This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on February 7, 2012 11:42 AM.
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We're still basking in the glow of some good news that we got on Friday: Our Portland water bill is going up only 11% this coming year! All right!
And what are we getting for our money? Cleaner water? Better water? It seems as though we're getting a lot of mega-pork projects that aren't needed. Burying reservoirs that don't need to be buried. Planning treatment systems that don't need to be built.
Why are we doing these things? Besides the fact that you-know-who says so?
For the money they're blowing, you could probably replace the lead pipes in tens of thousands of houses within the city limits. Keep a lot of plumbers and sheet rock people employed, too. But no. The money all goes to some sweetheart engineers and contractors in big corporations with big talk and big blueprints. They want to own the water systems eventually, and wait 'til you see the bill you pay then.
Already the city bureaucrats are urging us to compare our water bills with our cable TV and phone bills -- two of the ultimate ripoffs. Eventually you'll pay Pepsi to take a shower. For now, just pungle up your 11% extra and try not to think too much about it. Have you toured the Water House yet?
Comments (28)
I just got a bill for a vacant house with no (zero, nada, nothing, meter turned off) and it was $60.
Two common features to cable and phones: they are optional, and have competition. To date I have yet to meet a human that is able to live without water.
Also, the cost of production for the Portland water system is next to nothing since it's rain water collected in the mountains, marginally treated and pretty much transported by gravity.
John,
I wrote about this awhile back where I wondered whether they do street averaging in sending out bills. Years ago, we as a smaller household had essentially the same bill as a split-level home across the street that had a large family and a swimming pool.
Do they even have meter readers anymore, how equitable is that?
This for a city that wants an Office of Equity?
Maybe they should begin with proper meter readings based on individual use.
As I understand it, the meters start to wear down, and I think the readings are lower as the meters age. A few years ago there were conversations about how old the City's water meters were, and that it would take a lot of money to replace all of the old ones. Would be interesting to see where that thinking is today. Maybe double-digit percentage increases mean not worrying too much about the meters.
I hope no one suggests water "smart meters" that can be remotely turned off by some "controlling authority" when you've used your allowed water allotment...which will be set based on number in household, age, pre-authorized allotment, etc.
We should be so lucky to be served by a private, state regulated water company. Instead, here in stump town you have the worst of public/private partnership where public government officials get indirect kick backs by letting overpriced construction contracts; kickbacks coming through the form of campaign contributions (including union bosses directing construction union dues back to city politicians) and future job opportunities in the well rewarded private partner firm.
As for cable and phones, who cares as its an apples and oranages comparison. I don't even have cable. The real comparison should be with water and sewer rates in other Metropolitan cities; and with our local area imcomes (the ability to pay a water and sewer bill). I can tell our incomes generally aren't increasing at much more than 3% per year (last ten years), and not the 6% routine (and now 11%) annual water and sewer bill increase. Commissar Leonard who should be held accountable is leaving the plantation with his PERS loot in hand (He's not as good as Clint Eastwood's Blonde in the "Good, Bad, and Ugly" though).
"compare our water bills with our cable TV and phone bills"
OK, Randy, fine.
Phone landline - I had Qwest at $30+/month. Bought a OOMA box and now paying $4.25/month
Cable TV - Unplugged my $60/month Comcast and got Netflix for $8/month. Very happy.
Meanwhile, PWB gets the water for free from the skies last time I checked and they really haven't done any capital projects I am aware of. All this for $40M a year more than 4 years ago. So here comes another $10M/year bump.
LTJD,
Right you are to be concerned about this.
Is this why they might be "phasing" out of using our meters,
people will be upset about the charges and voila new "smart meters?"
Hope not, but I wouldn't put it past the PWB to be heading there.
A big chunk of your water bill in Portland is based on the square footage of your lot for "storm water run off". Hence the $60 per month even though you aren't using a drop of H2O. Now that's weird...and wrong.
All the city commissioners need to be replaced. This arrogance is just obscene. I am going to send a contribution and perhaps even volunteer for Mr. Fernandez. The backlash is coming.
All well and good, but you left out one TEENY little detail: The sewer bill is also going up (by 6%) - so the combined increase on your combined water/sewer bill is actually a modest 17%. Sweet, eh?
The math doesn't work that way, but between the two of them, yes, it's nasty. At least with the sewer, we got something -- major sewer improvements, which were needed. With the water increases, it's just money for pet projects, and for cozy consultants on projects that aren't needed and in the end won't be required by law.
The water bill is paltry compared to the sewer bill, but at least there's a meter to measure water usage. How do they even measure sewer usage? Is it simply based on water usage?
