Detail, east Portland photo, courtesy Miles Hochstein / Portland Ground.



For old times' sake
The bojack bumper sticker -- only $1.50!

To order, click here.







Excellent tunes -- free! And on your browser right now. Just click on Radio Bojack!






E-mail us here.

About

This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on November 30, 2012 7:48 AM. The previous post in this blog was Breaking news: Taxes are lower now than under Carter. The next post in this blog is Adams-Ruiz weirdness ending as it began. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

Archives

Links

Law and Taxation
How Appealing
TaxProf Blog
Mauled Again
Tax Appellate Blog
A Taxing Matter
TaxVox
Tax.com
Josh Marquis
Native America, Discovered and Conquered
The Yin Blog
Ernie the Attorney
Conglomerate
Above the Law
The Volokh Conspiracy
Going Concern
Bag and Baggage
Wealth Strategies Journal
Jim Hamilton's World of Securities Regulation
myCorporateResource.com
World of Work
The Faculty Lounge
Lowering the Bar
OrCon Law

Hap'nin' Guys
Tony Pierce
Parkway Rest Stop
Utterly Boring.com
Along the Gradyent
Dwight Jaynes
Bob Borden
Dingleberry Gazette
The Red Electric
Iced Borscht
Jeremy Blachman
Dean's Rhetorical Flourish
Straight White Guy
HinesSight
Onfocus
Jalpuna
Beerdrinker.org
As Time Goes By
Dave Wagner
Jeff Selis
Alas, a Blog
Scott Hendison
Sansego
The View Through the Windshield
Appliance Blog
The Bleat

Hap'nin' Gals
My Whim is Law
Lelo in Nopo
Attorney at Large
Linda Kruschke
The Non-Consumer Advocate
10 Steps to Finding Your Happy Place
A Pig of Success
Attorney at Large
Margaret and Helen
Kimberlee Jaynes
Cornelia Seigneur
Mireio
And Sew It Goes
Mile 73
Rainy Day Thoughts
That Black Girl
Posie Gets Cozy
{AE}
Cat Eyes
Rhi in Pink
Althouse
GirlHacker
Ragwaters, Bitters, and Blue Ruin
Frytopia
Rose City Journal
Type Like the Wind

Portland and Oregon
Isaac Laquedem
StumptownBlogger
Rantings of a [Censored] Bus Driver
Jeff Mapes
Vintage Portland
The Portlander
South Waterfront
Amanda Fritz
O City Hall Reporters
Guilty Carnivore
Old Town by Larry Norton
The Alaunt
Bend Blogs
Lost Oregon
Cafe Unknown
Tin Zeroes
David's Oregon Picayune
Mark Nelsen's Weather Blog
Travel Oregon Blog
Portland Daily Photo
Portland Building Ads
Portland Food and Drink.com
Dave Knows Portland
Idaho's Portugal
Alameda Old House History
MLK in Motion
LoveSalem

Retired from Blogging
Various Observations...
The Daily E-Mail
Saving James
Portland Freelancer
Furious Nads (b!X)
Izzle Pfaff
The Grich
Kevin Allman
AboutItAll - Oregon
Lost in the Details
Worldwide Pablo
Tales from the Stump
Whitman Boys
Misterblue
Two Pennies
This Stony Planet
1221 SW 4th
Twisty
I am a Fish
Here Today
What If...?
Superinky Fixations
Pinktalk
Mellow-Drama
The Rural Bus Route
Another Blogger
Mikeyman's Computer Treehouse
Rosenblog
Portland Housing Blog

Wonderfully Wacky
Dave Barry
Borowitz Report
Blort
Stuff White People Like
Worst of the Web

Valuable Time-Wasters
My Gallery of Jacks
Litterbox, On the Prowl
Litterbox, Bag of Bones
Litterbox, Scratch
Maukie
Ride That Donkey
Singin' Horses
Rally Monkey
Simon Swears
Strong Bad's E-mail

Oregon News
KGW-TV
The Oregonian
Portland Tribune
KOIN
Willamette Week
KATU
The Sentinel
Southeast Examiner
Northwest Examiner
Sellwood Bee
Mid-County Memo
Vancouver Voice
Eugene Register-Guard
OPB
Topix.net - Portland
Salem Statesman-Journal
Oregon Capitol News
Portland Business Journal
Daily Journal of Commerce
Oregon Business
KPTV
Portland Info Net
McMinnville News Register
Lake Oswego Review
The Daily Astorian
Bend Bulletin
Corvallis Gazette-Times
Roseburg News-Review
Medford Mail-Tribune
Ashland Daily Tidings
Newport News-Times
Albany Democrat-Herald
The Eugene Weekly
Portland IndyMedia
The Columbian

