We think it's a great idea that the President might have to go get a judge's permission before summarily executing one of the country's own citizens. We also find it profoundly sad that there has to be a discussion of this -- and that whatever court there is, will be secret. 9/11 set this country back at least 100 years, maybe more.
We see that old John McCain is opposed to the court. Maybe he'll go along if they offer to make Sarah Palin the judge.
Comments (10)
...and this was our choice for President: the guy who wants to assassinate citizens without charges or a conviction and the other guy who wants to assassinate citizens without charges or a conviction.
Seriously, a person would need an exacto knife to cut out the ever-so-slight differences in policies between our two Presidential candidates (for both 2008 and 2012).
If the Constitution requires the police to get a warrant from a judge before they search the trunk of a person's car I can hardly fathom how someone would object to to the concept of getting clearance from a judge before killing someone. Obviously, even the process of getting clearance from a court will be a joke because it's not an advesarial proceding where anyone will be allowed to cross examine or present conflicting evidence, and whatever happens will never see the light of public scrutiny ofany kind.
Law by executive order is a dictatorship, and a very, very violent one at that.
In a post-rule of law world, the only rule is that might makes right. It is no wonder that countries and individuals are arming themselves to the teeth.
The aggressive warrior species, known as homo-sapiens, has yet to evolve into something more sophisticated.
Would your position be the same if it involved an American citizen voluntarily holed up in bin Laden's compound when he was killed?
I probably would be more concerned about careless killings of civilians in other countries than targeted killings of combatants regardless of country of citizenship.
Yes Sen. McCain, let's put it in the Dept. of Defense where they've developed hummingbird drones to spy on our domestic citizens. I'm sure the oversight that you claim is in place will protect us and our constitutional rights. Not.
Be very careful of throwing around the term, "combatant". That is something the government uses to justify their actions to avoid actually following the law.
You are also implying that a) Bin-Laden was actually killed in a raid, and that b) he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for 9-11. Both of those have no basis in fact. The FBI has never formally accused Bin-Laden of any crime involving 9-11 and we have absolutely no corroboration of what actually happened at that raid.
The Peace Prize was a just big FY from Europe to Bushie. Nothing to do with Obama. Tim, I stand by what I said regarding bin Laden. (How does Lincoln come out by your definition of government by executive order?)
I hope the concept of "citizen" is wielded as seriously when it comes to voting as it is in this thread.
Sally,
What was Europe so happy about? That we decided to completely destablize the Middle East as part of the "Great Game"? Or was it the financial meltdown that has almost destroyed the Euro?
And Lincoln got killed by having the audacity to finance the war using credit backed by the US government, instead of the big banks.
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 21
At this date last year: 52
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (10)
...and this was our choice for President: the guy who wants to assassinate citizens without charges or a conviction and the other guy who wants to assassinate citizens without charges or a conviction.
Seriously, a person would need an exacto knife to cut out the ever-so-slight differences in policies between our two Presidential candidates (for both 2008 and 2012).
Posted by Brian | February 11, 2013 10:13 AM
If the Constitution requires the police to get a warrant from a judge before they search the trunk of a person's car I can hardly fathom how someone would object to to the concept of getting clearance from a judge before killing someone. Obviously, even the process of getting clearance from a court will be a joke because it's not an advesarial proceding where anyone will be allowed to cross examine or present conflicting evidence, and whatever happens will never see the light of public scrutiny ofany kind.
Posted by Usual Kevin | February 11, 2013 10:18 AM
Law by executive order is a dictatorship, and a very, very violent one at that.
In a post-rule of law world, the only rule is that might makes right. It is no wonder that countries and individuals are arming themselves to the teeth.
The aggressive warrior species, known as homo-sapiens, has yet to evolve into something more sophisticated.
Posted by Tim | February 11, 2013 10:29 AM
Would your position be the same if it involved an American citizen voluntarily holed up in bin Laden's compound when he was killed?
I probably would be more concerned about careless killings of civilians in other countries than targeted killings of combatants regardless of country of citizenship.
Posted by sally | February 11, 2013 10:43 AM
Yes Sen. McCain, let's put it in the Dept. of Defense where they've developed hummingbird drones to spy on our domestic citizens. I'm sure the oversight that you claim is in place will protect us and our constitutional rights. Not.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-02/video-darpas-nano-hummingbird-spy-drone-action
Posted by Walter | February 11, 2013 10:49 AM
Sally,
Be very careful of throwing around the term, "combatant". That is something the government uses to justify their actions to avoid actually following the law.
You are also implying that a) Bin-Laden was actually killed in a raid, and that b) he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for 9-11. Both of those have no basis in fact. The FBI has never formally accused Bin-Laden of any crime involving 9-11 and we have absolutely no corroboration of what actually happened at that raid.
Posted by Tim | February 11, 2013 11:19 AM
Nice redirect from O to McC. O's Policy, but it's all about the angry white haired guy.
Posted by zonedar | February 11, 2013 12:44 PM
The Peace Prize was a just big FY from Europe to Bushie. Nothing to do with Obama. Tim, I stand by what I said regarding bin Laden. (How does Lincoln come out by your definition of government by executive order?)
I hope the concept of "citizen" is wielded as seriously when it comes to voting as it is in this thread.
Posted by sally | February 11, 2013 2:03 PM
Sally,
What was Europe so happy about? That we decided to completely destablize the Middle East as part of the "Great Game"? Or was it the financial meltdown that has almost destroyed the Euro?
And Lincoln got killed by having the audacity to finance the war using credit backed by the US government, instead of the big banks.
Posted by Tim | February 11, 2013 5:03 PM
Nice redirect from O to McC.
The post, like the disgrace it concerns, is bipartisan.
Posted by Jack Bog | February 11, 2013 5:30 PM