Detail, east Portland photo, courtesy Miles Hochstein / Portland Ground.



For old times' sake
The bojack bumper sticker -- only $1.50!

To order, click here.







Excellent tunes -- free! And on your browser right now. Just click on Radio Bojack!






E-mail us here.

About

This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on January 11, 2013 7:46 AM. The previous post in this blog was Courageous correction. The next post in this blog is Something hinky going on in Lake Oswego. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

Archives

Links

Law and Taxation
How Appealing
TaxProf Blog
Mauled Again
Tax Appellate Blog
A Taxing Matter
TaxVox
Tax.com
Josh Marquis
Native America, Discovered and Conquered
The Yin Blog
Ernie the Attorney
Conglomerate
Above the Law
The Volokh Conspiracy
Going Concern
Bag and Baggage
Wealth Strategies Journal
Jim Hamilton's World of Securities Regulation
myCorporateResource.com
World of Work
The Faculty Lounge
Lowering the Bar
OrCon Law

Hap'nin' Guys
Tony Pierce
Parkway Rest Stop
Utterly Boring.com
Along the Gradyent
Dwight Jaynes
Bob Borden
Dingleberry Gazette
The Red Electric
Iced Borscht
Jeremy Blachman
Dean's Rhetorical Flourish
Straight White Guy
HinesSight
Onfocus
Jalpuna
Beerdrinker.org
As Time Goes By
Dave Wagner
Jeff Selis
Alas, a Blog
Scott Hendison
Sansego
The View Through the Windshield
Appliance Blog
The Bleat

Hap'nin' Gals
My Whim is Law
Lelo in Nopo
Attorney at Large
Linda Kruschke
The Non-Consumer Advocate
10 Steps to Finding Your Happy Place
A Pig of Success
Attorney at Large
Margaret and Helen
Kimberlee Jaynes
Cornelia Seigneur
Mireio
And Sew It Goes
Mile 73
Rainy Day Thoughts
That Black Girl
Posie Gets Cozy
{AE}
Cat Eyes
Rhi in Pink
Althouse
GirlHacker
Ragwaters, Bitters, and Blue Ruin
Frytopia
Rose City Journal
Type Like the Wind

Portland and Oregon
Isaac Laquedem
StumptownBlogger
Rantings of a [Censored] Bus Driver
Jeff Mapes
Vintage Portland
The Portlander
South Waterfront
Amanda Fritz
O City Hall Reporters
Guilty Carnivore
Old Town by Larry Norton
The Alaunt
Bend Blogs
Lost Oregon
Cafe Unknown
Tin Zeroes
David's Oregon Picayune
Mark Nelsen's Weather Blog
Travel Oregon Blog
Portland Daily Photo
Portland Building Ads
Portland Food and Drink.com
Dave Knows Portland
Idaho's Portugal
Alameda Old House History
MLK in Motion
LoveSalem

Retired from Blogging
Various Observations...
The Daily E-Mail
Saving James
Portland Freelancer
Furious Nads (b!X)
Izzle Pfaff
The Grich
Kevin Allman
AboutItAll - Oregon
Lost in the Details
Worldwide Pablo
Tales from the Stump
Whitman Boys
Misterblue
Two Pennies
This Stony Planet
1221 SW 4th
Twisty
I am a Fish
Here Today
What If...?
Superinky Fixations
Pinktalk
Mellow-Drama
The Rural Bus Route
Another Blogger
Mikeyman's Computer Treehouse
Rosenblog
Portland Housing Blog

Wonderfully Wacky
Dave Barry
Borowitz Report
Blort
Stuff White People Like
Worst of the Web

Valuable Time-Wasters
My Gallery of Jacks
Litterbox, On the Prowl
Litterbox, Bag of Bones
Litterbox, Scratch
Maukie
Ride That Donkey
Singin' Horses
Rally Monkey
Simon Swears
Strong Bad's E-mail

Oregon News
KGW-TV
The Oregonian
Portland Tribune
KOIN
Willamette Week
KATU
The Sentinel
Southeast Examiner
Northwest Examiner
Sellwood Bee
Mid-County Memo
Vancouver Voice
Eugene Register-Guard
OPB
Topix.net - Portland
Salem Statesman-Journal
Oregon Capitol News
Portland Business Journal
Daily Journal of Commerce
Oregon Business
KPTV
Portland Info Net
McMinnville News Register
Lake Oswego Review
The Daily Astorian
Bend Bulletin
Corvallis Gazette-Times
Roseburg News-Review
Medford Mail-Tribune
Ashland Daily Tidings
Newport News-Times
Albany Democrat-Herald
The Eugene Weekly
Portland IndyMedia
The Columbian

