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Saturday, December 15, 2012

A message to Oregon taxpayers

No, he doesn't respect you this morning.

Comments (29)

Let me go on record now predicting no expansion, no jobs, and no big capital investment. Oh, and naturally, no consequences.

"State government for sale, discounts available, apply within".

Male whore!

Oh goody- this must mean that Nike will bring back all those overseas jobs and put Oregonians back to work!

I wonder if the legislators ever stopped to think how a public vote would go on this.

Can you imagine the rhetoric if it was suggested the public should vote on it?

It would be smart legislators lecturing the stupid public on how they were elected to make these decisions for us.

The idea that Nike would pack up and move their Nike World Headquarters out of state if this was not approved has to be one of most deceitful plays in Oregon history.

If Phil Knight is such a person that he would pull the plug on his lengthy Oregon investments and philanthropy over a relative minor tax beef then he is a horrible horrible person.

I don't believe he would or is.

I do believe he is savvy businessman and went for this because he was certain Kitzhaber and the legislators would sit up and roll over.

They have proven over and over again to be a group of mostly talentless, weak & ineffectual saps.

Reading their justification for this farce is as sickening as listening to the justification for the Tram of the Portland-Milwaukie magical mystery madness.

But when you have a group of Vera Katz/Sam Adams types running everything nothing is surprising.

I thought he would at least call . . . .

Wait, they cut the deal down from 40 years to 30 years? Way to make a stand you spineless a-holes.

Let me contrast this with how a humble citizen is treated by the Government of Oregon. Specifically with a little gem called the Tri-Met Self Employment Tax that taxes people within a district so we can have more trains, etc..

Let's say I wrote jokes that were sent out of state, examined, and then bought outside the state. There is a form called TSE-AP with "Sales Factor Only" on it and "Total within district" where you compute the percentage of sales here versus outside the district.

Stay with me. I assumed that sales within the district would mean....wait for it...the sales within the district. If nobody bought any of my jokes in the state of Oregon and the district was in Oregon that would be zero.....

But what it really means is if you wrote the joke in the district and sold it anywhere in the world, you were to be taxed here so that a train or light rail or bus could be funded, because OF COURSE, I need a bus or train to sit in my basement and write jokes.

Ironically, if I had taken a car out of the district, wrote the joke there, and then sold the jokes to the Mayor of Portland sitting in the heart of the district, that would still not be a sale within the district because...oh never mind....

F*ck NIKE, F*ck Tri-Met, and F*ck the Corporate Takeover of Government.

To paraphrase our distinguished host: Worst. Govenor. Ever.

Time to reserve a moving van if you haven't already. What a joke the legislature proved once again. Falling over themselves to vote for this giveaway. They certainly earned their John H. Mitchell Award for Public Integrity yesterday.

Bill, you can't just take your car out of the district without asking permission from the good congressman Earl, he saw your post and has it all covered. I'll just add a side note here, F*ck life long politicians.

It is just a dispiriting thing to see your elected officials publicly debased by the corporate overlords.

B - exactly. There is a provision in the bill that would allow OR to sue Nike for lost revenue if they do not deliver. Right, that's going to happen. lol To quote Walter "Just because we're bereaved doesn't mean we're saps!"

"You can almost say Nike and Oregon share DNA," she said.

Yes, our shame is well-earned. Didn't Halfway sell it's name to some e-tailer and become,_Oregon

Same deal, just statewide.

What Bill said !

It is just a dispiriting thing to see your elected officials publicly debased by the corporate overlords.

Dispiriting it has been for a long time, with our city council too!
Looks like some people were thoroughly disgusted enough to say No to the system.
Take a look at the Under Votes!
Mayor’s race: Write-in votes: 19,966 Under Votes: 38,051
Commissioner, Pos. 1 City of Portland Fritz/Nolan race:
Write-in Votes: 2,366 Under Votes: 67,988

70,354 people could not/would not vote for Amanda nor Nolan, wonder how Amanda feels about that for being "liked?" I don't think these people care about being liked as long as they get to stay in the special club is what matters to them. This was most likely "understood" by those in the legislature who wish to stay in.
Maybe this legislative vote will get even more people engaged and outraged enough to stop voting for those in the club.