Music-Related
The Beatles
Bruce Springsteen
Seal
Sting
Joni Mitchell
Ella Fitzgerald
Steve Earle
Joe Ely
Stevie Wonder
Lou Rawls

E-mail, Feeds, 'n' Stuff

Friday, November 30, 2012

Breaking news: If you toll I-5, you'll have to toll I-205

Willy Week, which has run many an editorial disguised as a news article about the proposed I-5 Interstate Bridge replacement, shrieked yesterday that if a toll is placed on the new bridge, commuters will flock to the Glen Jackson Bridge, I-205, instead. Well, of course -- it's hard to imagine a reasonable person thinking otherwise. There would have to be tolls on both bridges.

The howler of the story is a quotation from the author of a recent study on the subject. (They needed a study?)

With so many drivers saying they'll divert their route, it's likely that I-205 would become congested.

"Become" congested? "Become"? Anybody who tries to commute on that span during weekday rush hours knows the irony of that word.

Comments (17)

The Glenn Jackson Bridge has sufficient capacity for the average daily commute. Unless there's an accident.

The bottlenecks on I-205 occur near the interchange with I-84, then in SE Portland (I believe it's near Powell), then in West Linn, west of the Willamette.

Similarly, the CRC isn't the worst bottleneck on I-5: the traffic frequently is moving much faster over the bridge than it is between the Fremont Bridge (merge with) I-5 North all the way to Jantzen Beach.

If they just replace the CRC without addressing the other bottlenecks in NE and NoPo, they've accomplished very little in terms of shortening the commute.

The article mentions tolls will cover only 1/3 of the cost of the project, but fails to mention 1/3 of the cost of the project is for 2 miles of light rail.

I suspect the people who did the "study" are locked in their windowless cubicles, do not drive, and live in cr-apartments.
And what Mister Tee said.

And if the PDOT dude would get off his awesome skateboard and do away with the carpool line for 3 miles on I-5 northbound, like Vancouver did when they realized just how much congestion it caused southbound I-5, maybe, just maybe we could move some traffic and really not need a new bridge.

I-205 will become (more) congested (for longer), as will I-84 and other east/west routes. Travelers with no alternative to I-205 will be screwed because they won't have the option of paying a toll when they are running late. They lose more than the toll-dodgers.

The winners here would be travelers from/to North Portland and NE; I-5 is going to look a lot better with a bridge toll. If I lived in NoPo, I'd be screaming for a toll on the bridge.

Mister Twee has some valid points. Part of the reason the CRC costs so much is it includes very expensive improvements to I-5 south of the bridge, which benefits NoPo tremendously. Fix those interchanges and things will look much smoother all the way back to 405. Toll the thing and it might look good through Broadway and 84.

But this poll is not news - people can SAY whatever they want to say, but most drivers will pony up and pay the toll when the alternative is a longer, more-congested slog through I-205.

Both routes will be very congested for much of the day in 20 years, but since no one wants to pay to widen roads (through taxes or tolls) and the days of roadway planners using eminent domain to build new roads are pretty much over -- nothing is going to get done about it. (Except making the high density 'cr-apartments' more attractive to young people.)

It's a problem all over this state. We get into petty arguments about bikes vs. cars and what color road lanes are painted, meanwhile the freeways are clogging up and businesses reliant on freight are going to move out (especially on I-5 south of PDX). When Intel sails away to Texas or Utah, it's going to be too late. Unless....

Why not toll both bridges now and put the receipts in a segregated account for new bridge construction? It would immediately reduce the number of bridge crossings and delay the need for a new bridge for at least five years (my estimate). Save up some money now for use in the future. What a novel concept.

Bill H, you dreamer, you. Segregation is raaaaacist! Also, you underestimate the schemers, highbinders, con men, crooked pols (but I repeat myself) the citizens and denizens of Portland have elected.

I've been on the 205 bridge, crawling along, stopping, moving a few feet, rinse, repeat...

