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Sunday, February 14, 2010

Simple math

Portland police + transit duty + weapons = ugly.

Comments (24)

Maybe the police should take their training at the Porland Zoo. What is dum-ass Salzman to say on this? Never mind asking Rosie, she's looking to retire.

When he failed to comply with lawful commands, they should have just turned around and walked away. That should be PPB's new policy. "We will only police those that comply."

During the last press conference with Saltzman and Sizer front and center, the news reports showed only Sizer talking and Salztman sitting mutely next to her looking like the product of an unholy union between Forrest Gump and a Muppet. I mean he looked seriously weird.

I ask again, how did we go from "We need Tasers so we don't have to use lethal force" to "He didn't do what we told him so we Tased him"?

law-enforcement here continue to dig the deepest hole for themselves, so deep no one will be able to help them out and they won't be able to climb out.

Solution: cover 'em up and then forget 'em and hire new set that suits us!

It won't be long till an enraged citizenry fights back and some cop is put to the ground as result of all this ongoing "bad behavior" and when it happens, they'd better not put their faces in mine asking for flower money, as they'll get a hearty laugh.

When the funeral cortege passes by with bagpipes a bleating, we should all strip our garments and do a BRAVEHEART on 'em...bare our butts to show our contempt!

Then I bet the dumbest of their dumbest WILL GET IT!

Being a cop is a tough job: Lots of people don't like you and some of them want to hurt you. More than a few would probably like to kill you. So assuming that anything out of the norm could prove fatal the officers' reaction is Fallujah. Are we reduced to a society where interaction between the police and us little people is but a lethal game of Simon Sez? Failure to comply voids the contract to protect all citizens, even from themselves?

As for his medication being seized, he (as well we all) should have kept it in the container with the proper dispensary label. But if it was....

Tasers seem to be a sort of personal, handheld Stanford prison expirement.

This man should have considered the consequences before he chose a developmentally disabled life style.

Alan: “This man should have considered the consequences before he chose a developmentally disabled life style.” I don’t think that is funny. I worked with developmentally disabled adults and assure you it is not a life style to choose. This incident was so unfortunate. There is a lot of finger pointing to go around. I think that our PC society is creating some big problems for the developmentally disabled by forcing them to have independence that they are incapable of handling. In this case perhaps, I say perhaps the young man should not have be able to ride the max unsupervised. It is a case by case situation, but it surely is not just 100 % the fault of the police.

We've got a lot of armchair police officers on this blog.

So, you've got a suspect who won't comply with simple commands. For those who think the officers were too forceful; you've issued a command and threatened force if not complied -- do you tase him or not after said request? How many requests does one make before force is used. Keep in mind, you don't know if he's armed, on drugs, angry, etc. etc.

How are the police supposed to know the difference between a doped out suspect and a mentally disabled person? Chances are, the doped-out suspect is the most probable.

It's not like one can ask the person if he's mentally challenged -- he can't even proceed with simple requests of moving his hands away from his jacket.

I think some people need to walk in police officers' shoes and see what they have to deal with on a daily basis before being hyper-critical.

John Benton brought up the best point. Disabled people with cognitive impairments probably should be supervised depending on their issues. If public transit is needed, Tri-Met offers LIFT service.

How are the police supposed to know the difference between a doped out suspect and a mentally disabled person?

A very good point, but tasering someone who wont take his hands out of his pockets is a bit much.


Really? I think its justified to be extremely critical of their recent behavior. These are the same idiots that shot an unarmed man in the back a couple weeks ago.


How are the police supposed to know if a suspect is not hiding a weapon behind his or her pocket if they do not reveal to them their hands?

What if they ask 20 times for someone to take their hands out of their pocket -- that wouldn't be enough because tasering someone who won't take their hands out of their pocket is a "bit much"?

Seriously though, what's people criteria for when to use force and when to not use force?

Society ain't perfect and these situations are going to happen, as much as people don't want them to. As John Benton pointed out, it has more to do with making mentally disabled people operate in our very independent world, than excessive police force.

I suppose you could call me an "armchair Police officer" I have spent many hours "riding along" Taking crime scene photography, and have also spent many a work shift with mentally ill- violent, suicidal and all the rest. I have seen LE lose control and gain control. I have partied with cops and have had cops very unhappy with me. I have seen cops that are family men and destroyers of same. I have comforted a cop whose chest was collapsing (fence rail through the windshield)and last Friday, moved home the car of a retired officer getting his second DWI.

I've used advanced video software and looked at the video available on this and the max station incident.

"ws" you don't get it, and I highly doubt you have much training/knowledge in how escalate or defuse a situation.

In both of the situations there is blurry hard to see video , but both show officers escalating situations, and all the "walk in their shoes", "size of girl", "she/he deserved it", "do ride-along's", who "will you call when the boogie men breaks in", "hide the mentally ill", and all the rest of that B.S. it boils down to Rogue Cops. Yep. Out of control LE officers. That is nothing new. What is new is Elected Officials and LE managers not doing their jobs. Supervision and training. Drug and alcohol screening, anger management.


