Help me with this one: U.S. military intervention in the Libyan civil war is justified because...
Comments (35)
Because Obama wants more Repub support??
Because we have lots of cool weapons??
Because we have not learned from very recent mistakes??
Because at least we are not alone--yet??
As the world's leading democracy it's our job to support budding democratic movements where ever they occur. (Translation: ...as the kid on the block with the biggest stick it's somehow our job to get rid of all the b*sterds in the world .... at least those with oil.)
Jack my response is that we have enough on our plate supporting "budding democracies" elsewhere. Let someone else do it. Hey Libya is a former colony of Italy. Let's tell Berlusconi to take some time out from diddling 16 year old girls and take care of Libya for the world.
I'd be happier if it were Darfur. Not happy just happier.
Our justification for getting involved escapes me. I guess one could argue some Arab Nations and other allies have asked for our support, so we help to stay in the good favor with those we align with, and with our oil rich friends.
However, our supporting role includes the US providing 90% of the military hardware, and virtually all of the strategic oversight. I guess that makes it our campaign with all the others in support of the US?
Seriously, Iranian dissidents have to be asking WTF.
Easy one. Iran has a real ground military, air force, and navy, and real electronic warfare capability. Also, you can't just pull up to their shores and start bombarding without getting attacked by said military.
But all this aside, the posturing about Qadaffi by the US government is humorous. we regularly sell Libya weapons. We're the largest arms dealer in the world. And if readers can't find something to laugh about in the fact that the world's largest arms dealer being the world's largest instigator of wars, I don't know...
Does anyone in the administration have any real reason to believe that the rebels, if they are successful, will become US allies. History would suggest that belief is fantasy. Even if the rebels are successful in overthrowing Gaddafi, it will be years before someone emerges as a leader, and we will not be in a position to positively influence that result. So aren't we putting US lives at risk to aid a rebellion that, even if it is successful, will result in a government that is more likely to be an enemy than a friend. Just because two sides are fighting doesn't mean one is good and the other is bad. Sometimes they're both bad (see Iran 1979).
Easy one. Iran has a real ground military, air force, and navy, and real electronic warfare capability.
Wait...ground military? Who said anything about ground forces? Barry has been specific that we're not sending in ground forces. That is, of course, until we do.
Second, I remember hearing that same line about the Iraqis back before Desert Storm. I'd be curious how loyal the Iranian army might be were they put to the test. I suspect Ahmadinejad and the mullahs already know the answer.
WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence agencies are watching for signs that a desperate Col. Moammar Gadhafi, under attack from a coalition air assault, could resort to acts of terrorism against Western targets.
First paragraph of Salon's Glenn Greenwald blog, citing previous first paragraphs, as identified:
U.S. Raises Terrorism Alert Amid Concerns of Retaliation
Bracing for a backlash from impending war with Iraq, the Bush administration put the nation on high alert for a terrorist attack and announced that it was redoubling efforts to enhance security at home.
The decision to raise the terrorism threat level from yellow to orange, the third such move in the last six months, followed several months worth of intelligence reports indicating a strong likelihood of some type of terrorist attack or retaliation if the U.S. went to war with Iraq. Those strikes, officials said, could come from organized Al Qaeda cells or groups sent here by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, or from individuals or small groups who sympathize with them.
The New York Times, today:
American Official Warns That Qaddafi May Lash Out With New Terrorist Attacks
The United States is bracing for possible Libyan-backed terrorist attacks, President Obama’s top counterterrorism official said on Friday.
Jack, through history and truth to understand the 'orgy' of Middle East 'destabilizations' plotted by the CIA as a global imperial strategy, then turn to a bona fide Historian of historic dimension himself, the prodigious and esteemed Webster Tarpley. Classroom lessons others have paid thousands of dollars to attend are free on his blog Tarpley.NET
Recognize in advance that in order to understand global-scope imperial strategies prosecuted through tactics of decades-long logistics, you must read more than a day's news report.
The following blog post runs longer than the usual barstool explanation, as professors tend to do. Somewhere in it is the pull-quote supplied first, here, to answer a simple question about attacking Libya, or Qaddafi.
