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Thursday, July 26, 2007

"On American soil"

These are the new code words being bandied about by the only hope for the Republican Party: the Cheney-Bush Fear Machine. Mike "Katrina" Chertoff and other suits of the G.O.P. persuasion keep talking about these premonitions they've been having of a spectacular "terist" attack in the United States before the year is up. Of course, this gets everybody's tin foil helmets on, and you can read the wingnuts on both sides pretty easily with a simple Google search.

I will say this: I do not trust anything called "homeland security" for a New York second -- the time it takes to implode an office building.

Comments (28)

the time it takes to implode an office building.

Talk about tin foil helmets...

WTC7 was imploded. If you believe otherwise, you have been duped.

The video does not lie. That's an implosion.

I don't know what else went on that day, but by the time that particular building came down, somebody in New York had rigged it up to take it down.

Please don't ridicule me again about this. We can argue, but don't start calling me names.

Up here in Candada land, the locals refer to our system as "homeland IN-security".
They are pretty tired of their troops dieing in Afganistan too.

Jack, I didnt call you any names..why would I?

I guess my problem is believing it. An implosion like that takes days to set up. That implies advance knowledge of the attack. And as bad as this administration is (or whoever "somebody" is), I just cant wrap my head around them letting all those people die, just for political or monetary advantage. It doesnt make sense.

why do they call us tin foil hat wearers? The only reason I can see that you would call people that name is because you are to lasy to do the research for yourself. WTC7 came down by controlled demolition and was reported by BBC 20 minutes before it fell. This alone shows proof that media knew about what was happening before it fell. Apx 3000 people die on our highways every weekend, so this would be an acceptable amount to them.

Do research, question and then do more research till you get an answer. I found that I would continue to get more questions and then did more research to answer that question and the picture became very ugly. You must be afraid to see the picture that I have come to see. We need you to see the reality. Don't keep your head in the sand, research it for yourself.

I have researched it, and every single source of information I found has a severe bias against the administration. So you have to take their ideas with a grain of salt.
Half of them even say Bush or Cheney actually personally had something to do with it. You believe that too? I think people are doing research, then they get one of those websites, and they get the answer they wanted to hear, or believe, and it stops there.
Hell, those sites also say that there is no way planes could take down a building. Or that a commercial fuel fire cant melt steel (reference a tanker fire in San Francisco for the truth about that one...)

My favorite is the one that says they werent commercial airliners, they were cargo planes painted to look like airliners, and they fired missiles into the towers. (Oh, and the people on those planes were hidden by our government, they actually landed in Cincinatti or some crap.)

Conspiracy theories are everywhere.

Thank you. I started my research with the your ideas, also. I have been researching this for 6 years now.

Bush and Cheney are in the first loop of knowledge of any national event. The Secret Service is in that loop. Bush knew about the first plane before entering classroom. He didn't leave the classroom when informed of second plane. How did he know the school wasn't going to be hit? The world knew right where our President was. Does this not seem strange to you? Cheney went to a command center to control the drills/excersize's of the Department of Defense. Did you know about the drills/excersize's going on that day? Norman Minita spoke of this before the 9/11 commisioners investigation. This brings me to some questions? Why if we had all the drills in the military going on and Cheney was at the control center, why didn't he stop the attack? Could an excersize go live?

The WTC 1 & 2 were very large buildings, taking up a complete block. They were built to withstand a plane flying into them. It would be like a pencil through a doorscreen. The buildings could hold 50,000 people. Buildings were made of concrete and steel beams. The tanker fire was with rebar steel/concrete/asphalt mixture and we see the rebar still there in the photo's.

Fuels burn at different temperatures. Melting points are different temperatures. Steel's melting point or the point at which it will be able to be bent is higher then the temperature the jet fuel was capable of acheiving. I have a steel saucepan that I use on my gas stove. It hasn't melted or deformed from heat yet. My barbeque hasn't melted yet either.

In this country we have a "freedom of information" that we can get after a certain amount of time. Operation Northwoods was one of these papers that show how switching planes can be done.

