Do we call it "Sam's Hill?"

What's up with OHSU's OIG suddenly announcing that they are moving to SoWhat??? Anyone have info? This is a huge move to relocdate their research and teaching campus to SouthWaterfront.

The tram will happen, Sam is just going to let people vent and then give it money anyways.

I am very dis-heartened by how mush hubris the entire city council is getting.

Come on. Where's the fighting spirit? We've got these bastards, right where we want them. The tram could be just the thing to swing the pendulum a little too far, and bring the corrupt Goldschmidt era to a merciful halt. I think the tram is a textbook case of "Be careful what you wish for."
If I go, my first question will probably be, "What do you fellows plan on doing after you get thrown out of politics?"

We have no idea how many people it will actually transport (even the daily capacity is suspect).

We will never know the full value of all the City's staff and related (but hidden) subsidies.

We don't have any idea what it will cost to operate, or how much ridership subsidy will be required.

Yet, the tram is a done deal: it could fall from the sky and shatter to pieces and the city concil would just call up the Swiss to order another one. Nothing can stop this juggernaut.

We'll remember in November!

Heck, we'll remember in May.

I say hubris, because these projects go on anyways. Randy's PFDR fund is an example - People raised a stink, saw the abuses and in the end nothing gets done.

It's just the Versailles-effect - once the ignorant taxpayers see how wonderful this tram, PGE Park, light rail, convention center or Armory theater is - they'll forgive us for the excess taxation, meanwhile schools are going to be one month a year in a while.

It is the same with every project like this in this popstand of a town - unless you can give me an example of something that got stopped by public outcry.

And why you all bitch, OHSU and the Tram bring OGI and its jobs and opportunities to central Portland. Other then complain, what have you all done?

"""""unless you can give me an example of something that got stopped by public outcry""""

The Alexan tax abatement

""""""OHSU and the Tram bring OGI and its jobs and opportunities to central Portland"""""'

The Tram did nothing of the sort. 20 acres in SoWa was given to OHSU. 100's million in Urban Renewal will be spent.
OHSU hasn't "brought" yet.
They burned through the $200 million Oregon Opportunity money and have a new building on the hill and now their doctors have one in SoWa.
Where do they get the money for a new OGI campus in SoWa? Let me guess a new bond measure?

How does the SoWa plan now work with so many items over budget, not funded and so much of the property never paying property taxes to payback the Urban Renewal?

Steve & other readers of BoJack -

Just curious - any other good uses for that land between the Marquam and the Ross Island? I take it you wouldn't want condos...how about a pitch & putt? ;)

I think it's pretty cool that OGI is moving there. I think it is in part because the tram will give OHSU a centralized presence down there. Perhaps not b/c of the tram per se, but definitely it was a factor.

I can recall a time when that land was a Superfund site or some such. I think OHSU is to be commended for making good use of it. Those are going to be real jobs down there. It's better than another suburban office park stretching the limits of the 217 & 26 corridors.

If I were OHSU, I'd take the money from the H'boro land sale and use it to build OGI. If they need to float a bond, so be it. That's how things get financed.

Steve, it's almost as if you're against the success of OHSU. I want them to be a vital part of Portland's economy.

Sirajul - Schnitzer had a development plan 10 years ago for the area, but CoP didnt feel they had enough control.

To be clear - I have nothing against developing this or any area (I may part ways with Mr Bog on this point), I am against the massive tax subsidies while schools, roads, sewers and basic services are left to waste away because we have no money supposedly.

You know, dude, encouraging critical thought in Portland IS doing something, something more important in the long run than making unreasoned promises without considering the whole picture. I tire of hearing people on this blog characterized as "seeing the glass as half-empty" because I think the metaphor is inaccurate. I am reminded of the first day of 7th grade Science class when the teacher had placed what appeared to be a glass of iced water on the front table; it turned out to be a flask containing a chemical compound and plexi-glass cubes. The point that things are not always what they appear to be was driven home to me that day. We will end up paying later for what is not carefully debated today.

Steve S., please tell me you're going to be at the tram meeting next Thurs? Or some others here will ask tough, realistic questions? Amanda, are you going? Hope to hear a good update afterwards, as I'll be out of town that day...

Steve -

Fair enough. Subsidies are one thing and elected officials should be held accountable for them. We'll see what happens in May. But I think it's funny that Potter was elected to supposedly bring power back to the people, and yet he's pretty much enabling the same things to continue to happen...I really haven't seen any change yet. Maybe some light "visioning" but that's about it.