Music-Related
The Beatles
Bruce Springsteen
Seal
Sting
Joni Mitchell
Ella Fitzgerald
Steve Earle
Joe Ely
Stevie Wonder
Lou Rawls

E-mail, Feeds, 'n' Stuff

Friday, January 11, 2013

A Portland mystery

A friend of this blog raises a good point: When the Portland police fatally shoot some poor, unarmed soul in the back, they inevitably give the excuse that they thought the dead guy was reaching for a gun. "By the time you see the gun, you're dead" -- that's what they always say.

Well, if that's the case, why didn't the cops just open fire on these two dummies?

Comments (32)

It might be legal to walk around with a rifle in the neighborhood, but it's not smart, and it's extremely insensitive. I believe Oregon law requires a concealed weapon permit holder to present his/her license upon request of a police officer. These guys refused to do that. Really dumb. They're lucky they didn't get shot.

600 years of Guns
125 years of semi-auto Guns
40 years of tabloid media
30 years of spree shootings...

So... you do the math.

Don't know your def of spree shootings, but mass murder with weapons - firearms or otherwise has been going on waaay longer than any of the other stats you list. And it will continue even after Obama and Feinstein trample your rights into the dust.

I would imagine the information leading the police to a particular situation plays a big part in the way they react after arriving. If the perps are reported to be despondent, threatening, committing a felony, and/or high on drugs the police may react one way. If two guys are nonchalantly walking down the street with rifles slung and are cooperative when police arrive, you would hope to get a calmer response. Risky move by these dummies for sure, but I would not try to read too much into the police response or lack thereof.

A. The city can't afford The judgment if the cops fired on these two;

B. Despite the examples of Captai....err, Lieutenant Todd and Chief Reese, the street cops aren't stupid. Unlike unarmed black guys, these guys might defend themselves if fired upon by our thugs in blue.

The YouTube video posted by one of them shows the whole incident from the beginning. Even when one kid tries to shake the hand of a cop upon their introduction (the cop declined to shake his hand due to the cop having a cold). In today's environment, regardless of being within the law, if these 'open carry' staged events continue, I easily see another CCW person engaging them with a drawn gun, even if a cop shows more restraint. Maybe the cops' restraint was due to the video evidence being collected?

Could end deadly for them, even if they are within the law. Kinda like Portland bicyclists, dead right.

Frank, what part of 'concealed' is happening here?

The neighborhood schools also went into lockdown thanks to those two idiots. Because of course it makes sense to terrify a bunch of school kids, especially after Sandy Hook. Idiots.

Well, that's easy. These guys looked like their families had the money to sue. And is it just me, or does the general Portland Police response remind you of Bill Hicks's assessment of Jack Palance in "Shane"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbO0f9uaWZE

“Historically, knights have worn their weapons on the outside," That's funny because this summer I did see a guy in downtown Portland wearing a Kilt and carrying a sword.

Harry - cold shmold, oldest line in the book to get out of shaking hands with someone you would rather beat the sh!t out of.

Just like when police arrive to find dimwitted protesters burning our flag in the streets. These guys were there to make their stupid point, and the cops had to put up with it, despite what they really wanted to do.

Sam T. - under Oregon law, the reason these yahoos can walk around with loaded rifles in the city is by virtue of the fact that they hold a concealed handgun license. Otherwise - it's illegal. I guess one could argue that the Oregon law is unconstitutional (2nd amendment) Don't know if it is or not. The Oregon Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, and doesnt have the militia mumbo jumbo. confusing, no? No wonder the cops look puzzled.

As long as nobody gets hurt, I think I glad these guys are doing this. They are educating the public - about the insanity of our gun laws.

Conservatively as I may lean, I draw something of a parallel between the 1st amendment and yelling "fire" in a theater, to the 2nd amendment and this activity.

Causing people unnecessary worry or concern for the sake of making your point, even to the lock down of a school, is just wrong. Regardless of rights. If these guys were carrying their guns to trade at a gun show or something, that's one thing. But parading around with them - legally or not - is more injurious to their cause than anything.

Then again, our fair city allows illegal activities, like protesters camping in parks and closing down streets. So the city has helped set a precedent for aberrant behavior and testing limits.