... During the most recent days, the time of the Libyan civil war, the old Suez 1956 coalition of aggressive and unreconstructed British and French neo-colonialists has also reemerged as a strange historical atavism.
The Anglo-American Empire is now undergoing a collapse phase, (although not caused by debt as claimed ....)
The overthrow of existing governments and the breakup of existing national states, wherever possible, is intended to put the brakes on this [CIA-empire] collapse by preventing the national states from taking timely political action to save themselves from the imperialist shipwreck by defecting to other power centers, reversing existing alliances. The Anglo-American plan is for a super-national empire over the planet, with a neo-feudal war of all against all on the ground.
The Threatened Return of a Multi-Polar Middle East
The current goal of London and Washington is to stop a jailbreak by their former clients. ...
oops, forgot to mention, in his essay Tarpley explains that Brazil is a 'rescuer' of Libya and so Obama is gone there to coerce Brazil to O BEY U S A and stop undermining CIA-Empire hegemony.
If we were still so concerned about Lockerbie, GWB wouldn't have taken Libya off the list of state sponsors of terror and McCain wouldn't have been meeting face-to-face with Gadaffi in 2009, just days before Megrahi's release.
Barry's getting rolled by Bill and Hill who've themselves been rolled by the Arab League who are nervous about their own hold on power, so they're setting us up to be the bad guys in case their own populations start getting ideas about revolution and such.
Come to think of it, maybe Barry's playing a double-reverse whammy here. We don't really want freedom over there, so we set ourselves up to be the heels, thus giving the despots a real bad guy for their populations to rally around.
Barack Obama's visit to Brazil had a very unpromising start after police had to quell riots against the U.S. in Rio de Janeiro with rubber bullets and tear gas...
...But after the riots he was forced to cancel an outdoor speech that he was set to give in a Rio square...
If a president Palin were doing exactly what Obama has been doing the left would be crucifying her as worse than Bush in ways limited only by their imaginations.
In my estimation Libya is getting the attention because of the global distribution of oil involves an interdependency that is fragile.
France, Germany, Italy, and others get a major portion of their oil from Libya.
If that supply is disrupted they will need to tap other sources which would then disrupt the the greater distribution and push barrel prices even higher.
Governments also realize how dependent essentially all consumables are on oil.
The price of nearly everything is at risk of ramping up and further destabilizing the gloabl economy that is already weak and vunerable.
Therefore we, and our allies, cannot allow some major markets to be cut off from their oil supply. It would chain react into a much greater problem.
Echo Ben. Add to that Hillary's announcement that she won't come back for a second tour in the Obama admin, signaling political trouble if she didnt get her way.
At least this appears to be france's quagmire (if it turns out that way).
Guys, guys, we're overthinking this. It's a training exercise.
After all, we have to train the new kids how to fire Tomahawks and since it's not wise to do it from an guided missile cruiser that's parked on the Willamette River during Portland's fleet week we might as well send them half-way around the world for their training rite.
(That's how we justify sending army troops to rescue stranded climbers on Mount Hood, and kids who get stuck on some rock out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean in high tide...)
because we support Western-backed rebels when it suits the cause of the globalists.
Hey these "rebels" (Arab terrorists in this case) even have jets!
because asking for permission is no longer possible, so they are just going to flip off "we the people" and grab whatever territory they feel like- as long as you call it a "humanitarian mission".
Bobo does what his handlers tell him to do. Wait doesn't the prez have to get congressional approval before he goes to war? Oh that's right he is a constitutional professor he don't need no stinking permission.
How about precedence established by Jefferson in commencing the First Barbary War:
"On Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, Yusuf Karamanli, the Pasha (or Bashaw) of Tripoli, demanded $225,000 from the new administration. (In 1800, Federal revenues totaled a little over $10 million.) Putting his long-held beliefs into practice, Jefferson refused the demand. Consequently, in May 1801, the Pasha declared war on the U.S., not through any formal written documents but in the customary Barbary manner of cutting down the flagstaff in front of the U.S. Consulate. Algiers and Tunis did not follow their ally in Tripoli.