Anthony: The article mentions tolls will cover only 1/3 of the cost of the project, but fails to mention 1/3 of the cost of the project is for 2 miles of light rail.
JK: That is just the tip of the iceberg.
* Without light rail, there is not urgent need to rebuild 4 interchanges in Vancouver tor ½ Billion. (Light rail was originally planned to go up I5, requiring widening of the overpasses.

* Without light rail, Hayden island gets simpler.

* Without light rail, ONLY ONE double deck bridge is required instead of two. Another alomst ½ Billion saved.

So, I believe that the real cos tof light rail is closer to 2 Billion.

A simple bridge, like the I205 bridge should come in at about ½ billion. Add another 1/4 for the on-off ramps.

The current plan calls for the two states to pay a bit under a billion - more than enough to pay the local match of just a bridge. See: http://www.nobridgetolls.com/i205.html

Thanks
JK

Bill H -
Tolling the I5 bridge won't reduce bridge crossings, it'll just extort money from commuters who have no choice about using the bridge to go to/from work. And no offense, but as Sam T said, the idea that the elected offal in this city/state will keep their paws off a pile of "segregated" cash is simply laughable.

The proposed budget for the I-5 Interstate Bridge replacement includes: $938M in new starts funding from the federal highway trust fund that pays for 100 percent of the capital costs for light rail (local funding for the highway portion of the project is considered to be the local match as per Washington State Senator Patty Murray); another projected $400M from the Federal Highway Trust fund for projects of National and Regional Significance (that helps pay for the separated bicycle deck on the bridge and all the connecting bicycle infrastructure that is being tacked on to the project); $450M each from ODOT & WashDOT (likely from gas taxes and other motorist paid fees); and $1.3 billion in highway user tolls.

Does anybody see anything missing? All the funding, 100 percent of the entire project costs are coming from drivers. Zero percent of the capital costs are coming from transit (light tail) paid user fees or bicyclist paid user fees. Financial equity of any kind is totally missing. The users of all transport modes will receive a benefit from a new bridge. Therefore, if the bridge is to be tolled, it also must be paid by the users of all transport modes.

I agree with Bill H. - if you're going to toll the bridges anyways, start now. If congestion is reduced as a result of the tolls (which seems likely) then perhaps the money can be spent on the more congested intersections, which as people have mentioned above would probably do more than a new bridge.

Somewhere in the not too distant past, maybe around 2006 or 2007, I attended a meeting where this very issue of the need to toll both or the drivers would be moving to 205 came up. What has taken so long for this to get someone's attention? How imbecilic are the people running this mess?

Why not toll both bridges now and put the receipts in a segregated account for new bridge construction?

Because it's against federal law.

Why not eliminate the most controversial aspect of the CRC, the light rail, reduce the price tag by 50%, and get the job done?

There's no requirement for light rail...

If I'm not mistaken, they can't toll the I-205 bridge without losing federal maintenance funding. Tolling can only be allowed on interstates if a) it's a pre-Eisenhower tollway that's been grandfathered (e.g. the Pennsylvania Turnpike), or b) the money from the tolling the interstate is going directly toward improvements on that particular stretch. Case B, if I recall correctly, was not allowed until the passage of SAFETEA-LU in 2005. Any other tolling on designated interstate highways means no federal funding can be used.

The simple fact is that the CRC doesn't make sense on any level. It's a Trojan Horse of a project, touted as a freeway "improvement", when in actuality, it's anything but.

One tolling study presented at a meeting a few years ago concluded that with tolls, the traffic would reduce enough to not require a new bridge.

Thanks
JK

Oregon's politicians are indebted for political contributions from the unions, contractors, and vendors for light rail construction.

They can't support the CRC without light rail because their transportation philosophy is (mostly) anti-automobile. They'll continue to ride around in cars, fly on jets, and take contributions from the unions, contractors, vendors, and real estate sharpies. But only if they can deliver more pork.

When the gravy train ends, likely followed by a US dollar crash, they'll look back on these times and wonder, "what were we thinking?"

Ditto for the convention center expansion, the convention center hotel, the streetcars, and Tri-Met's love affair with rail while they underfund buses.

JK was close: the I205 bridge cost $450 million (planning, design, permitting, construction) and includes bike/ped deck. It was also built with light rail in mind.