You don't want to do too much "visioning" too early in the day...it will give you the spins.

Nothing done on PFDR? Inaccurate. One of the major problems of money drain in the system is officers and firefighters on disability who are able to work in some fashion, but have no positions open to do so. Some of those positions are now being restored, which will definitely help.

This "popstand of a town" continues to be a national model for doing things right. Go live somewhere else in order to figure out how well things work here.

"""""Steve, it's almost as if you're against the success of OHSU.""""""

Not at all and OHSU did not clean up any brownfields.

I question their recipe for success and am against lousy planning and wasteful boondoggles funded by basic services monies through the abuse of Urban Renewal TIF.

It's all well and good that OHSU wants to move OGI to SoWa but that is hardly the case they used to push the Tram and SoWa UR funding.
And just because they "announce" the move does not make it so, well planned or viable.

The proceeds from the sale of the current OGI site will be used to "feed an endowment for OGI. School officials hope to sell the land as soon as fall then lease space back for research and classes while they plan OGI's space."

That's a red flag to me.
Suppose OHSU needs to use those proceeds for operating revenue or for rising Tram cost?

They have been shooting craps that a biotech research expansion would be generating revenue.
Is it? Was that potential real?
This latest episode may be another crap shoot to cover up the previous bad roll.

Who's checking the prudence? No one.

We may be witnessing the "private" OHSU making reckless decisions and at the end of the day OHSU may conveniently morph into a fully "public" entity demanding a massive public bailout. In which the timing could not be worse for other city and regional needs.

Along with the many other aspects we have witnessed over the past five years this entire OHSU-SoWa-PDC venture continues to wreak despite the fresh paint in today's paper.

Or, Steve, the OGI move to South Waterfront, the OHSU expansion to SoWa, and the tram could all turn out to be good things for Portland. And it might turn out that OHSU knows more about the future of biotech and how to run its business affairs than you do. And it might turn out that the Portland City Council cares more about, and knows more about, the economic and cultural well-being of Portland than you do. In any case, I don't expect you to change or tire of your tune.

Sirajul and others: Several times on this blog and others there has been discussion of how there has been over four major proposed developments for the NM area in the past 15 years; particularily for the site where OGI is proposed to move to. Again, the taxpayers of Portland have lost 15 years of property taxes and other, due to the fact that City, PDC, etc. wanted to play developer. If you studied the recent past history of NM I think you wouldn't be making your comment. Yes, development on Scnitzs site is wanted by most-it would be nice if it contributed to the NM tax hole. A pitch and putt would contribute more to the tax base and provide a recreational green space while we wait for a greenway and usable park clear until the years 2015 and later. OGI will be nice, but not paying any taxes. But we'll try to look at the whole picture, and that is what concerns some of us that have been involved in NM for 15 years of meetings. The unfunded items in NM for just the next 5 years exceed over $l00M (actually much higher when transportation costs included).

""""""And it might turn out that OHSU knows more about the future of biotech and how to run its business affairs than you do.""""""""

I totally agree. That's why I have used their own biotech czar's words, independent reports and studies and various publications. Because I want the truth.
""""""""And it might turn out that the Portland City Council cares more about, and knows more about, the economic and cultural well-being of Portland than you do.""""""

"Cares more" ? Now that's heartwarming. Is that why Potter and Sten voted for the Alexan Tax abatement? Is that why the Council sits idle as the PDC fails to provide yearly UR impact reports as required by State law?
Do you think we have a lot of "economic well being" going on around here?
Suppose we are indeed witnessing one reckless boondoggle after another as more people are observing every day? Are we all to shut up and wait for the train wreck? If that were the case the Alexan tax abatement would have been an unanimous yes vote.

One more thought and I'll take a break.

I can see it now

About a 6 months into OGI leasing space back out in Hillsboro OHSU will not even be close to accomplishing a new SoWa campus. They will have spent the proceeds from the Hillsboro sale, have no money for the new campus, realized no additional revenue from biotech expansion, be still on the hook for their share of the Tram while using it little and their general operating fund will be starved.
SoWa will be starved for cash to finish the public improvements and the PDC's Urban Renewal will have reached additional maximum indebtedness.
OHSU/OGI currently has a fully functioning campus they own. If they are in fiscal trouble, panicked and are selling it in hopes of buying time that should be found out by our elected officials.

This is all entirely possible folks.
This is Portland where things are "done not so right" like PGE park etc.