I hope we can continue sharing information.

Last I checked, kerosene (jet fuel) can burn as high as 3500F with the right amount of oxygen present. Steel melts about 2500F.
So it is possible that a fire from burning jet fuel will melt steel. Your BBQ gets about 500F max.

Please double check your figures. I beleive that 1800F for kerosene at it's best with an open area of oxygen. The building was not being fed oxygen. This temperature would not pulverize concrete, either.

And you are correct about a controlled Demolition being a project that would take several days of work. The other thing to keep in mind is that these building were secured. You had to have photo ID to get into them. They housed CIA, SEC, etc.... so who could get past security to do such a job. And what happened to all those investigations that WTC7 had the files on? Remember ENRON?

WTC 1 & 2 & 7 all came down at freefall speed into there own footprint. This is Controlled Demolition. You have to have the security company's permission to enter and place the explosives in those buildings. This is why most think it has to be an inside job. Freefall speed means: the time it takes to hit the ground without resistance.like if someone threw a bowling ball off the top of the building it would hit the ground with only air resistance.

From Popular Mechanics analysis of 9/11 'myths':

Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors--along with the building's unusual construction--were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

I just want to know how such a lousy administration could possibly pull something off as large as this without having a single loose end, as well as the story being able to stand up to the questions of the 9/11 commission. Funny how Mr. Bush can go from having an IQ of 10 to being instrumental in the largest modern terrorist attack the U.S. has seen.

contract out the job. most anyone can be bought. They have the money. we gave it to them. Dept of defense can't account for 2.3 trillion dollars. you can pay 10,000 people 230 million dollars each with that amount.


Obviously all of the missteps like...well...everything, were on purpose to cover up the ingenious WTC7 plan. Everybody knows that an administration that could pull off the murder of 1000's and the purposeful demolition of a domestic skyscraper - and pull it off within months of taking office mind you - and never get caught - could only be bumbling enough to be raked over the coals on such petty things as the domestic spying program and plamegate if they CHOSE to be caught. Make everyone believe they are stupid; allow the President of the United States be branded a "Chimp", and no one will suspect you can pull it off. Cheney and Rove are truly the most genius evildoers EVER. Muuuahahahahahah!

Fruitless speculation. 9/11 doesn't have to be a domestic conspiracy in order for us to understand how it has been exploited to our detriment by our government. As to the implosion of WTC 7: given who and what was in it, it's not difficult to imagine that it was set up to be "scuttled" if circumstances should one day require it, as they evidently did on that day.

I don't know if the government did it, or the building's owner did it, or what. And I don't know about WTC 1 and 2. But I do know that 7 was imploded. Watch all the video on YouTube. Don't be stupid. That's an implosion.


9/11 Mysteries - Google video search
Loose Change 2nd edition - Google video search

These sites can get you started in the research.

Where have I been? I hope you are still reading, Jon. "An implosion like that takes days to set up." Yeah, and regular workers in the Towers independently deposed said never-seen-'em-before 'maintenance workers' in white coveralls were running around in the Towers all during July and August. Depositions were collected and stamped 'Secret' and ... disappeared. Read the worker witnesses' accounts in the 9/11 Truth material, I did. 'The government' set it up in advance. And ...

... it didn't start after Jan. when Bush came in. Bush getting in, in Florida2000, by hook or by crook -- actually, they used 'by crook' -- was already the plan underway. It started back in 1993, when Big Bush had no enemy, (the Soviet Union folded its hand, 1990, the 'Cold War' ended), and he had to have an enemy to have an excuse for having a bloated Pentagon; then he lost the '92 election, and just before he had to vacate the premises, and power, he invented the Project for the New American Century, a group (committee) to invent an enemy, for Rebuilding America's Defenses against. So they in quarterly and yearly 'meetings,' (1993-99), invented terrorism, as an afterthought. Their main thought was to build ray-gun platforms in orbit and rule the world, zapping anyone who didn't knuckle under. Don't take my word for it, read the document they wrote, the infamous 'PNAC' document. Then they said, in the document, 'people aren't going to let us build all these neat power toys quick enough, it'll take 40 years, piece by piece.' Then they said, 'hey, we need to scare people that there is a clear-and-present danger, that'll get the ball rolling ... like. we. did. in. WW II.' That was their thinking. And it was Big Bush's idea ... probably because his life got turned upside down by WW II, and all his impressions were formed then, age 18-22. So, that's when they invented 'terrorists,' and staged whatever horrific murderous crime they could think of -- 9/11 -- and framed whoever they wanted as being 'the scary terrorists.'

