I watched the video.....didnt see that it was about Kerry being 'Hitler'. If anything, I think it was trying to show that others are just trying to spread fear......Al Gore was in there too. I dont think they were comparing him to Hitler.

Jack, you need to watch the video again. The Hitler clips are taken from DEMOCRATIC ads (primarily by their front organization, MoveOn.Org).

Your statements about the desperation reflected by any group that resorts to Hitler and the Holocaust are right on the money. Your anti-Bush bias, howevere, blinded you to the truth about which side has been guilty of this.

I agree. Democrats are disgusting with their constant references to Adolph Hitler as an argument for voting for Kerry. If this represents the kind of person Kerry is, I will vote Republican this year for the first time in my life.

Where, exactly, are Democrats constantly referring to Adolf Hitler, a conceptualization that makes it sound as if you can't get two Dems in a room without them falling into nothing but angry yells of BUSH IT HITLER, BUSH IS HITLER" for the rest of the evening.

Meanwhile, as to spreading fear, that's what the GOP has been doing for three years (well, longer actually). Their problem right now is that pessimism and anger is precisely what's called for.

I need to retract the last line of this post.

I must confess, I watched it with the sound off. And in that mode (or if you didn't speak English), the visual message is definitely Gore/Kerry = Hitler.

If Move On used Hitler, they deserve a good swift kick in the a*s as well. And JFK Lite should be the first one to deliver it.

It's so pathetic. "He's Hitler!" "Hey look, he called me Hitler!"

Now that I think about it, maybe I'll vote for Bush.

Not!!!

The Memory Hole has both of the videos. Looks like they were submitted to MoveOn.org for a contest and are not official ads.

As for playing the Hitler card, there's an old Usenet joke known as Godwin's Law that I suggest everyone should check out.

Jack Roberts,

In fact the Hitler clips are not from any Democratic ad. They are from a reader-posted *prospective* ad submitted during an open contest ran by moveon.org. At no point was that ever anything more than a submission by the individual(s) who submitted it. Moveon.org never sanctioned it. Indeed they prompted removed it from their server due to it's obviously controversial nature.

For the Bush/Cheney campaign to claim or otherwise insinuate that the Hitler shots are in any way the responsibility of or endorsed by the Democratic Party is to engage in classic demagoguery of the worst sort.

I would respectfully suggest that perhaps you should examine what your own bias is blinding you to.

The videos comparing Bush to Hitler were posted on MoveOn.org's website and weren't removed until Republicans publicly complained. The Bush video is detailing the outrageous, over-the-top rantings of Democrats against the Administration. These videos are great examples of that. What's wrong with pointing that out?

Can we all at least agree that MoveOn.org is a sleezebag operation that is befowling our airwaves and the internet with irresponsible garbage? Let the healing begin.

You're missing the point about the moveon.org contest. It was just that - a contest! They are no more responsible for what is submitted in their contest than would a right-leaning organization be if some NeoNazi posted something equally reprehensible in a similiar contest. Now if they'd chosen the ad as one of their finalists or even chosen the ad as the winner... then you'd have a valid point. But, we both know that's not what happened. One doesn't have to approve of what moveon.org stands for to see that the Bush/Cheney ad deliberately insinuates a falsehood (aka a lie).

"They are no more responsible for what is submitted in their contest..."

It's their site, it's their responsibility, period.

Scott, did they or did they not remove the offending submission from their servers and therefore from the contest? How else could anyone reasonably expect an organization in the same situation to do any more by way of taking responsibility? One doesn't have to support moveon.org to see that they did the right thing by removing the submission, and that there's nothing more that could be reasonably expected of them.

Question: Is there any evidence at all that whoever submitted the Hitler add in the moveon.org contest is or was a registered Democrat?

Kevin has the history correct. MoveOn is a bunch o' kids -- pretty much. They & theirs get overexcited. But I've heard the Hitler card played constantly -- all over the internet -- the last couple of years, and see Republicans referred to almost pro forma as the "reich wing."

Even if that were true -- and I hate the anlogy; I think it is vile and never one to be trifled with -- much of the left appears as Jacobins at best.

And there's not a whole lot if any comfort in that.

(Separately, Mr. Roberts, let's hear a denouncement of Rush Limbaugh/Ann Coulter, while we're calling out "outrageous, over-the-top rantings." Meanwhile, work on your next gubernatorial campaign, wouldja please -- and get it away from those types in-state?)

MoveOn.org is a crappy organization to begin with. By making the harsh comparisons and exaggerations they do they really shoot any possible credibility they ever had a chance at having.

When the Bush campaign decides to make comparisons to the Democratic Party, it really shoots his credibility as well. MoveOn.org is an independant non-profit group out to speak their minds. GWB, on the other hand, IS currently our president, and is spending his campaign dollars to make those same style of comparisons about Kerry and other Deomcrats.