And no one will take any responsibility for any of it.
OHSU's head Peter Kohler is about to leave
and remember this was all born from Goldschmidt and his cronies.
http://www.wweek.com/html/leada082698.html

This is no time for rose colored glasses or yellow brick roads.

Wow, Steve. Um...wow.

I take it your assets are all stockpiled in gold and you're waiting for the revolution to come with a loaded shotgun and several weeks worth of provisions?

Let's evaluate the situation in a few years. I'm betting the same people complaining about the non-viability of SoWa now will then complain that the district is too crowded/successful/etc.

In the meantime, given the demographics of the area, it would seem pretty foolish to think that there's going to be LESS demand for health care in the future rather than MORE.

Also - Steve - seen the unemployment rate for the Portland area recently? 5.1%. Not great, but not where it was a few years ago either.

Let's evaluate the situation in a few years. I'm betting the same people complaining about the non-viability of SoWa now will then complain that the district is too crowded/successful/etc.

That will never happen. Given how much we Portland taxpayers have paid and will pay for that thing, it could never produce the amount of public benefit that would constitute a fair return on investment.

Sirajul, Richard, et al -

One thing I don't understand... I'm hearing you say things to the effect of "they know what they're doing" and "let's just give it a shot and reevaluate later". But you gotta remember, it's not like we don't already have a history of f-ups here of mind-boogling scope. PGE Park? A money pit. The Pearl? Beautiful neighborhood but at an incredible cost to the rest of us. The Transmit Mall? Transit experts expressing their views that the idea is "insanity" (and yes, that's a quote). Light rail? Continues to be built against the wishes of the voters. Water Dept Software? Still a mess. DMV computer system? Millions pissed into a hole.

And these are the same people who we're now supposed to trust as they give away tax subsidies that will do nothing but cause additional tax stress on the rest of us. And meanwhile, worthy programs will remain underfunded. And schools will complain about lack of money. And the Mult Co jail (I forget the name off-hand) will remain closed. And property criminals will continue to be matrix'd out.

And remember, the SoWhat district isn't an area that is ONLY being developed now because of the city's wonderful partnerships. It could have been developed and contributing to the tax rolls 10 years ago.

As for the other gentlemen's comment that Portland is known nationally as a place that "does things right".... all I can tell you is that during my frequent trips around the country, Portland is becoming a laughing stock. I'm not making that up.

Rampant property crime, underfunded jails, a homeless camp, purposely increasing traffic congestion, back room politics attempting to legalize gay marriage against the wishes of voters, business flight and high unemployment... all these things look like insanity to people I talk to in other cities.

Here's a great example of the type of short-sighted thinking that we see here.... Remember a few years ago, when the Port basically gave away that huge dry dock? I believe it was the largest dry dock on the west coast. And then the new owner promptly sold it and moved it to the Caribbean to the consternation of city officials. Well, guess who comes calling a few weeks ago... that company that wanted to scrap those SF ships somewhere in Oregon. And the Gov says, "only in dry dock" because we don't want to contaminate our water. But of course, that's no longer an option, because we gave the dry dock away. Nice.

How about the stories where the city buys property at market value, spends money to refurbish, and then sells to a favored developer at a fraction of what they paid? Is that "doing things right??"

Sorry for the rant, but I see this beautiful city with officials that are out of control and way over their head. And I can't begin to imagine the thinking behind the idea that we should just trust them and see how it all comes out.

""""""In the meantime, given the demographics of the area, it would seem pretty foolish to think that there's going to be LESS demand for health care in the future rather than MORE.""""""""

huh? Who's the fool thinking that?

Yeah there will be more demand for health care.

That's why hospitals are bing built every where.

But did you know that at the same time OHSU is "expanding" they are cutting back on providing community health care?

I was talking biotech research here. Not health care. If you don't know the width and depth of the national and growing global competition in this industry go search the web.

Don't be surprised when you find a sea of competition and little about OHSU.

I just searched this site:
http://www.nature.com/bioent/index.html
Search results for: OHSU
You have searched for "OHSU" - any of the words , in Bioentrepreneur
Sorry no results were found. Please search again.

People are already complaining about SoWa eventually being overcrowded because PDOT and the PDC have no plan to accomodate the added traffic resulting from this "plan".
Some plan huh?

Well, then, that settles it. There's clearly a population here who have decided in advance that the promise of SoWa is dooooooooooomed. That even if all the benefits happen, that it will never pay off.

I'm sorry, that's called "stacking the deck." Larry, I travel frequently across the country as well. And among the people I talk to, Portland is viewed with great admiration. Everyone I know looks forward to visiting, and would move there if circumstances allowed. I guess we must just travel in different circles.