Arent these cops trained to diffuse situations like dman said? Why do they go straight to force/violence?
Local police are out of control here. I am more afraid of the police here than gangs or crazy teenagers, crack-heads, tweakers, whatever.


given your "experience" what should they have done in this situation?

Jon:"Arent these cops trained to diffuse situations like dman said? Why do they go straight to force/violence?"

ws:How are cops supposed to diffuse situations with an individual who has "serious cognitive impairments"? I am not privy to this person's exact condition, but it seems fairly debilitating.

Keep in mind, four police officers were randomly killed out of the blue in Seattle not too long ago. You don't think that pecks away at a cops' conscious every time they confront an individual who's past and current mental condition might be questionable?

It is a very serious safety situation (to the cop and individual) when a suspect does not show their hands to an officer. That's just basic knowledge.

dman: You're right, I have no background in criminal justice. Based off your bio and anecdotes, you don't either. I simply know what it feels like to be in a position where actually walking in another person's shoes has altered my opinion before.

From the officers first contact to the tase is 90 seconds. The officer at no time show any defensive stance or action. He saunters to the row where the subject sits. He put his hands out to the sides on the seat backs and leans forward. His head and body movements suggest he is being vocal. He does not stand back, crouch, draw his lethal weapon or anyway indicate he is in fear for his life, or that there is any danger in the situation. As a matter of fact the second officer goes between him and the subject. In under 2 seconds from walking onto the bus the second officer simply walks right up to him and tases him. In 20 seconds he was tased twice, cuffed and walking off the bus! No assault, no fight, no resistance.

Maybe this guy's granny would not be "shocked" if a responsible adult was with this young man at the time of this incident. This is just one more sorry example of why the mentally ill and mentally disabled need to be closely supervised; rather than being given a bottle of pills and doing as they please.

It's the George W. Bush School of Policing! "Police work is hard. It's very hard. It's difficult. It's a hard job. People don't unnerstand. I have to make hard decisions. It's hard. It's an important job. Sometimes you're wrong, but this isn't a popularity contest. Doin' what's right makes people mad atcha. I unnerstand that. It's a hard job."

There is a world out there and it is has others in it besides police who have to deal with disabled people and those who are not mentally and physically capable of adequately responding. We do it every day and don't need to resort to using Tasers or any other devise to control the situation.

In my world it usually begins with simple words "Good morning. May I help you?"

Michael H. Wilson:

There's a world out there that deals with disabled people but they know and understand an individual's condition.

Police are thrown into situations where they do not fully understand the mental state of an individual, or if that individual is wanting to do harm to them or bystander.

Completely different scenarios.

Gee ws I didn't know I was so ignorant. I have had to deal with people with these problems more than once in my life. Serious problems and never had to use violence to get my way.

I'm not going to give you my whole life story but there are other ways of solving problems in life than the tactics often used by the PPB and many of the police departments in the nation.

The Portland Establishment might not fully realize the full extent of damage being done to the local economy by these uncontrolled police officers, and all I can relate is one story that I do personally know of. There are other stories similar to mine I'm sure.

For years my Sister and her family have looked forward to coming to Portland for two weeks during the summer for visits, shopping and site-seeing, as a welcomed respite from their rural community in Idaho. They are people of sufficient means that their two weeks left a lot of $ floating around the local economy that otherwise wouldn't be.

They're blessed with a 34 year old son who is mildly mentally-challenged, but capable of some reasonable independence, who had in past visits, enjoyed getting on MAX and riding around all by himself to explore Portland and what it has to offer. He never has had a problem till last year when he was roughly treated to unwarranted verbal assault from a police officer for a very minor incident. It left him shattered and marred his remaining visit, as it did the rest of the family as we sought to get to the bottom of it all, only to be treated in rude fashion and made to feel as though we were "criminal" for even questioning Portland's so-called "finest" over the matter!

Once they returned home, we began spending time on the internet researching similar cases and were S-H-O-C-K-E-D to find such extent and breathe of what can only be called a most serious festering problem on Portland's image, much like the proverbial Invisible Pink Elephant that is found in homes of alcoholics in denial.

Portland, YOU are in denial as to how bad it really is and you are undermining your economic future by refusing to deal with these errand people.

My sister and her family are NOT coming back to Portland till they can feel safe for their son to get out and about, and they can feel that their concerns are reasonably honored rather than "blown off" as they were.

When you small business-owners and larger-business concerns set around bemoaning your various economic tales of woe, why not reckon the uncontrolled PPB within your thinking, as you can do something about them, if only you will. If not, I'm glad to see you suffer the economic declines coming your way as result of your deeply entrenched denial of FACTS!


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