Seems to me I've heard this before. A Republican legislator notes as a postscript in his commentary about the bill:

"It should also be noted what we are doing is unconstitutional on two points. The first point is no Legislative Assembly can commit a future Legislative Assembly to any action or inaction, and this measure clearly does that. The second point is the Constitution is very clear on taxes being equitable for all, and this measure does a specific carve out."

I've also said before that I do not blame Nike for not wanting to get caught on the hook of impending tax increases to fund Oregon's ridiculous PERS promises and deficits. I guess as an individual, my only choice will be to move.


Move where? Have you read the news the last five years? Every state has public retirement liability problems. Oregon's better compared to most states:

Not that PERS isn't a problem. It is, just not as bad as others.
Of course Blumenauer style, use existing money for his light rail, bike projects instead of road infrastructure and then create a “new” way of funding for the roads, that can open the door for all kinds of clamping down on people, more invasion into our every day movement. Once these “devices” are placed in our vehicles, what next?

Uh, all those who voted for Gov. Retread, raise their hands. . . . .what I thought.

Five (5) months and I'm outta' here. PDX will look good in my rear view mirror.

ws: point taken .... at least halfway. I do read the news. I have read "comparisons" in the last year or two that put Oregon's per capita burden in the top tenth. Gotta wonder what factors are compared, and how easily they are reduced to lies, damn lies and statistics. What is less debatable -- would you agree -- is the chunk the PERS liability is taking out of current agency budgets, and headed to taking more, significantly more.

Is there some other reason the Democratic legislature and Governor are going to soon move to raise taxes? If there is, I don't know what it is.

You know that separation of powers thing in our government? It oughta be amended to include what's become a defacto fourth leg -- corporations.

"Uh, all those who voted for Gov. Retread, raise their hands. . . . .what I thought."

How rude of you! Don't you know that Saps and Rubes don't like to be reminded of their votes? They'd rather just bitch and moan about the officials that they vote for, and then vote for them again, and bitch n moan some more.

Hey WS: We moved to Nevada in 2009 and in the next full tax year we saved over $12K in various taxes we paid to the public thieves in Oregon. Best of all, we live in a far nicer home than we ever had in Oregon, have lower utility and garbage costs and see no public "services" we are missing out on here - no matter what the jerks in Salem and Portland City Hall want you to believe.

Dave A. -

Not trying to be rude here, but you need o consider:

It sure is nice of all those folks from elsewhere to flock to Nevada, get fleeced in he casinos, and then go home.

Without the gambling revenue taxes, Nevada would be a sorry mess.

Sort of like Curry, Coos and Josephine Counties in Oregon, dying because of the cut off in federal timber support payments.

Enjoy the subsidy from outsiders while it lasts.

Jus' saying.

Yeah, agreed, Nonny. The Nevada experiment is not something any state should try and reproduce, even if you believe in super low taxes.

Even with gambling, that place is a mess.


You're going to have to run some numbers by me or a link to a website. I have never heard that PERS is one of the worst.

I think living in Oregon and seeing that PERS is causing 25% increases in employer contribution this last year -- or whatever it was -- makes it seem like we're one the worst. And I'm not a state debt apologist (and am particularly critical of public pensions, etc.).

Click on Oregon and other states.

Here's something interesting. California not looking so hot on the graph as debt/capital as a measurement of GSP:

IMHO, all that was accomplished in Salem Friday is that the Governor and Legislature guaranteed that Nike would continue to pay no Oregon state income taxes for he next 30 years, just like hey have been paying zero Oregon state income taxes for he las 10 or so years since he "single facor sales formula was adopted.

Think about it.

Were does Nike report its sales to, say Fred Meyer, as taking place?

At the Memphis, Tennessee Nike distribution center?

In Cinncinatti, Ohio where Kroger "lives"?

At the Freddie's warehouse complex in Milwaukie, OR?