Sponsors


As a lawyer/blogger, I get
to be a member of:

In Vino Veritas

If You See Kay, Red 2011
Turnbull, Old Bull Red 2010
Cherry Tart, Cherry Pie Pinot Noir 2012
Trader Joe's Grand Reserve Cabernet, Oakville 2012
Benton Lane, Pinot Gris 2012
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Reserva 2008
Haden Fig, Pinot Noir 2012
Pendulum Red 2011
Vina Real, Plata, Crianza Rioja 2009
Edmunds St. John, Bone/Jolly, Gamay Noir Rose 2013
Bookwalter, Subplot No. 26
Ayna, Tempranillo 2011
Pete's Mountain, Pinot Noir, Haley's Block 2010
Apaltagua, Reserva Camenere 2012
Lugana, San Benedetto 2012
Argyle Brut 2007
Wildewood Pinot Gris 2012
Anciano, Tempranillo Reserva 2007
Santa Rita, Reserva Cabernet 2009
Casone, Toscana 2008
Fonseca Porto, Bin No. 27
Louis Jadot, Pouilly-Fuissé 2011
Trader Joe's, Grower's Reserve Pinot Noir 2012
Zenato, Lugana San Benedetto 2012
Vintjs, Cabernet 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White 2012
Rainstorm, Oregon Pinot Gris 2012
Silver Palm, North Coast Cabernet 2011
Andrew Rich, Gewurtztraminer 2008
Rodney Strong, Charlotte's Home Sauvignon Blanc 2012
Canoe Ridge, Pinot Gris, Expedition 2012
Edmunds St. John, Bone-Jolly Gamay Noir Rose 2012
Dark Horse, Big Red Blend No. 01A
Elk Cove, Pinot Noir Rose 2012
Fletcher, Shiraz 2010
Picollo, Gavi 2011
Domaine Eugene Carrel, Jongieux 2012
Eyrie, Pinot Blanc 2010
Atticus, Pinot Noir 2010
Walter Scott, Pinot Noir, Holstein 2011
Shingleback, Cabernet, Davey Estate 2010
Coppola, Sofia Rose 2012
Joel Gott, 851 Cabernet 2010
Pol Roget Reserve Sparkling Wine
Mount Eden Chardonnay, Santa Cruz Mountains 2009
Rombauer Chardonnay, Napa Valley 2011
Beringer, Chardonnay, Napa Reserve 2011
Kim Crawford, Sauvignon Blanc 2011
Schloss Vollrads, Spaetlese Rheingau 2010
Belle Glos, Pinot Noir, Clark & Telephone 2010
WillaKenzie, Pinot Noir, Estate Cuvee 2010
Blackbird Vineyards, Arise, Red 2010
Chauteau de Beaucastel, Chateauneuf-du-Pape 2005
Northstar, Merlot 2008
Feather, Cabernet 2007
Silver Oak, Cabernet, Alexander Valley 2002
Silver Oak, Cabernet, Napa Valley 2002
Trader Joe's, Chardonnay, Grower's Reserve 2012
Silver Palm, Cabernet, North Coast 2010
Shingleback, Cabernet, Davey Estate 2010
E. Guigal, Cotes du Rhone 2009
Santa Margherita, Pinot Grigio 2011
Alamos, Cabernet 2011
Cousino Macul, Cabernet, Anitguas Reservas 2009
Dreaming Tree Cabernet 2010
1967, Toscana 2009
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009

The Occasional Book

Norman Mailer - The Naked and the Dead
Maria Dermoȗt - The Ten Thousand Things
William Faulkner - As I Lay Dying
Markus Zusak - The Book Thief
Christopher Buckley - Thank You for Smoking
William Shakespeare - Othello
Joseph Conrad - Heart of Darkness
Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything
Cheryl Strayed - Tiny Beautiful Things
Sara Varon - Bake Sale
Stephen King - 11/22/63
Paul Goldstein - Errors and Omissions
Mark Twain - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Steve Martin - Born Standing Up: A Comic's Life
Beverly Cleary - A Girl from Yamhill, a Memoir
Kent Haruf - Plainsong
Hope Larson - A Wrinkle in Time, the Graphic Novel
Rudyard Kipling - Kim
Peter Ames Carlin - Bruce
Fran Cannon Slayton - When the Whistle Blows
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt

Road Work

Miles run year to date: 220
At this date last year: 67
Total run in 2013: 257
In 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269


Clicky Web Analytics