First you avoid this part of town, then certain Max stops at a certain hour, or that bus route, then another part of town, until you realize there isn't anywhere to go to feel safe anymore. The basic purpose of banding together and living in a "civilized" society is for personal safety. If our government can't provide even this, the vacuum will be filled another way. God help us.

Our local government has other "priorities". Colors of money, and all that, you know.

I'm glad I wasn't there. I would be missing work tomorrow as I would have had to shoot the guy while saving the other guy's life. It would have been stressful.

Nolo, yes, you could just avoid all bad areas of P-town. Maybe just stay in your home all day and night. For some, that is not an option, including going into the NE or Lloyd district at 9am.

"The man asked why she had the backpack and demanded it be returned, when her male companion stabbed the victim." Simpson said a witness pepper-sprayed the male suspect, who then stabbed the witness."

As Nolo goes on to say:
"If our government can't provide even this, the vacuum will be filled another way. God help us."

So true, Nolo. So very true!!

What to do?

Well, ask any CWP holder. A handgun produced in a time of a real threat to their life should prevent a knife holder from stabbing you. Mace or pepper spray, not so much.

I hear a huge sucking sound. What is that vacuum?

When seconds count, the PoPo are only minutes away. Maybe we can all wear knife proof clothing? Does Ralph Lauren make Kevlar jackets and pants?

Just to clarify clearly.

Using a handgun with your CWP to get back your backpack would not generally be considered a life threatening situation by a Grand Jury. As J.H. says, pulling out and using your handgun is very emotionally taxing, shooting another human being is well beyond that. And the legal fees, even if you are in the right, will run you $10K++.

Unless you were a PoPO -- then there would be no Grand Jury, just:

"Advance to GO. Collect back wages & disability pay. Retire at a higher pay grade. Go to Community Chest, collect mega-PERS. Get a no-bid security consulting contract with [fill in gov't entity name]. Buy a place at the coast, or in the Cascades. Then retire in a state with tax breaks that favor you. Buy E.D. medicine by the gross. Entertain yourself. Smirk away."

Using a handgun with your CWP to get back your backpack would not generally be considered a life threatening situation by a Grand Jury.

But if you draw and fire on him as he's approaching you with intent to do bodily harm, its self-defense.

I work in the Lloyd center area. Unfortunately my employer doesn't allow "weapons" in our building. So even if I had a CWP I woudn t be able to carry and protect myself. I park in a covered garage and it is creepy when it is dark out. But now 9 am isn't even a safe hour.

The Safeway up on Broadway near Lloyd Center--where this whole event went down-- is one of the sketchiest places in town. The street "kids" who hang out there are some of the very worst.

Go by Streetcar! (Hey, now you can!)

Grace -- of course your employer doesn't allow weapons. Therefore if you or a co-worker are attacked and if it can be shown that if you were lawfully armed at the time, you would have deterred the attack, isn't the employer also liable for the injury?

Then again, concealed means *concealed*

My employer does not allow concealed hand guns either. So I don't mention it. Trust me, when the doo doo hits I will take MY life in record time because I cant do scary. Now Don't judge and get to bed.

Paul Hargrove, the male suspect, was also arrested January 16th for theft and a parole violation, and on February 9th for robbery and a parole violation.

Another victory for the Multnomah County criminal justice system!

...and January 20th for a parole violation

More details on the Feb 9th robbery from KPTV:

PORTLAND, OR (KPTV) -
Three suspects were arrested downtown late Friday night after a pedestrian reported he was robbed while being threatened with a box cutter.

Portland Police spokesman Pete Simpson says officers responded to the robbery call at 11:18 p.m., at Southwest 16th and Clay.

Three people matching the descriptions of the suspects were spotted at Southwest 16th Avenue and Jefferson, and were stopped for questioning.

All three were taken into custody. A box cutter and property belonging to the victim were found nearby.

The suspects arrested are identified as 32-year-old Paul Ray Hargrow, 29-year-old Jeremiah Antaiwan Johnson, and a 26-year-old female.

Hargrow was charged with robbery in the first degree as well as a parole violation. Johnson was charged with robbery in the first degree. The 26-year-old female was released without being charged.

Mm hmm, I am not amused.

Concealed carry and more jail space.

Maybe some people shouldn't be given parole.

The worst incident I've ever experienced on Trimet (so far) was at Lloyd center, and it involved some of those ubiquitous youths. I left Northeast shortly thereafter.

You can say that I ran, go right ahead -- but what I know is that the PPB is effectively prevented from doing their jobs, and won't be able to help you when needed.

Would you be willing to put yourself in that situation every day? If I were an employer over there, I'd be worried for my employees (and also about attracting prospects).

Another Portland neighborhood was better for several years. Finally it was the anarchist Occupiers that finally drove me out of there, just another sort of "youth".

Downtown Denizen,
Downtown isn't safe, where can one be in our city anymore with a secure feeling?

Downtown Denizen -- Why do you say the PPB are effectivelym prevented from doing their jobs? This is very important.

I wonder if these Lloyd Center experiences would have developed if vagrancy hadn’t been eliminated as a police tool.

Isn't the Dollar Tree liable since they allowed the person to steal the guy's pack? If you've ever had the unfortunate experience to visit a Dollar Tree, they make you surrender your pack or bag at the door.

Another point, that outdoor mall space is where many street folks gather while taking turns panhandling the Safeway and Goodwill. I go by there regularly and it has what I would call the signature odor of Portland - pee du jour.

Clinamen wrote: Downtown isn't safe, where can one be in our city anymore with a secure feeling?

I agree, although I feel slightly safer in a few well-known Downtown areas than I do anywhere in the Lloyd district. Woodlawn in the 90's was better. My handle is more ironic than descriptive these days, perhaps I should change it.

Nolo wrote: Why do you say the PPB are effectively prevented from doing their jobs?

No one particular reason, just years of accumulated reports (many of them covered here) about the politicization of the Police Bureau, and how beat officers work under so many restrictions that they are effectively discouraged from keeping citizens safe.

Look at the ridiculous rules of engagement during Occupy Portland. If I tried one tenth of what those hoodlums got away with, I'd *still* be in jail. But they have to follow orders, and there are lots and lots of orders... far too many.

I think the number of "bad" cops is actually quite few. The problem is systemic -- with the Commissioner also being the Mayor, they have an impossible job. I won't live somewhere the Police cannot do their jobs without punishment.