Boycat--yes, the sewer bill is based on water usage. They figure that what goes in one pipe must come out the other.
In their magnanimous generosity, they do acknowledge that some people water their gardens in the summer, so the sewer rates are based on winter water usage.
BC: they assume that in winter most water goes to sewer (in the two weeks of July that we call "summer", they assume that some water may go onto the lawn, or whatever). Therefore, the bill is based upon estimates of winter consumption. I say "estimates" because my meter is buried under Ponderosa pine needles that have not been disturbed in more than two years.
It's still pretty close to a 20% increase in rates for the year, which fairly well sucks for somebody on a fixed income. And the "big pipe" still runs outfalls of sewage into the river during heavy rains.
You wanna go water-skiing? Great - I'll bring a camera and shoot from onshore.
I believe your math is wrong. If the water bill went up 11% (e.g. old bill was $100, now it's $111), and the sewer bill went up 6% (old bill was $100, now it's $106), then the new combined rate IS NOT 17%.
Rather, the rate increase is 11+6 (the numerator) = $17 divided by the old costs (the denominator), which is $200. That would result in an 8.5% combined water/sewer increase year on year.
How about Tualtin Valley Water District? We cut our water use by half (kids moved out), got new washer that uses a lot less water and....our water bill went up. Not down. Try getting an explanation about that from the TVWD.
2% of the 11% increase is to eliminate quarterly billing. Contrary to Randy's January letter to Council, the WB's citizen's on its Budget Advisory Committee (BAC) did not support eliminating monthly billing.
The BAC unanimously supported retaining quarterly billing (saves the Bureau and ratepayer dollars) while allowing citizens to pay monthly if they choose. The Bureau could do this now with its current billing system (just as is done elsewhere), but in that as they have raised water rates 55% since June 2008, Randy & PWB want water bills to LOOK SMALLER as they increase further. Thus the plan to eliminate quarterly billing.
We haven't heard how much of a BES increase this will involve. The Water Bureau put this in their plan without discussing with BES though it affects their rates as well.
There are many other places where cuts could be made.
With the reservoir plans delayed until after the EPA revision, the Bureau has increased their capital plan. THAT'S RIGHT THEIR CAPITAL PLAN IS HIGHER NOW THAT THE RESERVOIR AND TREATMENT PLANT PROJECTS ARE ON HOLD FOR FIVE YEARS.
George,
Water demand has declined steadily all over the country including here in Portland and at TVWD. As water usage goes down Bureaus who spend like Portland raise rates. In Portland, personnel costs doubled during Randy's reign (2005-2010) according to the 2010 Water Bond doc. With high personnel costs, the lost revenue due to conservation and large water users exiting town is made up with higher rates.
Powell Butte II tank being build now because if one were to believe Randy "we need the storage" was recommended by cozy consultants based on water demand climbing for 24 years straight (1986-2010). Demand has declined steadily during that time- still Randy wrongly argues that we need additional storage. We currently have an excess of 50MG of in town storage as reported by PWB to 2004 Reservoir Panel, 2008 to EPA and Oregon Health Authority and 2011 in PWB book.
When PB is complete there will be an excess of 100MG of in town storage at the cost of $130 million and lower water quality. The PWB says in their 2011 water book that excessive storage results in Water Quality problems
Citizens at a recent council hearing were asking for at a minimum the same delay as NY requested until 2034 on the EPA LT2 rule. Others asked for a Waiver and testified that the rule needs to be appealed.
The Council would only delay LT2 projects until 2020-2021.......
......but instead of being able to stop the spending, wouldn’t you know – Leonard and PWB came up with a big list of other projects to continue the spending in the meanwhile anyway!!!
Financial responsibility/prudence is simply not in their mindset.
When are we going to have a Clackistani Rebellion here?
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 21
At this date last year: 52
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (28)
I just got a bill for a vacant house with no (zero, nada, nothing, meter turned off) and it was $60.
SIXTY dollars!!!
Posted by John | February 7, 2012 12:12 PM
But the increase is smaller than they threatened it would be and they're going to start a monthly billing cycle so bills will appear smaller.
These clowns are probably expecting thank you cards.
Posted by Pragmatic Portlander | February 7, 2012 12:15 PM
Our household does not have a cable bill, and our phone bill is never more than $60.00 a month. So there is really no comparison.
Posted by Irene | February 7, 2012 1:11 PM
Two common features to cable and phones: they are optional, and have competition. To date I have yet to meet a human that is able to live without water.
Posted by Dave J.. | February 7, 2012 1:13 PM
Also, the cost of production for the Portland water system is next to nothing since it's rain water collected in the mountains, marginally treated and pretty much transported by gravity.