In response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed American vessels to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli 'and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify.'" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
How about precedence established by Jefferson in commencing the First Barbary War:
Excellent. I have an alternative proposal: How about precedence established by Eaton and O'Bannon, almos 250 years ago? Note the bolded part:
The turning point in the war came with the Battle of Derna (April–May 1805). Ex-consul William Eaton, who went by the rank of general, and US Marine First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon led a mixed force of eight United States Marines[16] and 500 Greek, Arab, and Berber mercenaries on a march across the desert from Alexandria, Egypt to assault and to capture the Tripolitan city of Derna. ,b>This was the first time in history that the United States flag was raised in victory on foreign soil. This action was memorialized in a line from the Marines' Hymn—"the shores of Tripoli."
That's right--the glorious hymn of the Marine Corps memorializes one of the first steps of US imperialism. From there, we proceeded to wipe out most Native Americans, practice genocide throughout the Pacific, and gradually establish permanent "flags" around teh world. But like all bad historians, you like to pick and choose carefully where the story begins and ends; as if the story of Libya and Qadaffi began a few years ago, or 20 years ago, or last week. That's key to the disagreement between those who break out the flag and wave it at any American overseas activity--that the larger story is ignored for
Sorry, I meant "precedent," a term most familiar to attorneys, including the Constitutional lawyer who spoke so eloquently against a President's war-making prerogative prior to becoming one himself.
It is distressing that mainstream coverage has made Mr Wolfowitz and Mr Negroponte (John, not Nick), among other ancient voices of American imperialism, so prominent in the present gambit.
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 21
At this date last year: 52
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (35)
Because Obama wants more Repub support??
Because we have lots of cool weapons??
Because we have not learned from very recent mistakes??
Because at least we are not alone--yet??
Posted by genop | March 20, 2011 6:33 PM
As the world's leading democracy it's our job to support budding democratic movements where ever they occur. (Translation: ...as the kid on the block with the biggest stick it's somehow our job to get rid of all the b*sterds in the world .... at least those with oil.)
Jack my response is that we have enough on our plate supporting "budding democracies" elsewhere. Let someone else do it. Hey Libya is a former colony of Italy. Let's tell Berlusconi to take some time out from diddling 16 year old girls and take care of Libya for the world.
I'd be happier if it were Darfur. Not happy just happier.
Posted by Anon Too | March 20, 2011 6:36 PM
Our justification for getting involved escapes me. I guess one could argue some Arab Nations and other allies have asked for our support, so we help to stay in the good favor with those we align with, and with our oil rich friends.
However, our supporting role includes the US providing 90% of the military hardware, and virtually all of the strategic oversight. I guess that makes it our campaign with all the others in support of the US?
Posted by Gibby | March 20, 2011 6:50 PM
Because we have not spent all of our Recovery Act-Stimulus money yet.
Posted by Skipper Bob | March 20, 2011 7:04 PM
Rwanda.
Posted by Alan DeWitt | March 20, 2011 7:14 PM
Because it's easier to support Libyan revolutionaries than Iranian revolutionaries. Seriously, Iranian dissidents have to be asking WTF.
Wake me when Barry lands on the aircraft carrier.
Posted by Bean | March 20, 2011 7:17 PM
Because the UN said jump. And we couldnt be one-upped by the French.
Posted by Jon | March 20, 2011 7:23 PM
Seriously, Iranian dissidents have to be asking WTF.
Easy one. Iran has a real ground military, air force, and navy, and real electronic warfare capability. Also, you can't just pull up to their shores and start bombarding without getting attacked by said military.
But all this aside, the posturing about Qadaffi by the US government is humorous. we regularly sell Libya weapons. We're the largest arms dealer in the world. And if readers can't find something to laugh about in the fact that the world's largest arms dealer being the world's largest instigator of wars, I don't know...
Posted by the other white meat | March 20, 2011 7:28 PM
Does anyone in the administration have any real reason to believe that the rebels, if they are successful, will become US allies. History would suggest that belief is fantasy. Even if the rebels are successful in overthrowing Gaddafi, it will be years before someone emerges as a leader, and we will not be in a position to positively influence that result. So aren't we putting US lives at risk to aid a rebellion that, even if it is successful, will result in a government that is more likely to be an enemy than a friend. Just because two sides are fighting doesn't mean one is good and the other is bad. Sometimes they're both bad (see Iran 1979).
