Besides it far inland. About 80 miles and it is expensive to bring a ship in that far so it is only done when necessary.

A visit to Tacoma makes you realize what a joke the PoP is. Close it, and dissolve the taxing district.

Oh, so now you want to talk policy and local-watershed planning, just because local planning self-sustaining is obviously the sane reasoned way to go about going on.

(-;

And however much we're gonna 'plan' this regional sensibility to stop expanding the port (bulk tonnage), and we take account of the planning, we should use a 2-tier of money coupons: Fed.dollars (Reserve.Notes, discounted) and Oregon dollars (beaver bucks, at a premium).

.

The port could do what they did with shipyards and give all of the terminals away.

Or what they did with internatinal flight airlines.

Pay millions of dollars to have ships come here.

Then after the money runs out and they say they 'may' keep coming here for a while longer, immediately declare that you hit the jackpot with the gamble.

When they stop (it's coming) blame the economy and say there's always challenges.

Ya'll know this wouldn't be such a pesimistic region and State if it wasn't always the same people in the same club with the horrible track record comitting all the bone headed moves.

It's only gotten worse lately.

Look at Mayor Creepy taking over the CRC.

Here's a guy that is worse than useless, he's the Mayor and meddling in an Interstate Bridge project.

Is there any odds at all that he won't completely screw that up?

And how does he roll people like the Mayor of Vancouver?

Ben: . . Ya'll know this wouldn't be such a pesimistic region and State if it wasn't always the same people in the same club with the horrible track record comitting all the bone headed moves. .

I agree.

Interesting - You wanting to stop a billion or more of foolish spending and I write about stopping a billion with debt in another bone headed agenda. Who knows how many more bone headed ideas are out there debt swamping us?

This has to change.
I find it distress relieving to be able to write here about it.

Thanks for your input and reporting to us about the latest tri-met light rail meetings. I so hope an end is in sight on that whole scene and this club of people just won't be able to continue on this time with the shenanigans.

Take care

Bluecollar Libertarian, please don't keep perpetuating the distance factor from the ocean to the port as the cause PoP's failure. The nautical miles from the Pacific to Seattle, and even longer for Tacoma, exceeds the miles from Astoria to Portland. The cause is that PoP is now being run as a poorly run development and environmental firm. It's the management and the straying from what a Port's mission should be. Ben summaries it well.

Lee, it's not just the mileage, but also the depth and access to markets from there. Portland will never be able to outmuscle Seattle or Tacoma as an inbound port.

Portland's strength is in outbound shipping as barging is the cheapest mode of freight travel that there is -- the Inland Empire drains to Portland and thence to Asia and the world.

Ben does truly summarize it well, except where he slips off of rational nonbiased 'math facts' as a basis for policy proposals, and he switches track into personal attack. Forget Who we have to knock down to get this thing done, just discuss in 'watershed-society engineering' terms, ('tribal'? terms), What do we like obtaining in this (port 'revisioning') policy?

We would plan the act, then tap the actors to develop the plan.

But most of all the point is 'we' locals in this Columbia R. watershed -- WE at the vertex confluence with the Willamette R. watershed -- we have a sovereignty of ourselves, for each of us to recognize. And it is NOT represented in or personified by the present 'local' office holders. And NOT personified in any person, totally. Always 'our' sovereignty is a spirit.

And we better work and cohabit together, since the Winds of the World have gale warnings flying out beyond the breaker at the Col.R. bar.

Globalization news of the 'Winds of the World':

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/08/the_bush_tax_plan_vs_the_obama.html

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Well done Tensky.

While you've shown that the GOP and DEM would cut taxes equally below 500k you've also shown that the greater money taken by the Dems from the rich would not result in greater cuts for the rest.

It would just disappear into the caldron of mission creepy government to feed what so many criticize.

You're saying it's preferable to have it disappear than remain in the hands of those who create, build and hire?

Is that your message?

Because I'd prefer our local caldron get a lot less.

If you do object to the same local people in the same local club with the horrible track record committing all the bone headed moves then why muck it up with a verbose obfuscation?

How does your not liking the GOP relate to our local buffoons?

For demonstrative purposes, do you or do yo not have a problem with Mayor Creepy and the Fireman?

And if you really want to demagogue you should throw in the billions wasted on the wars.

That almost makes all the local buffoonery look swell.

Ben who elected you to be the inquisition?

Oh LucsAdvo,

That's just silly.

Ben of course it is silly. No one was ever elected to the inquisition.... do you recognize irony and sarcasm when it's staring at you...... ;-P

Actually the Port of Portland is very successful at certain things.

The problem is that the Port is asking (begging) for money for everything else.

Portland is a great port for bulk commodities - potash, grain, corn. Portland has an excellent rail route from Alberta that is almost all water-level (read: low grades, which makes it easier to haul a big long heavy train to Portland) for that sort of commodity that can ship out by steamship.

However, grain elevators and bulk commodity ships aren't sexy. Containers are sexy. And Portland is spending money on top of money trying to dredge the river and buy bigger container cranes, for a business Portland has very little play in. Seattle, Tacoma, Oakland, Los Angeles - all have much larger container facilities, direct access docks (instead of Portland's inland port) - and intermodal trains can handle a grade or two, so Stevens Pass, Donner Pass and Cajon Pass aren't such a big deal.

Of course, there's one port that is even more disturbing - Coos Bay. Coos Bay believes it can actually attract major intermodal business - when it doesn't even have a direct railroad east of the Cascades - much less, a railroad at all at the moment. (It had no problem finding tens of millions to buy it, and is now rebuilding it. The problem: Oregon (the state) has a lousy track record of buying up formerly private railroads, and turning them into successful assets.)