Posted by PDXLexus | February 7, 2012 1:18 PM
John,
I wrote about this awhile back where I wondered whether they do street averaging in sending out bills. Years ago, we as a smaller household had essentially the same bill as a split-level home across the street that had a large family and a swimming pool.
Do they even have meter readers anymore, how equitable is that?
This for a city that wants an Office of Equity?
Maybe they should begin with proper meter readings based on individual use.
Posted by clinamen | February 7, 2012 1:19 PM
As I understand it, the meters start to wear down, and I think the readings are lower as the meters age. A few years ago there were conversations about how old the City's water meters were, and that it would take a lot of money to replace all of the old ones. Would be interesting to see where that thinking is today. Maybe double-digit percentage increases mean not worrying too much about the meters.
Posted by umpire | February 7, 2012 1:28 PM
I hope no one suggests water "smart meters" that can be remotely turned off by some "controlling authority" when you've used your allowed water allotment...which will be set based on number in household, age, pre-authorized allotment, etc.
Posted by LTJD | February 7, 2012 1:50 PM
Here in the Reno area our monthly water bill in January - a low useage month, since we have a pool in use during May through September - was $24.21.
And our sewer bill was $88.73 for 90 days or $29.58 per month. And we entertain 2-3X per month...
Posted by Dave A. | February 7, 2012 1:59 PM
We should be so lucky to be served by a private, state regulated water company. Instead, here in stump town you have the worst of public/private partnership where public government officials get indirect kick backs by letting overpriced construction contracts; kickbacks coming through the form of campaign contributions (including union bosses directing construction union dues back to city politicians) and future job opportunities in the well rewarded private partner firm.
As for cable and phones, who cares as its an apples and oranages comparison. I don't even have cable. The real comparison should be with water and sewer rates in other Metropolitan cities; and with our local area imcomes (the ability to pay a water and sewer bill). I can tell our incomes generally aren't increasing at much more than 3% per year (last ten years), and not the 6% routine (and now 11%) annual water and sewer bill increase. Commissar Leonard who should be held accountable is leaving the plantation with his PERS loot in hand (He's not as good as Clint Eastwood's Blonde in the "Good, Bad, and Ugly" though).
Posted by Bob Clark | February 7, 2012 1:59 PM
"compare our water bills with our cable TV and phone bills"
OK, Randy, fine.
Phone landline - I had Qwest at $30+/month. Bought a OOMA box and now paying $4.25/month
Cable TV - Unplugged my $60/month Comcast and got Netflix for $8/month. Very happy.
Meanwhile, PWB gets the water for free from the skies last time I checked and they really haven't done any capital projects I am aware of. All this for $40M a year more than 4 years ago. So here comes another $10M/year bump.
Posted by Steve | February 7, 2012 2:01 PM
LTJD,
Right you are to be concerned about this.
Is this why they might be "phasing" out of using our meters,
people will be upset about the charges and voila new "smart meters?"
Hope not, but I wouldn't put it past the PWB to be heading there.
Posted by clinamen | February 7, 2012 2:05 PM
A big chunk of your water bill in Portland is based on the square footage of your lot for "storm water run off". Hence the $60 per month even though you aren't using a drop of H2O. Now that's weird...and wrong.
Posted by Usual Kevin | February 7, 2012 3:09 PM
That's our famous "rain tax", another sketchy creation of the Portland Robber Bureau.
Posted by Mr. Grumpy | February 7, 2012 3:31 PM
$300/yr. to our HOA includes water, road maintenance, snow removal, and a gate to keep the knuckleheads out. Glad I don't live in the city.
Posted by Ex-bartender | February 7, 2012 4:18 PM
All the city commissioners need to be replaced. This arrogance is just obscene. I am going to send a contribution and perhaps even volunteer for Mr. Fernandez. The backlash is coming.
Posted by John Benton | February 7, 2012 4:44 PM
All well and good, but you left out one TEENY little detail: The sewer bill is also going up (by 6%) - so the combined increase on your combined water/sewer bill is actually a modest 17%. Sweet, eh?
Posted by Max | February 7, 2012 4:59 PM
The math doesn't work that way, but between the two of them, yes, it's nasty. At least with the sewer, we got something -- major sewer improvements, which were needed. With the water increases, it's just money for pet projects, and for cozy consultants on projects that aren't needed and in the end won't be required by law.
Posted by Jack Bog | February 7, 2012 5:54 PM
The water bill is paltry compared to the sewer bill, but at least there's a meter to measure water usage. How do they even measure sewer usage? Is it simply based on water usage?
