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Wednesday, February 20, 2013

The dead guy's last moments, on video for you

He was running at the cops full tilt. He said something about taking hostages. He apparently was holding a broken phone that they say looked like a gun. The PoPo shot him dead. Way dead. The video is here. It isn't safe for work.

If they hadn't killed him, he couldn't have hurt anybody much with a piece of a phone. But it was dark, and he was charging right at the cops, egging them on. And so another sick person dies at the hands of Portland's police. Not their most offensive killing ever. Not by a longshot. But with 20-20 hindsight? They should have let him come.

Comments (26)

Our prisons are full of these mentally ill people and our wonderful leadership continues to fight to turn them out onto the street for the rest of us to deal with again.

Thank you Gov. Tedski, Gov. Retread, Dave Hunt and I don't have a clue Martha Schrader among many many others.

So, BoBo, your solution is? More prisons, more mental hospitals? With what money?

IF the big corporations would be taxed, and the 1% also paid their fair share that would be a beginning on a national level.
On a local level the abandonment of spending on TIF, trolleys, and trains, would free up millions for local services to help these poor sick souls, fill the pot holes and educate our kids., and that is just for starters.

When this happens with PoPo, I always find myself wondering: why can't just one officer shoot the perp in the leg instead of half a dozen of them open firing on the guy?

"So, BoBo, your solution is? More prisons, more mental hospitals? With what money?"

Yep if that is what it takes to keep our kids and society safe. Don't get me started on finding the MUNY, that is the easy part.
All you have to do is return government to it's original and only purpose:

1. Provide for our safety (police , fire, military)
2. Education
3. Provide a safety net for the poor or disabled and our seniors that are in need.

So no more employing your buddies at Ch2MHill, Batelle, Stacy & Witbeck, Solyndra, The Cultural Trust, $7k tax credits for stupid cars that don't make economic sense, PDC idiots, urban renewal districts sucking off tax revenue from schools / police /fire districts, public employees craming sustainable eco roofs, buildings , BoJack slop buckets shipped to other communities, paying ex-football coaches 40+ k a month pension for a decade of work? How does that deal get vested? CRC screwing the public billing $35.hr engineers at $200-300 hr , nope no graft here keep moving along. Our government is stuffed with stupid offices full of unproductive, usless ,unneeded programs and staff.

Isaak, we do not have a revenue problem. We have a spending and a priority problem.

These ill people need help and not just warehousing.

I don't think you can fault the cops on this one. Maybe they should carry over unders with less than leathal rounds in one barrel - cant expect them to holster their weapons to wrastle a crazed person charging them.

If they cannot clearly identify a weapon in the control of a perp/suspect, the PPB should not pre-emptively authorize the use of deadly force. Period. A risk are; kids with toys, people clutching items, including cell phones and keys, anyone "seen" by a cop with need for new glasses, just about any citizen on the street.

You can stroll around Portland if you want to. Me? I'm taking my business elsewhere... someplace where i don't have to worry about Chief Toadie's goons with guns.

Sorry, no sympathy from me. The fact that Merle M. Hatch is no longer a threat to the citizens of Portland is fine by me.

why can't just one officer shoot the perp in the leg instead of half a dozen of them open firing on the guy?

The Portland police are trained that if they shoot, they shoot to kill. And they do that if they have any suspicion that the person has a gun. "By the time I see the gun, I'm dead." Those are nearly Sgt. Voeller's exact words, and he was for many years the PPB's firearms trainer.

The other thing they do after a killing is wheel out the dead guy's criminal past. That takes most of the heat off. But they never knew about that record when they killed the guy. As always, they had no idea with whom they were dealing. All they knew was to kill him because he was holding something black is his hand and was charging them.

Gee funny how there's a correlation with threatening violence and non-compliance with officer commands and a wrap sheet. Plus we've had this discussion over and over that its a fantasy to attempt non lethal shots.