Posted by The Original Bob W | March 20, 2011 7:48 PM
Easy one. Iran has a real ground military, air force, and navy, and real electronic warfare capability.
Wait...ground military? Who said anything about ground forces? Barry has been specific that we're not sending in ground forces. That is, of course, until we do.
Second, I remember hearing that same line about the Iraqis back before Desert Storm. I'd be curious how loyal the Iranian army might be were they put to the test. I suspect Ahmadinejad and the mullahs already know the answer.
Posted by Bean | March 20, 2011 8:33 PM
Who's arming and communicating with the "rebels", I wonder?
Posted by the other white meat | March 20, 2011 8:35 PM
Because War is Peace?
Posted by Doris | March 20, 2011 8:52 PM
First paragraph, WSJ item:
First paragraph of Salon's Glenn Greenwald blog, citing previous first paragraphs, as identified: Jack, through history and truth to understand the 'orgy' of Middle East 'destabilizations' plotted by the CIA as a global imperial strategy, then turn to a bona fide Historian of historic dimension himself, the prodigious and esteemed Webster Tarpley. Classroom lessons others have paid thousands of dollars to attend are free on his blog Tarpley.NETRecognize in advance that in order to understand global-scope imperial strategies prosecuted through tactics of decades-long logistics, you must read more than a day's news report.
The following blog post runs longer than the usual barstool explanation, as professors tend to do. Somewhere in it is the pull-quote supplied first, here, to answer a simple question about attacking Libya, or Qaddafi.
Behind the 2011 Orgy of Destabilizations: Pre-Emptive Coups by the CIA to Halt an Exodus of US Satraps and Viceroys Leading to a Multipolar World, Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D., TARPLEY.net, March 15, 2011
Vote Bar and Hil for Gitmo guests housing.Posted by Tenskwatawa | March 20, 2011 8:56 PM
Because gas is four bucks a gallon.
Posted by Brendan | March 20, 2011 9:07 PM
oops, forgot to mention, in his essay Tarpley explains that Brazil is a 'rescuer' of Libya and so Obama is gone there to coerce Brazil to O BEY U S A and stop undermining CIA-Empire hegemony.
Posted by Tenskwatawa | March 20, 2011 9:08 PM
Lockerbie. And Muammi getting over on GB & USA on the recent release of that Libyan prisoner.
Posted by Mojo | March 20, 2011 9:13 PM
Because he can, and there ain't squat we can do about it!
RAY HARRIS-IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR
Posted by al m | March 20, 2011 9:22 PM
Lockerbie.
lol
If we were still so concerned about Lockerbie, GWB wouldn't have taken Libya off the list of state sponsors of terror and McCain wouldn't have been meeting face-to-face with Gadaffi in 2009, just days before Megrahi's release.
Barry's getting rolled by Bill and Hill who've themselves been rolled by the Arab League who are nervous about their own hold on power, so they're setting us up to be the bad guys in case their own populations start getting ideas about revolution and such.
Come to think of it, maybe Barry's playing a double-reverse whammy here. We don't really want freedom over there, so we set ourselves up to be the heels, thus giving the despots a real bad guy for their populations to rally around.
Ah, the Kenyans...
Posted by Bean | March 20, 2011 9:46 PM
Barack Obama's visit to Brazil had a very unpromising start after police had to quell riots against the U.S. in Rio de Janeiro with rubber bullets and tear gas...
...But after the riots he was forced to cancel an outdoor speech that he was set to give in a Rio square...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367871/Obamas-Brazil-visit-Violent-welcome-rubber-bullets-tear-gas-riots-US.html#ixzz1HDKmVe83
Are his popular speech days over?
Posted by clinamen | March 20, 2011 11:51 PM
Bill and Barack want to get Hillary out of country whenever they can.
Posted by Newleaf | March 21, 2011 5:56 AM
Because President Obama is tired of cleaning up George Bush's messes and wants a chance to clean up a mess of his own making.