When I saw the ad on the GWB website it made me phsyically ill. I would hope our president would work hard to spread a message of hope and "compassionate conservatism." Instead, his campaign is making ads that make terrible and hateful comparisons.

Using Hitler in a political ad is just plain bad form. While I would expect this out of shitball organizations like MoveOn.org, our President should be able to raise himeself up to a higher standard, and not stoop to such a blatantly hateful and ignorant low.

Reason #11327746346 why I am voting for Kerry.

Okay, Sally, you got me on that one. It's a lot easier for me to complain about the nonsense being spewed by the other side than it is to defend the nonsense being spewed on mine.

So I'll concede that MoveOn.org is just a bunch of zealots, no better or worse than our zealots. But does anyone else think that Al Gore really does seem to be on the verge of losing his grip?

John Kerry ought to find Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, and perhaps a few others a nice hobby that will keep them busy for the next five and a half months.

You know, I just watched that stupid ad again, and I want to retract my retraction. The images of screaming Gore followed by Hitler are clearly designed to draw a link between those two. I'm not buying that what the viewer is supposed to be getting is, "They're extremists. They're calling Bush Hitler." What I'm getting is, "They're extremists. Like Hitler."

I've watched the video a couple of times, and I have to admit I find it pretty ambiguous. The end of the ad is obviously in support of Bush, but the rest of the ad is kind of pro-Democrat. It seems to be arguing the Democratic party is angry and fed up with Bush. Well, Good! They should be!

I love the music at the end. Haven't heard that since they stopped advertising "feminine hygiene deodorant spray" on TV.

Al Gore -- "The Administration works closely with a network of 'rapid response' digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for “undermining support for our troops.”

Jack, if you're going to retract your retraction, then maybe we need to deconstruct the video one more time. If you watch closely, both times Hitler appears on the screen, his picture is followed closely by a similar picture, not of John Kerry, but of George W. Bush.

If someone is not paying close attention (i.e., most TV viewers), the subliminal message is one equating Hitler with Bush, not with Kerry--which is exactly what the MoveOn.org videos intended. And which is also why I would be very surprised if the Bush campaign ever placed this so-called "ad" on TV. It's intended as an internet piece to motivate the hard-core true believers and annoy the hard-core opposition.

Based on this thread, I would say it has accomplished both purposes.

"But does anyone else think that Al Gore really does seem to be on the verge of losing his grip?"

Well, Mr. Roberts, I think he's still trying to find himself. Have you seen him lately? (My sister had a t-shirt like that once .... "I'm looking for myself; have you seen me lately" ... in the 70s. And it was a joke! 25 years later vis-a-vis Mr. Gore ... I kinda don't think it is.

But he is depending on a very public validation, that cruelly failed at its penultimate test, and only half owing to his fault.

I wish him well totally elsewhere.

What defines the Hitler reference? Is it that the election process does not function properly. If so then it is a jab at the process not the elected leader. Wasn’t there an election a few years ago with someone from Massachusetts who could not light a fire under either opponents or supporters? Now that would be like eating oatmeal all day every day, nothing but oatmeal. I say protect me from oatmeal politicians; give me screamers.

If Bush wins, you could always move to Canada with the dope addict Baldwin brothers. If you rent a mini-van, you can take Paul Begala, Al Gore and Teddy Kennedy with you.

1. Al Gore and "digital brownshirts"

2. Guido Calabresi and Bush=Hitler + Mussolini

3. MoveOn.org ad

Those are just three examples. If you think the Republicans are the ones guilty of over-the-top rhetoric, you're engaging in willful blindness. That ad perfectly encapsulated the mindset of a certain segment of the Angry Left. The fact is, they are unhinged. It cracks me up that you think this advertisement is excessive, when it contains nothing but statements straight out of the Democratic donkey's mouth! Forget the Hitler thing, which you're blatantly misconstruing. Consider the rest of the rhetoric. Or don't, and hope that the electorate responds to vitriol.

When you watch the ad now on Bush's web site, there's new language at the beginning about how the Kerry people are denouncing this ad, but not denouncing the people who originally used the Hilter comparison. There's also an article on Slate all about this ad. (http://slate.msn.com/id/2103033/)

Instead of arguing about who used Hitler's image first against whom, why not attack this preposterous ad on its basic message? Bush is the bucolic, happy president bringing positivity to all the land, while his opponents are all a bunch of negative, screaming idiots. Bush has done a great deal to make people angry, and yelling about it is not irrational or counterproductive, as the Bush ad suggests. Sometimes, as now, anger is perfectly warranted. It's about time democrats decided to get worked up about something. And there are plenty of Republicans who are pretty angry at what Bush has done, so it's not just a partisan issue.

(Now back to my studies...)