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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on September 21, 2012 7:49 AM. The previous post in this blog was Manhunt is on in Lake Oswego. The next post in this blog is SoloPower plant finally opening: 90 jobs, not 170, to start. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

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Friday, September 21, 2012

You say yes, I say no

The first tidbit of election porn showed up on our front porch last evening, and you'll never guess -- it's "for the children":

We had to go look up what these ballot measures are really about. Measure 84 would repeal the Oregon estate tax. Measure 85 would put an end to corporate income tax "kicker" refunds. Both of these are being tied to the public schools, but hey, it's all state tax money, which the Legislature giveth and the Legislature taketh away.

We'll probably vote as this flyer suggests. The estate tax is perfectly appropriate (and in its current form, easily avoided except by the really, really wealthy), and all of the "kickers" are irresponsible.

Comments (23)

They goofed up the flyer. It was supposed to include this line:

Tell your representative to eliminate Urban Renewal funding and redirect it to the schools!

I'm reminded of how Churchill described democracy every time the kicker comes up. Sure it's irresponsible, but the Legislature is far more so. They'll blow every penny coming in and then some, and on "necessary" goodies like MLR.

The kicker is about the only brake on spending after unexpected revenue growth. The state budget would be in far worse shape if they had to cut from total actual revenue versus from net revenue. It would be nice to get rid of the gimmick but I just don't see Salem suddenly able to bank all or even much of it in the long term. If they could, they would be doing so out of the existing budget already.

How many times in the past 20+ years have we been urged to vote yes for something that was supposed to "support our schools" only to find out later that merely a portion actually wound up going to "support our schools" while the rest went to pork projects the public would have never approved.

Amen, Andrew! It would be nice to have a state reserve fund, but it would be like giving money to competitive drug addicts. Good intentions maybe, but little restraint.

I agree the kicker is shortsighted. However, based on media reports of the measure, (I don't have time to personally reader measures until they mail them to me.) I will vote no on 85.

I think kickers should go into a reserve fund by law, something that I am told this measure does not do. Also, I do not like to see business losing a chit right before the blue-jean savior starts in on 'comprehensive' tax reform.

Regardless of my no vote I would say measure 85 will pass by >65%. That is just how Oregon works.

They probably won't be able to understand their shrinking budget next year is due to the dwindling pay property taxes from me and many like me since we've moved away.

The kicker IS a form of spending - it's money that has already been collected, going out of the treasury, mostly to people who don't need it. The only difference between the kicker and any other spending is that we get absolutely nothing for it. It's as if you took 2% of your own income out of your pocket and handed it over to the nearest corporate executive.

"That is just how Oregon works."

Boy is it ever!
Oregon gets what Oregon wants and deserves!!

More evidence:
"The kicker IS a form of spending - it's money that has already been collected, going out of the treasury, mostly to people who don't need it. The only difference between the kicker and any other spending is that we get absolutely nothing for it. It's as if you took 2% of your own income out of your pocket and handed it over to the nearest corporate executive."

Yep... those evil corpexecs. Some of them will take the BizKicker and reinvest in more jobs to make more profits and even more money in their pockets. Stop them now before they become another Phil Knight.

Stop the madness!
Higher CorpBiz taxes!!
No BizKicker!!!
Higher State Income taxes!!!!

It's for the children.... (please don't look at the state employee benefits)

semi
That's the long time "repeal the kicker" campaign.

I disagree though.

A refund of one's over payment, individual or corporate is neither spending or taking 2% out of your pocket.

During the 2001 recession a Seven Days discussion on OPB David Sarasohn and friend were talking about the go go 90s and then the kicker and how it would be handy then if it had been put in a rainy day fund during the go go.

Bu then Sarasohn remarked that "really though had there not bee a kicker it would have all been spent."
The panel sat in silence for seconds unable to force themselves to say out loud that it certainly would have.

Because as they looked back on the 90's as a go go era of flush money for all, in reality at the time there was never enough with a perpetual fiscal crisis producing pleas for more.

Like now, it was all for the children.