Posted by boycat | February 7, 2012 6:06 PM
Boycat--yes, the sewer bill is based on water usage. They figure that what goes in one pipe must come out the other.
In their magnanimous generosity, they do acknowledge that some people water their gardens in the summer, so the sewer rates are based on winter water usage.
Posted by Michelle | February 7, 2012 6:43 PM
BC: they assume that in winter most water goes to sewer (in the two weeks of July that we call "summer", they assume that some water may go onto the lawn, or whatever). Therefore, the bill is based upon estimates of winter consumption. I say "estimates" because my meter is buried under Ponderosa pine needles that have not been disturbed in more than two years.
Posted by Max | February 7, 2012 6:47 PM
It's still pretty close to a 20% increase in rates for the year, which fairly well sucks for somebody on a fixed income. And the "big pipe" still runs outfalls of sewage into the river during heavy rains.
You wanna go water-skiing? Great - I'll bring a camera and shoot from onshore.
Posted by Max | February 7, 2012 6:52 PM
Max,
I believe your math is wrong. If the water bill went up 11% (e.g. old bill was $100, now it's $111), and the sewer bill went up 6% (old bill was $100, now it's $106), then the new combined rate IS NOT 17%.
Rather, the rate increase is 11+6 (the numerator) = $17 divided by the old costs (the denominator), which is $200. That would result in an 8.5% combined water/sewer increase year on year.
Posted by Mister Tee | February 8, 2012 1:12 AM
Mr. T -
Knowing how much my social security has gone up, that 8.5 % increase still is unaffordable.
Water; sewer; garbage; TriMet,; gasoline.
Everything but income.
Posted by Nonny Mouse | February 8, 2012 8:04 AM
How about Tualtin Valley Water District? We cut our water use by half (kids moved out), got new washer that uses a lot less water and....our water bill went up. Not down. Try getting an explanation about that from the TVWD.
Posted by George | February 8, 2012 12:37 PM
2% of the 11% increase is to eliminate quarterly billing. Contrary to Randy's January letter to Council, the WB's citizen's on its Budget Advisory Committee (BAC) did not support eliminating monthly billing.
The BAC unanimously supported retaining quarterly billing (saves the Bureau and ratepayer dollars) while allowing citizens to pay monthly if they choose. The Bureau could do this now with its current billing system (just as is done elsewhere), but in that as they have raised water rates 55% since June 2008, Randy & PWB want water bills to LOOK SMALLER as they increase further. Thus the plan to eliminate quarterly billing.
We haven't heard how much of a BES increase this will involve. The Water Bureau put this in their plan without discussing with BES though it affects their rates as well.
There are many other places where cuts could be made.
With the reservoir plans delayed until after the EPA revision, the Bureau has increased their capital plan. THAT'S RIGHT THEIR CAPITAL PLAN IS HIGHER NOW THAT THE RESERVOIR AND TREATMENT PLANT PROJECTS ARE ON HOLD FOR FIVE YEARS.
Posted by f. jones | February 8, 2012 1:56 PM
George,
Water demand has declined steadily all over the country including here in Portland and at TVWD. As water usage goes down Bureaus who spend like Portland raise rates. In Portland, personnel costs doubled during Randy's reign (2005-2010) according to the 2010 Water Bond doc. With high personnel costs, the lost revenue due to conservation and large water users exiting town is made up with higher rates.
Powell Butte II tank being build now because if one were to believe Randy "we need the storage" was recommended by cozy consultants based on water demand climbing for 24 years straight (1986-2010). Demand has declined steadily during that time- still Randy wrongly argues that we need additional storage. We currently have an excess of 50MG of in town storage as reported by PWB to 2004 Reservoir Panel, 2008 to EPA and Oregon Health Authority and 2011 in PWB book.
When PB is complete there will be an excess of 100MG of in town storage at the cost of $130 million and lower water quality. The PWB says in their 2011 water book that excessive storage results in Water Quality problems
Posted by f.jones | February 8, 2012 2:15 PM
Citizens at a recent council hearing were asking for at a minimum the same delay as NY requested until 2034 on the EPA LT2 rule. Others asked for a Waiver and testified that the rule needs to be appealed.
The Council would only delay LT2 projects until 2020-2021.......
......but instead of being able to stop the spending, wouldn’t you know – Leonard and PWB came up with a big list of other projects to continue the spending in the meanwhile anyway!!!
Financial responsibility/prudence is simply not in their mindset.
When are we going to have a Clackistani Rebellion here?
Posted by clinamen | February 8, 2012 7:26 PM