I've got to agree, PDXLifer. The real issue isn't whether they have the right to bear those arms in that fashion. It's whether they're smart enough to realize that their little act-out fit in public doesn't exactly help their case. (Similarly, I've argued for years against the idiots who bring big snakes or lizards to the grocery store or to music events "to educate the public", no matter how badly herpetophobes may react to a Burmese python or savannah monitor in public. That isn't education. Education is setting up events that allow people to come up of their own accord and learn without having the snake shoved in their faces. As with these two, this is purely a cry of "Look at MEEEEEEEEE!")

"Idiots."

Yes, they really are idiots. I looked at his youtube channel the other day. Read about him in The Oregonian but turns out he's a local Southern Oregon boy.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/01/rifle_toting_activist_in_portl.html#incart_river

From the link:

Drouin, on his Facebook page, says he was home schooled and offers the following description, which contains spelling errors: "I am a full flesh libertarian and a gun right extremest. We the people should control our government and bring us back to when we had and own our Life, Liberty, and Property. I hate socialist, dictators, and corrupt Government. We are losing are rights every day while not knowing it and then it become to late."

Maybe these two guys oughtta join the military and go to Afghanistan or wherever. Oh wait, going to a war isn't something spineless pseudo-patriots who are really cowards usually want to do.

Whats really scary is the fact that most people don't even think twice about a government agent walking around with the same type of weapon plus body armor.

So - does the "open carry" law mean i can walk around in a bathrobey looking garmet with a keffiyeh on my noggin and a few kalashnikovs (the semi-auto type) in front of the World Trade Center (i'm talking about the WTC in Portland where "open carry" is legal)?

"Why didn't the cops just open fire?"

Maybe the cops thought those MIGHT be cell phones?

Those guys are white.

"I think I glad these guys are doing this. They are educating the public - about the insanity of our gun laws." I agree I too think it's insane that our gun laws allow these two to carry around loaded assault rifles in public. If I had seen this I probably would have needed a change of underwear.

Has anybody actually looked at the laws? There's nothing about the concealed handgun license that allows you to open carry a longarm, or even a knife. It's a CONCEALED (not open) HANDGUN (not longarm, knife, or other weapon) LICENSE (not permit, the government doesn't grant you permission because you already have it from the Constitution). I have no idea what the law in Oregon is about open carry, but I hope the police officers know, and the fact that they let the men continue their open carry probably means that open carry does not violate any Oregon law.

With tens if not hundreds of 911 calls ordinary citizens were no doubt alarmed. And the nearby Creative Minds Learning Center went on lockdown and there were police resources diverted in Portland and earlier in Gresham.

I was thinking that this could be a form of disorderly conduct (aka breach of peace) so I looked it up and found:
ORS 166.025 Disorderly conduct in the second degree

(1) A person commits the crime of disorderly conduct in the second degree if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, the person:

(a) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior;

(b) Makes unreasonable noise;

(c) Disturbs any lawful assembly of persons without lawful authority;

(d) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic on a public way;

(e) Congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse;

(f) Initiates or circulates a report, knowing it to be false, concerning an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, catastrophe or other emergency; or

(g) Creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which the person is not licensed or privileged to do.

To this layman, it seems like what these guys did falls short of this --- sub(e) is close but no cigar. I wonder if the Legislature will discuss including non-concealed carry in the public way or within x hundred feet of a school?

From another forum, an answer to Tom's point about open carry and the concealed weapon permit:

"Isn't this crazy. We live in an open carry state yet the city of Portland and about 5 other cities have modified their laws making it illegal to open carry unless you possess a Oregon Concealed Handgun License. We must continue to fight for the 2nd amendment."

I meant Kai's question, answered above.

Thanks for posting that, Bingo.

Not to hijack the thread, but the text of ORS 166.025 (Disorderly conduct) pretty much describes "occupy" all of the time.

Wait there were people with guns and no one got hurt???

My shocked face!

“Was I looking threatening?" says Mr. Homeschooled. No, you were looking like an insane person stalking the streets with high-capacity people killers slung on your back. What possible purpose could openly carrying these things down an urban sidewalk have for the casual observer. Nutjobs who commit mass shootings are also able to put on a calm outward appearance. The only rational response to these morons was to take cover and call 911. Because crazy doesn't show on the outside.

Sure, it's legal. So is walking down the sidewalk and saying f___ you to everyone you meet. It's stupid and rude, and ruins the day of everyone you encounter. Congratulations to these guys for demonstrating that any idiot can buy a gun. Poster child for home schooling.