All I know is, I'd rather hang with my crowd that believes in what Portland is becoming and the potential of what Portland can be rather than dwell in some hazy ideal past that never was.

Larry:
Not all the things you mention are, in the opinion of many, "f-ups." Some of us see, for instance, the transit mall, light rail and the pearl district as very positive attributes of Portland. I think SoWa will be a net positive as well, though cost concerns are legitimate. PGE Park didn't turn out as well as hoped, but it's hardly a money pit by large-city standards; refurbishing it was a risk worth taking. Water billing system was a genuine mess, I'll grant you that. I believe we have to blame the DMV problems on the state, not the city. At least some of the blame for underfunded schools, jails and other basic social obligations has to be pinned on the voters, who have been convinced by right-wing and libertarian pundits and politicians, and by their own selfish instincts, that they are over-taxed no matter how little they pay.

All in all, I think Portland is becoming a better, not a worse place, and I've lived here most of my forty-some years. And I think this group of city council members is doing a basically good job.

Sorry to interrupt. Please return to your mockery of "Opie" and "tram [rimshot]." Y'all were on such a roll.

Hey Sirajul and Richard,
You should join the convention center hotel fan club.

I'm sure your confidence will be appreciated.

No matter what you are thinking or feeling about the light rail Transit Mall it will be a cataclysmic failure.
And with so many red flags making it fatally flawed it is virtually guaranteed.

Steve -

I love how your pattern of argument insinuates that because we're not violently opposed to everything the city does, that we must be sycophants for any wild eyed hare the city puts forth.

Anyway... I want you to put forth some hard metrics. What constitutes failure/success for SoWa? For the Transit Mall? For anything?

Do I think the city has made some mistakes? Yes. Who am I going to vote for in May? I honestly don't know yet. Would I prefer that the city take the realities of business into account more often when making decisions? Yes. Does that mean I feel that the city is being run into the ground? NO!

I believe Portland has a lot of creative energy inside of it - both in its citizens and in its future. That is what I love about it. I am glad it is filled with such people who actually have some optimism and the will to get things done - as opposed to sitting back and calling everything a "cataclysmic failure." That is the easiest thing in the world to do and it requires no hard thought about how the region will grow and evolve over time.

I notice that when you ran for office Steve, you said Metro gave us "the highest unemployment in the country." Now that it's more in line with the national averages, is that Metro's success as well? (Of course not, but you see how ridiculous that argument is)

And with that, I bid good night (before Jack bans me anyway)

Whether or not any current project goes well or poorly, the way this tram was sold with “guesstimates” disguised as real numbers, was an unacceptable way to run a lemonade stand, much less a world-class city.

I love an optimist! Sirajul, you are a positive-thinking optimist and that's nice.

Here are some thoughts for you to ponder and questions for you to answer for yourself:

What is success?

What is "getting things done?"

Do you prefer to see individuals succeed in getting things done in business endeavors?

Or do you prefer to see public officials with no business experience spending other people's money on business endeavors with little or no chance of success? (My definition of success: annual project income is sufficient to pay off debt and operating costs with a little left over.)

Does taking other people's money for public officials' own pet projects (that you cite as evidence of their "optimism") justified, in your opinion? Just asking.

A question for all: I'm confused about OGI and OHSU - I thought OGI and PSU merged to do computer science and nanotech-related work.
Maybe OGI broke itself up into two divisions and sold itself to both PSU and OHSU? Can one of the people in this discussion group with long memories and great Internet search talent help me out?

Final thought: I thought Downtown Portland UR projects were intended to attract the 'creative class." Has that changed? I didn't think SoWhat was in Downtown Portland. Are these UR projects now aimed at 'biotech research and jobs?' Or at attracting rich DINKs (Dual income, no kids)?

P.S. OHSU's timing is fabulous. Hasn't the commercial real estate market slowed down quite a bit recently?

"This "popstand of a town" continues to be a national model for doing things right."

I'll clarify by that comment I meant that there is no accurate financial planning and most financing is the lets get a couple of bucks to turn a spade and now we can't stop so we need $10M. Moreover, most of the deals center around either Homer or Gerding/Edlen or whoever Sam is having lunch with this week. So maybe I mis-spoke and should have said banana republic.

In addition, most of the architecture is very derivative (especially of Vancouver BC or maybe communist Eastern Europe planning), I was hoping for something more creative in use of space.