The idiots in Salem will spend every dime that ever comes into their grasp. They have zero self control and even less wisdom.

I'd sure love to have a Constitutional Amendment that bans any change, initative or legislative, to:

1. Repealing ANY kicker
2. Enacting a sales tax

If the people that have tried repeatedly - to repeal the kicker and enact a sales tax - spent their time and effort actually fixing the root issues, we would have great schools, great government, and probably even lower taxes (thanks to less government waste). Instead it's always "we need more money!" and there's no thought into the obvious waste and mismanagement going on, that only increases costs.

You want more money? Cut the waste. FIRST. Prove to me you're a bare bones operation. Then let's talk about revenue. Maybe the schools can start off by selling off their athletic fields, reducing administrative/management by 50%, consolidate support operations into a statewide system (why does EVERY school district need curriculum developers, when every district is held to the same state standards?), stop buying expensive Apple iPads and Macintoshes and buy affordable, useful computers that only cost half as much...

If the gummint gets to keep it, they WILL spend it.

Don't let them keep it

A refund of one's over payment, individual or corporate is neither spending or taking 2% out of your pocket

But we're not talking overpayments. I agree that if the tax rate is, say, 10% and you are accidentally billed 11%, you are entitled to a refund. That's an overpayment. The kicker is a long-after-the-fact, windfall payout based on how closely state revenue projections match actual collections. Whether you favor it or not, it's a form of government spending and honest debate requires that it be acknowledged as such.

Semi-Cynic: The way I understand it is the tax rate is an estimate based on the budget, so it actually is an over-payment.

And the Kicker can be kept at any time by a vote of the legislature. Even when the Democrats had enough majorities to keep the kicker without Republican votes, they did NOT VOTE TO KEEP IT FOR SOME REASON. Hm, I wonder what they were afraid of.

Sign seen at Rally:

"It's for the Teachers (well, mostly the retired ones...well, and the administrators...we have a LOT of those)"

Another Sign at Rally:

"If this bond doesn't pass, Who'll vet future administrators?"

Capital Bond Funds Cannot Pay Operating Expenses.
We Will Cut Those 110+ teachers that the city saved this year and raise that to 200+

We will have really cool classrooms with 50+ students in each one.

It will likely pass, despite the fact that there is no guarantee that school funding will increase by any amount collected.

Sure, the kicker funds will be dedicated to education, but legislature is free to factor this into any decision for other school funding from the general fund.

Teresa: So at a taxpayer total cost of $15k/student, that 50 student class would generate $ 750,000? Or maybe PPS is planning on putting some of those hundreds of administrators in front of a classroom? JUST KIDDING !! That would bring the teacher/student ratio to say, 1:12 or so.

"Defend Oregon" is the front group for the handful of big public employee unions looking out for PERS and their own. Regardless of how you feel about estate taxes or kickers, beware the messenger and their real motives.

If the estate tax is so easily avoidable, why have it? The primary way to avoid it is to move residency out of Oregon, so we lose the income taxes. If the repeal passes, it will be a net gain in tax revenue for the state.


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If You See Kay, Red 2011
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Cherry Tart, Cherry Pie Pinot Noir 2012
Trader Joe's Grand Reserve Cabernet, Oakville 2012
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Campo Viejo, Rioja, Reserva 2008
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Vina Real, Plata, Crianza Rioja 2009
Edmunds St. John, Bone/Jolly, Gamay Noir Rose 2013
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Santa Rita, Reserva Cabernet 2009
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Fonseca Porto, Bin No. 27
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14 Hands, Hot to Trot White 2012
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Pol Roget Reserve Sparkling Wine
Mount Eden Chardonnay, Santa Cruz Mountains 2009
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Cousino Macul, Cabernet, Anitguas Reservas 2009
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1967, Toscana 2009
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The Occasional Book

John Kaplan & Jon R. Waltz - The Trial of Jack Ruby
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Keith Richards - Life
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Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
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David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
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David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
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Jeff Noon - Vurt

Road Work

Miles run year to date: 293
At this date last year: 145
Total run in 2013: 257
In 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269


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