Not much more to add to what's above, but regardless of personal philosophies, rights anymore seem to be argued as more defining of the appropriateness of an event than responsibilities. I think that's back-assward.

These young men are only 22 years old....frontal lobe brain development is incomplete at this age. This may explain their behavior.

In the video of the PPB encounter with the guys in Sellwood I thought the cops (notable Off. Dave McCormick) behaved very professionally and calmly represented their interest in stopping them and asking their questions. He said to the guy " I want to you try and step back and understand the position of the public...they are nervous..." It seems like this appeal to empathize with others fell on deaf ears, but I applaud the officer for trying so well..

If you make it through to the end of the video a different Officer tells the kid to check out "Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership". Advice from a police officer, how considerate! I Googled JPFO and found that they describe themselves as "America's most aggressive defender of firearms ownership" and who denounce the NRA for not being more vigilant and strident in 2nd amendment defense.

I found it strange that the PPB officer give this unsolicited suggestion to "check them out" to a guy who travels from Medford to Portland to provoke the public.


Sponsors


As a lawyer/blogger, I get
to be a member of:

In Vino Veritas

Louis Jadot, Pouilly-Fuissé 2011
Trader Joe's, Grower's Reserve Pinot Noir 2012
Zenato, Lugana San Benedetto 2012
Vintjs, Cabernet 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White 2012
Rainstorm, Oregon Pinot Gris 2012
Silver Palm, North Coast Cabernet 2011
Andrew Rich, Gewurtztraminer 2008
Rodney Strong, Charlotte's Home Sauvignon Blanc 2012
Canoe Ridge, Pinot Gris, Expedition 2012
Edmunds St. John, Bone-Jolly Gamay Noir Rose 2012
Dark Horse, Big Red Blend No. 01A
Elk Cove, Pinot Noir Rose 2012
Fletcher, Shiraz 2010
Picollo, Gavi 2011
Domaine Eugene Carrel, Jongieux 2012
Eyrie, Pinot Blanc 2010
Atticus, Pinot Noir 2010
Walter Scott, Pinot Noir, Holstein 2011
Shingleback, Cabernet, Davey Estate 2010
Coppola, Sofia Rose 2012
Joel Gott, 851 Cabernet 2010
Pol Roget Reserve Sparkling Wine
Mount Eden Chardonnay, Santa Cruz Mountains 2009
Rombauer Chardonnay, Napa Valley 2011
Beringer, Chardonnay, Napa Reserve 2011
Kim Crawford, Sauvignon Blanc 2011
Schloss Vollrads, Spaetlese Rheingau 2010
Belle Glos, Pinot Noir, Clark & Telephone 2010
WillaKenzie, Pinot Noir, Estate Cuvee 2010
Blackbird Vineyards, Arise, Red 2010
Chauteau de Beaucastel, Chateauneuf-du-Pape 2005
Northstar, Merlot 2008
Feather, Cabernet 2007
Silver Oak, Cabernet, Alexander Valley 2002
Silver Oak, Cabernet, Napa Valley 2002
Trader Joe's, Chardonnay, Grower's Reserve 2012
Silver Palm, Cabernet, North Coast 2010
Shingleback, Cabernet, Davey Estate 2010
E. Guigal, Cotes du Rhone 2009
Santa Margherita, Pinot Grigio 2011
Alamos, Cabernet 2011
Cousino Macul, Cabernet, Anitguas Reservas 2009
Dreaming Tree Cabernet 2010
1967, Toscana 2009
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009

The Occasional Book

Maria Dermoȗt - The Ten Thousand Things
William Faulkner - As I Lay Dying
Markus Zusak - The Book Thief
Christopher Buckley - Thank You for Smoking
William Shakespeare - Othello
Joseph Conrad - Heart of Darkness
Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything
Cheryl Strayed - Tiny Beautiful Things
Sara Varon - Bake Sale
Stephen King - 11/22/63
Paul Goldstein - Errors and Omissions
Mark Twain - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Steve Martin - Born Standing Up: A Comic's Life
Beverly Cleary - A Girl from Yamhill, a Memoir
Kent Haruf - Plainsong
Hope Larson - A Wrinkle in Time, the Graphic Novel
Rudyard Kipling - Kim
Peter Ames Carlin - Bruce
Fran Cannon Slayton - When the Whistle Blows
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt

Road Work

Miles run year to date: 119
At this date last year: 21
Total run in 2013: 257
In 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269


Clicky Web Analytics