Same questions with respect to where does Nike reports it's sales to Dave's Sporting Goods, or Footlocker, as taking place? Memphis? Pennsylvania for Dave's? New York for Footlocker?

I'm sure Nike's sales take place in whatever of those jurisdictions have the lowest tax rate.

And the elitist snob in me says that is Tennessee.

Outside of the relatively small volume at the Nike sore in PDX, Nike doesn't sell at retail in Oregon.

With the "single factor - sales" formula which Oregon requires of multi state / multinational corporate income tax filers, I'd bet that Nike's state corporate income tax paid in Oregon is very close to zero.

And think about where much of Nike's business deductions are situated. The salaries of those highly paid folks just outside Beaverton are all deductions from Nike's gross before arriving at taxable income.

Certainly Nike pays some property tax in Washington County, though Nike has minimized that, too. It certainly doesn't pay property tax to Beaverton, having also bought a "fix" from the Legislature for that.

Nike is real good at buying "fixes" from the Legislature. Reminds me why the Southern Pacific Railroad was incorporated in Kentucky (yep, Kentucky, not California nor Delaware) for so many years. SP of course bought legislatures everywhere in addition to Frankfort; Sacramento, Austin, Baton Rouge, just being samples of SP's portfolio.

By contrast, I suspect that Fred Meyer / Kroger pays whopping corporate income taxes to Oregon. Awful hard for Freddie's to argue it doesn't make "sales" in Oregon. I also suspect Freddie's total real estate tax bill in Oregon exceeds that of Nike.

It sure would be interesting for a bunch of good economists, accountants and auditors, as an academic exercise, to figure out just what is the dollar cost of public services Nike consumes in Oregon each year, and compare that to Nike's tax payments, both income and real estate.

Among the costs for public services Nike gets are the cost of the absurd traffic jams in its primarily car access headquarters which Nike imposes on the local jurisdictions; the pollution those cars cause, and the impact upon local school districts of he kids of Nike employees. No way the real estate taxes paid by those employees covers the school costs.

I have a gut feel that Nike receives more in public services in Oregon than it pays in taxes.

Figuring the real estate taxes paid is easy.

Figuring income tax paid is harder. Anybody wanna' hold their breath waiting for Uncle Phil to allow anybody outside DOR to look at the Oregon corporate tax return?

Between the various SEC filings; annual reports, and various prospectuses one might get an approximation, but I doubt it would be very accurate as to income taxes.

And chowder heads like Ginny Burdick, who lack two brain cells to rub together, natter on about that "...wonderful, wonderful..." company, Nike.

Yeah, right.

"Here's something interesting. California not looking so hot on the graph as debt/capital as a measurement of GSP:"

Heckuva website, ws. Thank you. If I counted correctly, only 12 states had a higher per capita debt burden than Oregon. So I could move to 37 other states and be some measure relieved?

I had actually heard or read somewhere in the last year or two that Oregon's per-capita was worse than California, but that appears far from the truth.

As far as "corporate tax," there is the argument that corporations don't really pay taxes; they are passed onto shareholders or customers, etc. Against Nike, one could argue that their lower tax burden constitutes taxes others in-state will pay. In Nike's defense, one could argue that the increased employment base could do more than make up that difference to the state.


only 12 states had a higher per capita debt burden than Oregon.

...No, Oregon's debt per capita is about middle of the pack as percentage of GSP. The graph shows state debt per capita. California actually isn't that bad per capita and GSP. Their total debt is astounding, but they're a big state and have lots of upside if the economy loosens up a bit.


I count 20 states worse than Oregon measuring private-sector debt per capita as percentage of GSP. You state that California is a big state and has "lots of upside if the economy loosens up a bit." I don't see that for Oregon; do you? This is my home state and the changes I've seen over time have not been upwards.

At any rate, that state budget and debt report's overarching conclusions add heavy weight to the huge jumps in our state agency funding going toward current and past public employee benefits that spell dire times and big tax battles ahead. Is that Kitzhaber's next move? (And btw, mtnlion, I'm sure we did not all vote for him.)

Thanks again for that website, ws. A goldmine there, excuse the irony.


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