Jon, you say that you, "can't wrap your head around (it)," "It doesn't make sense." Well, you have to go back to like 1946, when WW II ended, to get the scope where it does make sense, all along, ever since, and then you can definitely definitely wrap your head around their thinking, because they think very small petty thoughts. Namely, WW II was over, everyone was out of a job. Especially, Big Bush, ace bomber pilot. Plus generals and officers and a whole bunch of people who liked those US Gov't, GI Joe, paychecks. And they invented a 'communist threat' and cranked it up, Cold War: Game on. There are 60 years there of the things they did, and you have to get that history detail and facts on your own, it doesn't fit in a Comment on a Blog, or I'd write it for you. But bottom line is, mass murdering 3000 New Yorkers in a couple of 'disposable' Tower buildings, is, like, chump change in the world view 'the Big Boys' play in. They are still adrenaline pumped from dropping 'The Big One' on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and taking out 500,000 lives at a whack, and an entire city. KOW-A-BUNGA, dude, let's do that again. You're right, Jon, it doesn't make sense. The 'Big Boys' are as mentally ill as probably that con man from Welches is. No, it doesn't make sense.

And the whole grief you're taking is because you are trying to make their mental illness make sense in your life ... and you are NOT mentally ill. Step away from their con job and rehearsed come-on. Don't give them any money. You start right away to feel better, suffer much less stress, and everything looks clearer, people are smiling. Of course, you got a problem doing work that makes money but that you don't give 'them' federal taxes. Two steps toward that goal: One, don't look for a 'job,' look for the 'work' you like to do, that you are talented for, that you enjoy doing for people. And two, change your definition of what 'money' is, so it is not dollar bills. It takes a little thought -- so think a while -- and it takes making some connections -- so circulate. You can do it, especially as more and more people are getting it together the same way as you.

Back on topic, you got your temperatures of kerosine and a lot of other technical details crossed-over and mixed-up. Quickest way to see that is try to light a fire that melts as much steel as in a railroad rail -- that is what is in a building. Gasoline or kerosine ain't gonna do it -- remember: more doesn't burn hotter, it only burns at the temperature it burns at, no matter how much you keep piling on. Even if you 'soften' it and 'bend' it, you still don't have it blown to bits, and that's what a four-inch layer of microscopic dust all over Manhattan means: blow to smithereens. And on and on in the building engineering details. Go back and get them if you like, but lots of people can tell you the answer and save you the trouble: the 'Big Boys' blew up the buildings. Period. And they picked out someone to blame it on, but that's not who did it.

So, as soon as you jump to the answer for 9/11, a new question dawns on you: What is to keep the 'Big Boys' from doing it again? Actually, nothing. Except if people get a clue, (like about the con guy from Welches), and stop paying into that ... military industrial complex con job. There. Are. No. Terrorists. Or. Enemies. And if there were, the Pentagon. Is. NOT. How. We. Deal. With. It. Get those old 'war bats-in-the-belfry' OUT of Wash.D.C. And that takes a while.

Meanwhile, people are getting their internet game on, (like the Welches con man got stopped by -- way to go, Jack), and people are trying to spot the second nine-eleven coming, and stop it from happening. You're in the game, now step up and take your shots, and keep your eye on the ball.

The big picture is they needed your permission to go invade the Oil Countries and take over the oil. Because there's no oil left in Texas, we burned it all, (since 1950, again -- Big Picture). BUT, they intend to get the oil FOR THEIR JET AIRPLANES, and FLYING RAY-GUNS, it most certainly is NOT for your car, sucker. There's not enough, for you. 'No gas for you!,' say the oil-nazis. That's how Big the war machine is.

