology made by senior frat-brothers to Flounder after trashing his car in Animal House:

"What can we tell you? You f@cked up, you trusted us."

"If true, shouldn't Jimmy Carter and former Gov. Ray be summoned to apologize?"

Be serious. No, really, try. ;0)

Beleive what you want - that's your perogative and you're welcome to it.

As for me, I'll stand my ground and hope an apology is issued if for nothing more than the fact it's warranted.

Never mind all that: the City Council has gone merrily ahead to approve public campaign financing, Leonard dissenting. Per The Oregonian), Sten, Inc. claims voters want it in spite of a poll showing they do (did, I guess) not, and of course not daring to risk a vote versus a "we know best."

Nothing like taking the public out of the publicly owned.

You beat me to it!

I saw that in the Oregonian as well. Not a big surprise… I mean, don’t let the public vote on it – just let those who would benefit from it vote and it’s guaranteed not to fail! Pretty smart, huh?

So let me get this right – if a candidate solicits $5.00 donations form at least 1,000 people they get $250,000 in tax dollars to run? Great – so those who don’t want a particular party to win is paying to support them anyway.

Well, the Grand Triumvirate.. er, I mean City Council said it’s a good thing so it must be!!! Like cigarettes and Narcotics for kids!

Well, the Grand Triumvirate.. er, I mean City Council said it’s a good thing so it must be!!! Like cigarettes and Narcotics for kids!

Uh, wha?

Exactly.

:0p

Heh.

WHAT IS THE FRIDAY LEAD EDITORAL ABOUT IN THE "0" ????

Good heads up, jack. Good editorial, too. Let's see if this works:

Big O Editorial

Dang, I can get it colored but I can't get it linked. Here's the URL.

http://www.oregonlive.com/editorials/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/111658339824950.xml&coll=7

In theory, voter-financed campaigns is a good idea. At some point down the road. But, in the category of "what do we need right now," if you asked me to put together a list on where I'd like to see $1.3M spent, voter-financed elections would not be in the top five, maybe not the top 10. I'd fund:

1. Cops
2. Schools
3. Pools
4. Parks
5. Community gardens
6. Drug treatment
7. Pot-hole repair
8. Low cost housing
9. Library

Before voter-financed campaigns. I mean, doesn't it strike anyone as weird that the guys saying that this is so important, and that voters are always confused by money, were themselves elected under the very system that they believe to be so tremendously flawed??

Bottom line, to me: Sten will win plaudits from people who read/write polisci journals, and who are familiar with the works of Larry Sabato and Gary Jacobsen. He will not win praise from people who are more concerned about the length of time it takes the cops to catch the guy who stole their car.

Are you in portland Dave J? you want to fund cops first?

they all have to carry tazers. that's not funded enough for you?

"Sten will win plaudits from people who read/write polisci journals, and who are familiar with the works of Larry Sabato and Gary Jacobsen. He will not win praise from people who are more concerned about the length of time it takes the cops to catch the guy who stole their car."

His quoted comments repulsed me. "What this does is give voters another option in how they judge candidates. It's an option that's going to make our process much richer."

No lie like a big lie. He wouldn't give voters the option, and it won't make them richer.

Do you have any idea how often the cops catch or the DAs prosecute car thieves in Portland? Almost never. Almost never. It's barely a crime. The city expends few resources on it. The victims pay, and they pay for their own copy of any police report -- if it's worth 10 bucks -- to boot.

A basic rule of common sense these days is: "If that's the way they do it in Oregon, don't do it !"

Latest "plug" by the Oregonian for more grouphomes in neighborhoods...a direct statement that even with the good plan for a new state hospital, more grouphomes are the best way.

OK! I agree, it makes sense, but you all better not vote the placement of "ALL" of those who are mentally ill, until you do a bit of reading on the fact that "all mentally ill are not dangerous", but some, could ruin your day.

Lastly, if common sense is valued in your life, then check the first paragraph.

I do like the basic rule of common sense. Reminds me of what I would like to see as state slogan, one I prefer to both "She flies with her own wings" and Oregon is for Dreamers": "There is no corruption in Oregon. Anyone who thinks there is corruption in Oregon is insane. Have a Nice Day!" Note today's Oregonian story on the Michael Francke case.

I have a better slogan. How about:

"Oregon: One Big Group Home"

?

That's good. One big dysfunctional family.

B!X: Someday soon as the state and county and of course the "libber neighborhoods" you hangout in will get those big grouphomes, HELL! Buckman has over 40, and may very well get more.

As someone that has a real talent, you can write an expose of how some of these places have a turnover that creates a poor handling of clients, then you can write about a couple of familys that moved from Buckman because of threats at the gates of there homes by some of the "at risk youths" or other people who just aren't tuned in very well. Maybe(hopefully) you will write a personal account.

The jokes about me,I don't care anymore, and the lack of some of you not facing the facts that some people don't belong in these places.

But you "hang" with people that don't care much anyway, so I guess there isn't much hope for a story that would help with the "basics" that Tim Boyle talked about, that what I have asked for way too long, that being public safety. When you decide to write about that issue, as with most "libbers" like you, it will be after someone is hurt or worse.

Its the stock an trade of people like you and others who slam me for calling this issue out.

Just write the story before and not after, thats all I have asked is examine it as your good work on other things that won't kill you, as this issue very well could..

The libber neighborhood I hang out in is Buckman.

Yes, I know, you wrote about it in your blog.

What is sad, is that issues other then the Buckman swimming pool issue, you won't look at, and if you did, it would NOT be from the side of community safety. Tim Boyle mentioned this as one thing these elected types have missed on.

Your story will not reflect the aspect that certain things don't work as common sense would dictate. That's why a certain best seller is doing so well, it reflects the truth that thinking you can mix criminally insane people next to a grade school and turn them loose is a sign of a mental diease itself.

You won't interview a couple of familys that were in the news then about why they moved out of this city for one, and way to the east for another.

You can interview that guy who writes this blog, he moved as well.

Hell, I don't recall even writing about the Buckman pool.

Dear B!X...maybe that "cute little hat" is too tight.

I guess there isn't much hope for a story that would help with the "basics" that Tim Boyle talked about, that what I have asked for way too long, that being public safety. When you decide to write about that issue, as with most "libbers" like you, it will be after someone is hurt or worse.

Its the stock an trade of people like you and others who slam me for calling this issue out.

Just write the story before and not after, thats all I have asked is examine it as your good work on other things that won't kill you, as this issue very well could..

you can write about a couple of familys that moved from Buckman because of threats at the gates of there homes by some of the "at risk youths" or other people who just aren't tuned in very well.

Its really something...The lady and her husband that moved,(not to mention "Jack, the blogger)you just blew by that fact! Hell..I thought facts were the stock an trade of real people who do news an commentary....but maybe its just a hobby ith you.