Since we are being raped to pay for them, it would have been nice to find a company sited in PDX or Oregon to build; I hear there's a light rail manufacturer in Clackamas. Also would have been nice to find a US owned manufacturer. I hear there's one in Clackamas.

I can't be totally against it. The way this economy is going (and is headed) it is entirely possible we *all* will be riding those things someday. It's the only thing we'll have to get around.

You going to Milwaukie? There's no "there" to "get around" to!

They'll need to come *here,* Jack.

On a side note -- I'm amused that we used to laugh at China with all their streetcars and bicycles. We'd say "What a primitive country, they can't afford cars."

Thanks to the new world economy (and our government's willingness to mortgage our future) the USA and China are passing each other in opposite directions. We'll be the ones riding bikes and taking mass transit.

"providing quicker and easier access for people of all abilities.".....ahhhh!....the bafflegarb of PC and inclusivity.

Mark, I have no problem with mass transit -- I prefer to use the bus whenever it makes sense. Rail does not make that much sense here. NY, sure. BosWash corridor? Of course! But here? Feh. It is just the same game as the early days of the streetcars here: real estate development. Only back then the developers paid for the lines and extensions into their territories out of their pockets.

Mark,

Yep that's the RailVolutin plan. Turn back the clock to some nostalgic era that will only ever exist in their minds.

But they need a bigger boat load of money to try and get us there because their plan sucks.

While the cars are constantly becoming more adavnced, cozy and affordable the privacy and convenience will never be traded away for the plan.

Yet the bozo planners and rail gang think they must persevere.

http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/02/26/portland-light-rail-modeshare-fail/

"Light Rail Ineffective: Portland transit mode-share unchanged despite $2 billion+ in LRT spending
"the journey-to-work results of all this investment, and all these people living closer to transit, didn't amount to much. Transit mode share for work trips went nowhere."

They want billions more for themselves. Not good transit or nice communities.

Got it now. Widmer is right on the Yellow Line and they are increasing their production. The mystery train and it's new style creature comforts will be offering Hefeneizen to all the gangsters and beer drinker to make the trip more enjoyable.

Fill it Up -- Of course "convenience will never be traded away" when thinking of cars. My point is we will not be given a choice. There's a new normal of lower employment and less income for workers trying to enter the work force. They won't be able to afford those comfortable cars, just the bikes and a rail pass. Work with me here.

I wonder how much money Siemens contributed to the campaigns of Earl, Ron and Char-LIE.
We will never know of course, but none of the excutives at Siemens, and the rest of the rail lobby ever get on a train or any other form of public transport, except maybe for a photo op.

I hear there's a light rail manufacturer in Clackamas.

You mean the unproven manufacturer that was allowed to license and copy a proven design from another company, and despite that after how many years (and taxpayer handouts) has yet to deliver one single working vehicle?

Queue "Colorado Railcar".

Oregon has a truck manufacturer on Swan Island that has decades of experience building trucks. And Oregon has various RV plants all across the state that have decades of experience building body shells and interiors. And one that built the most luxurious of motor coaches - essentially a bus, but a lot nicer on the inside.

But instead of taking advantage of the fact that if you want a bus you have to wait two to three years for delivery...we're going after Streetcars (the miniature version of light rail)...one that a lot of cities said "wow!" to, but only a couple have actually committed to buying.

It's as if Portland wants a Lamborghini factory under the guise of jobs...while what we really need is a Ford factory.

Mark,

No you work with me and try and grasp the failure of the whole approach around here.

Why did transit mode share not increase after 25 years and $2 billion?

Your theory fails for the simple fact that none of these ridiculous and offensive rail projects are a substitute for role of cars.
They are an "alternative". Not a viable substitute.

Light Rail is the worst for getting "there" when people want to go, with their stuff and ability to stop off or change their mind, errands or tasks while taking their workmates, friends or family.

Your forecast of transportation Armageddon suits the farce that people will abandon or not afford cars but it's convoluted to the nth degree.

People, especially for those with little means who can least afford to not have a vehicle.

Your prediction of the masses relying on transit is as off base as the doom of population growth years ago. And many other predictions gone sour.

Bike and rail passes can never get people or commerce where they need to go.

STOP speculating and imagining and just simply look at where our Light Rail already goes.

It isn't being used as you imagine.
It serves the relatively few people who live near it or drive to it who want to go only where the tracks go when the trains run and don't care how much time it takes.

Your defective notion that this can somehow eventually "get people around" is preposterous.

The current lines with their subsidized high density clap trap development has failed horribly to produce transit ridership or "communities" worth re-producing.

You're hung up on imagination versus reality.

Affordable cars and plenty of fuel will never go away or be replaced by bikes and rail.
We have 25 years of experimentation you don't want to consider.

Thanks to the new world economy (and our government's willingness to mortgage our future) the USA and China are passing each other in opposite directions. We'll be the ones riding bikes and taking mass transit.

It's a bit ironic, isn't it? As Chinese incomes rise, they want to abandon their bikes in favor of cars. Yet in Portland, the planning elite wants people to abandon their cars in favor of bikes.

the planning elite wants [other] people to abandon their cars in favor of bikes and transit

So the new "Bike Bridge" is going to look like the Markham did for so many years?

With a ramp jutting out into space...connecting with nothing ?

Got it now. Widmer is right on the Yellow Line and they are increasing their production.

So are all those brew pubs in Hood River (Amtrak hasn't even stopped there since 1997) or Newport (where a train hasn't gone since...uh, nineteen hundred and...ten? fifteen?) or Astoria (railroad washed out so many times, ODOT finally said "screw this, no more money!"), or Bend where a passenger train hasn't stopped at the depot since the 1960s (and then it was a "mixed train", a passenger coach attached to the back of a freight train and the train shows up when it shows up...the published schedule was only a "suggestion".) Or Medford or Ashland or Grants Pass, where passenger trains haven't gone since the 1950s...

I hear a bunch of wineries in Yamhill County are doing well...they have a bus system that's been nicely expanding these last few years, but the umpteenth rail survey commissioned said that passenger rail makes no sense there. Fortunately they just have short memories but they remember they have a short bank account too.