Portland police brutality is like gun control: The conversation runs its course early, and it's futile. Nothing is ever going to change.

Suicide by police.
It's very common in these United States.
The police are happy to oblige.

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

Reminds me of how Michael Moore got his start.
It was on a show called 'The awful truth'

During that time NYC cops were shooting blacks what appeared to be indiscriminately.

One of Moores first shows, which I saw, was an episode where he set up a little display in front of the police headquarters.

And as cops came out of the building he would do a demonstration.


He would then demonstrate how a person takes a wallet out of his jacket and then show the cops how it was not a gun.

He did that over and over and over.

It was a great show.

Big city cops aint no Andy Griffiths.

(I know, no personal rebuttals...) Isaac? If you or I earn some money out of state, we have to pay taxes on it, correct? 'Nuff said.

"All they knew was to kill him because he was holding something black is his hand and was charging them." From the O today" officers "intentionally kept their distance," but the encounter unfolded quickly. On the way to the call, a police sergeant had asked for a mental health crisis worker, a police dog and a police plane to respond, "but there was no time for these resources to arrive," Reese said." They ordered him to stop. It was dark and he ran towards them. Do you think it would be a good idea to change the rules of the use of deadly force to something like " You must make sure it's a weapon before firing " ? That would be a great way to get police officers killed. Glad you are are not chief.

If this were an armed citizen, and the guy charged them with a cellphone, they would in no way be justified in shooting him dead. The citizen would be charged with manslaughter, at least. So why is it okay for the cops to take someone's life in this situation. A cop who shoots an unarmed person, whatever the circumstance, has committed murder.

The cops arrived because innocent medical workers were threatened and scared for their life.

Maybe there should be a liberal version of 911 where just an unarmed social worker arrives with a joint and some kumbucha. Just dial 420.

Frank, your comments are totally ignorant, I'm not quite sure how to respond other than to suggest spending 5 minutes reading about use of force.

That is nuts Frank. They have not committed murder. If the police had a reasonable belief that the person was armed and they ordered him to stop and he did not and they shot and killed him that is not murder.

When multiple police respond to this kind of incident, is it possible at least one be the designated non-lethal shooter? If a gun is present and a suspect is on the ground and fires it, can't the other police let loose then? Bonus- less possibility of shots hurting bystanders and the subject isn't moving - much. Not sure how those rubber bullets (or whatever they use now) work, but what do the police have these [non-lethal] weapons for if they don't use them?

No way they should have let him come. They were told he had a gun and he was clearly on the offense. This is what good policing looks like. They gave him plenty of time and had asked for the proper resources.

I'm all for holding police to a high standard--and in this case they met that high standard. By acting as if they should have super-human night vision (and x-ray vision to see if a gun was in his waistband) as well as ridiculously good aim ("shoot him in the leg" is something someone who has no clue recommends) you discredit your opinion.

Let's get realistic and realize not every crazy guy who runs at police is going to make it. Instead, let's give them credit and focus on the incidents where a real miscarriage of justice occurred.

Sounds like suicide by cop, to me.

I wonder how people would respond if this were a video of a man running and then jumping off the Vista bridge.

Cause the same thing just occurred right before your eyes.

It was a suicide, using the most effective means of suicide in America today:


It was a suicide, using the most effective means of suicide in America today:


Make that the Portland Police.

Sorry - not taking the word of somebody named "pistolero" on whether or not its okay for the cops - who have many other alternatives at hand (police dog, bean bags, tazers, mace, riot shields, billy clubs, etc etc etc - to riddle a crazy guy with 9mm JHP. I am not ignorant on this topic. I am very well informed.

Sorry Frank, a dog wasn't there. Do the police politely ask Hatch to wait to charge until the dog arrives?

" tazers, mace, riot shields, billy clubs, etc etc etc " If he had been armed and shot at the police what good would any of those had been? You would have had a dead police officer.

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