OHSU & OGI:

OHSU absorbed OGI. They then alienated the research team that was working on the computer modelling of genes by demanding that they lay off most of their support staff. However, since the team had built a great deal of comradarie through their work together, they refused. Rather than submit to what they felt were unreasonable dictates from the OHSU administration, the took their grant and their staff and went to PSU, where they were welcomed.

Yet another well-advised business decision at OHSU. (NOT!)

I'll be there next Thursday night. I had to negotiate changes in my shift to do so, but I'll be there.

By the way...

Moving OGI to SoWhat will just exacerbate the potential traffic and parking problems. They will make reverse commuters into regular commuters and add to the traffic congestion that will be created down by the river, without addressing any of the traffic and parking problems on Pill Hill.

The area between the two bridges will not generate any property taxes unless OHSU, which now owns the whole shebang thanks to the gift of the toxic land to OHSU. It is now, and will remain, as long as it is OHSU land, as non-tax revenue generating.

And, yes, it's still toxic.

This is the kind of garbage that pushes these boondoggles through public officials.

Sam,
just remember as you go forward with this project, the tram provides a key transportation link for the only research institution in the region, for the largest employer in the city and a key engine for our regional economy in the 21st century.
The OGI branch of OSHU will be relocating to South Waterfront, adding another piece to the puzzle.
TIF resources are used throughout the city to finance projects that spur economic development and add jobs and housing. The payback comes when URA's are closed and the wider community gets its money from an enhanced taxbase. The return on the City's investment in the Tram is probably one of highest returns on investment, ever.
PS on that subject, I think it is time to close out Central Eastside URA and get that area back on the tax rolls.

Posted by: Lenny Anderson | Mar 1, 2006 10:07:15 AM

Hmmm...

If OHSU liquidates the West Campus, or sells off part of the Schnitzer gift, they could probably come up with the cash to finish the tram. *rimshot* *cymbalcrash*

...it could never produce the amount of public benefit that would constitute a fair return on investment.

But it will have one kick-ass Subway shop. That'll make it worth the trip right there. That and the "Go By Tram" sign.

Sirajul,

It is a matter of perspective.

Picture a family, or still-childless couple, that recently purchased a home on borrowed dollars at 100,000 over its' real investment value and living paycheck-to-paycheck being demanded to cough up tax dollars, at the margin.

The perceived good that the good folks want us to see is a burden that is borne by others. The Auditor and the DA will look upon folks as criminals if they fail to cough up the dough that the good folks sought to extract based on some perceived general good. If it is instead a special gift to excuse some entrepreneur from the burden of risk then it is perfectly fair to make the good folks that are trying to do good to face at least as much scrutiny as the Auditor and the DA would apply to the little family that is pondering if it makes sense to have a kid in an admittedly reckless anti-kid public policy environment.

The mere existence of some perceived noble goal is not the end of the inquiry, but only the start of a process that puts a matter on the docket. Whereupon public policy choices are made. Shall we discourage folks from having kids? That is the question I see.

Perhaps I am wrong to redirect the focus, as my dad passed away yesterday and I am just communicating a purely personal concern. Tell me I am wrong to demnd that my government should care about the general community rather than some special interest.

That's exactly the issue, Ron.

Ron, I am sorry for your loss.

But there's a lot of talk on this site about how public officials ignore the "general community" and serve "special interests."

If the "general community" were really as outraged as you all seem to be, wouldn't:

a) politicians bend over backwards to serve the "general community" to seek the most votes
b) people run for elected office vowing to toss out the politicians who were consistently denying the "general community" and their wishes?

Now, people who have positions that you oppose all seem to keep getting elected when they run, despite all the massive public outrage you guys claim is out there. Why is that?

Yes, I know Steve ran for Metro Council, but he lost. That should tell you how popular his ideas were. That is to say, they aren't.

I have heard this message on the board before, but I'll say it again - if you don't like what's happening, vote to change it. Run people for office or support like-minded candidates for office.

The fact that the "West Hills folks" couldn't get a ballot measure on the ballot should tell you they're not as all powerful as some who comment here think they are. I think if there were really a groundswell against Portland, there would be more candidates running to try and reverse the tide.

But there aren't.

I happen to think Sten will lose, but he'll be replaced by Ginny. That is just what my gut tells me. For some, that will be an improvement. For others, more of the same. We'll see about Amanda Fritz v. Saltzman - I'm a little skeptical she can win, but we'll see.

Sirajul,

I hear that Pablo Escobar was popular among some folks. He must have been a good man.