... maybe think about starting your own "bias against this administration" ....
Read this. Game on.

butch, this one is for you.

It is the paperwork to NIST, (follow the link at the bottom), naming the false and incomplete science in the NIST report -- which was completed, so there is NO "research still going on."

Completed and given to Congress, which had passed a law for NIST to produce the scientific explanation for how it happened that buildings fell down, and then gave NIST the money for it. NIST spent the money, and did not comply with the law -- at the link I'm giving you, real scientists are listing the false and incomplete science NIST handed in, and NIST people are going to jail if they do not come up with what they are required by law to come up with: Scientific explanation of what happened.

The report they handed in says, in effect, 10,000 pages of 'this is how the buildings were built,' and then it says, in one-half of a page, 'so a plane hit the building and it fell down.'

Read the NIST report. Read the scientists itemized list of specific nonsense in it. See the lawsuits, and possibly prison sentences coming, for defrauding money from government contracts. It's like that.

Teens March Across US to Protest War, by Mike Wilson, July 27, 2007, Associated Press

MONTEZUMA, Iowa - Two teens from opposite coasts are marching across the country for peace, hoping to gain followers and attention ....

Here is my delema. Who do you report this information too? (The criminal act of 9/11)

The Bush administration told the Media that any story's of 9/11 must first be approved by the Whitehouse for "National Security Reasons". President Bush is fixing the Judicial system around his little finger. Because I see nothing being done in congress about this major problem, I must concede the corruption has made it loyal to Bush also. I have seen where congressmen that don't follow Bush seem to get caught in some scandel of wrong doing.

No media investigative coverage and no criminal investigation of 9/11. Why?

When Bill Clinton addressed a meeting with the Department of Health je said:, as I paraphrase it, do what I said to do because no one will stop you. I thought that seemed interesting when the room was full of Child Services Case Workers. Heard of any abuse in that area? I have.

It appears there is no one that can do anything if we can't figure out who we report the crimes to.

Doesn't anyone else see what is going on here?

You tell it to everyone you know, everyone you meet. Tell it to blogs. Tell it to the world. Tell it to trees, tell it to the sky. Tell it to your ancestors, tell it to your descendants.

Tell on Busheney. They massmurdered 3000 people, for fun.

There are no more cops, or judges, or 'adults,' no 'grown ups' who are responsible to lead, who do a job to help us.

So take over the reins. They dropped them.

Nobody we can go to in a system for a redress of grievances. So start our own. Take the land, pool the proceeds, run a government, have a society, inculturate.

Hey, it's a world-class sovereign job -- but somebody's got to do it. And, as you say, nobody's doing it now, it's open. Lose the plastics, lose the car, lose the TV, lose The News, lose the contaminated food in the contaminated grocery store, lose the 'Sale Savings' -- get rid of all the old caveman stuff from 1999 ... the cavemen can fall down and carry themselves away, don't break a sweat for that.

Get rid of the dollar bill thing, and make a new money. Recently this blog had talk of "100 years ago," put together with "100 years from now" -- what's going and what's coming. And not a single voice mentioned that 100 years ago, (and again tomorrow), there was and is no dollar bill -- it got invented when the Federal Reserve got invented (1910-14), on Jekyll Island; and then the rich folks making ruin on the world, and the workers of it, all began, and now in the latrine at the bottom of that slippery slope, like you say: nobody's working, nothing works, this ain't working for us.

So let the rotting rich keep their dollar bills -- stuff it in their mouth and screw 'em. And let's you and us get some money going on, a currency -- what's the happ', today! -- a medium of exchange, what we do for each other ... and it ain't dollar bills. But then we shall have Justice, as the country is founded and we are formed on the land; just us.

Smith: BULLS&!t...

If you provide some evidence for your assertion that "3,000 people die on our highways every weekend" then I might think the tin-foil hat criticism is harsh.

Absent hard evidence of the weekend death rate or something more salient than "I watched the video and you can tell it was imploded".

As for the BBC "pre-announcement"...I would also like a link to a legitimate news source to elevate the allegaton above urban myth.

Keep in mind that more than 10% of Americans believe Elvis is still living, and nearly 40% believe in UFOs. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean squat.

The highway fatalities are about 50,000 per year, or 4000 per month, sometimes 'soft' reported as 3000 per month. Oregon is 1% of US population, and that share of fatalities is 500 per year, or 1 -to- 2 per day ... and every day the newspaper has one, at least, right on schedule statewide.

Highway casualties (non-fatal) are about 5 times fatalities, 250,000 per year (ambulance or hospitalization), and that many more requiring no ambulance or hospitalization, and in either case, numeric accuracy begins to blur, so say, plus or minus 5%, for compiled numbers, 10% for unrecorded numbers. In any case, a figure such as 250,000 suggests 1000 some days, 500 other days; or, perhaps in an especially hectic 3-day weekend, 3000.

That's not fatalities, that's casualties. That's not every weekend, that's special weekends. It's a slight stretch to get the numbers to say '3000 per weekend' yet it seems more noteworthy, that it is not that much of a stretch. Beneath threshhold so minimally, that on first reading I figured it was a typo of 'per weekend,' for 'per month,' and took it as understatement. About 40% of all highway mishaps, across the full spectrum, have some element, ranging from 'scant' to 'scary,' which can be labelled 'alcohol' involvement -- I don't know how the percent 'involvement' varies with 'degree of seriousness.'

Still, each year, as many die on the highway as died in Vietnam. Everyone personally knows some named ones.

Here is the recoding of the BBC broadcast. The building is visible in the background as the reporter announces it already collapsed.

It is doubtful that any information makes any difference in your thinking. As you imply, you validate the cogency and consciousness of splinter factions of the population who guess at what their own mind thinks, and disregard what the consensus majority thinks and why they think it. So you seek sooner, and possibly only, to find others who share your thought, and you are prepared to ascribe validity to them as equal to yourself.

On Nine Eleven Op, you flat got it wrong, you believe the myth -- 90% of children under 5 believe in Santa Claus, too, because all the media tell them so -- and you are out to lunch. Surveys these days find more than 3 out of 4 people disbelieve the myth of Nine Eleven Op, or believe significant information is suppressed which would, if known, enable them to decide whether or not they are going to disbelieve the myth.

And your 'BBC response' link goes to a rather solitary voice saying the way it looks is not like it is, and that's the sum of the 'response' explanation; and goes on to say that the BBC's archive copy of BBC's programming cannot be found. Followed by a ton of comments to the columnist, saying (almost unanimously), that his words are not credible, nor is he for being told what to write and paid to write it.

But, as I say, I expect you, Mister Tee, only seek places with words echoing what you are already fixated in thinking, unto the grave.

Mister Tee, maybe here's a friend for you of like mind ... frozen.

Greater Bangor - 85-year-old man learns he needn't lease his phone, By Meg Haskell, July 28, 2007 - Bangor Daily News.

HERMON, Maine — Lloyd Overlock never had much reason to think ... "I don’t use it much; I just sit here and wait for it to ring," he said Friday during a visit at the cozy home he built himself and moved into back in 1952. That’s the same year he got his telephone, ...

Smith: given that you play fast and loose with auto death statistics, why should I believe you are any more reliable on left-wing conspiracies?

You commented above: http://bojack.org/2007/07/on_american_soil.html#comment-45433

"Apx 3000 people die on our highways every weekend"...

You didn't say 3,000 CASUALTIES...You said 3,000 die.

In fact, the number of U.S. auto fatalities set a new low in 2006, at 43,300.


If you simply divide the 43,300 by 52 weekends, that is 832 people who die in automobiles weekly (assuming all the deats occured on just 2 days of the week). Not quite 3,000 eh?

You're using flim-flam b/s statistical obfuscation on something as objectively simple to quantify as DEAD PEOPLE. Why should we believe you know anything about what brought down WTC7?

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