Posted by Otter | March 21, 2011 8:43 AM
Is Obama a cleaner upper of Bush's messes?
If a president Palin were doing exactly what Obama has been doing the left would be crucifying her as worse than Bush in ways limited only by their imaginations.
In my estimation Libya is getting the attention because of the global distribution of oil involves an interdependency that is fragile.
France, Germany, Italy, and others get a major portion of their oil from Libya.
If that supply is disrupted they will need to tap other sources which would then disrupt the the greater distribution and push barrel prices even higher.
Governments also realize how dependent essentially all consumables are on oil.
The price of nearly everything is at risk of ramping up and further destabilizing the gloabl economy that is already weak and vunerable.
Therefore we, and our allies, cannot allow some major markets to be cut off from their oil supply. It would chain react into a much greater problem.
Does that sound rational?
Posted by Ben | March 21, 2011 9:39 AM
This is hilarious reading. Tensky excluded, where were you guys in February, 2002?
Posted by Roger | March 21, 2011 9:46 AM
...the Russians were against it.
Posted by dg | March 21, 2011 10:00 AM
Echo Ben. Add to that Hillary's announcement that she won't come back for a second tour in the Obama admin, signaling political trouble if she didnt get her way.
At least this appears to be france's quagmire (if it turns out that way).
Posted by Panchopdx | March 21, 2011 10:09 AM
Here we go again.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK4XCLc9O18
Posted by AL M | March 21, 2011 11:23 AM
Guys, guys, we're overthinking this. It's a training exercise.
After all, we have to train the new kids how to fire Tomahawks and since it's not wise to do it from an guided missile cruiser that's parked on the Willamette River during Portland's fleet week we might as well send them half-way around the world for their training rite.
(That's how we justify sending army troops to rescue stranded climbers on Mount Hood, and kids who get stuck on some rock out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean in high tide...)
Posted by Erik H. | March 21, 2011 12:09 PM
because we support Western-backed rebels when it suits the cause of the globalists.
Hey these "rebels" (Arab terrorists in this case) even have jets!
because asking for permission is no longer possible, so they are just going to flip off "we the people" and grab whatever territory they feel like- as long as you call it a "humanitarian mission".
Posted by ralph woods | March 21, 2011 12:55 PM
I like being naive. Maybe we are just doing for Libya what France did for us during our own revolution.
Posted by Bart | March 21, 2011 2:25 PM
Bobo does what his handlers tell him to do. Wait doesn't the prez have to get congressional approval before he goes to war? Oh that's right he is a constitutional professor he don't need no stinking permission.
Posted by Col Flap | March 21, 2011 8:08 PM
This guy agrees:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-president-does-not-have-power-unde#
Posted by Private Skoal | March 21, 2011 9:04 PM
How about precedence established by Jefferson in commencing the First Barbary War:
"On Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, Yusuf Karamanli, the Pasha (or Bashaw) of Tripoli, demanded $225,000 from the new administration. (In 1800, Federal revenues totaled a little over $10 million.) Putting his long-held beliefs into practice, Jefferson refused the demand. Consequently, in May 1801, the Pasha declared war on the U.S., not through any formal written documents but in the customary Barbary manner of cutting down the flagstaff in front of the U.S. Consulate. Algiers and Tunis did not follow their ally in Tripoli.
In response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed American vessels to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli 'and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
Posted by Gardiner Menefree | March 21, 2011 10:03 PM
How about precedence established by Jefferson in commencing the First Barbary War:
Excellent. I have an alternative proposal: How about precedence established by Eaton and O'Bannon, almos 250 years ago? Note the bolded part:
The turning point in the war came with the Battle of Derna (April–May 1805). Ex-consul William Eaton, who went by the rank of general, and US Marine First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon led a mixed force of eight United States Marines[16] and 500 Greek, Arab, and Berber mercenaries on a march across the desert from Alexandria, Egypt to assault and to capture the Tripolitan city of Derna. ,b>This was the first time in history that the United States flag was raised in victory on foreign soil. This action was memorialized in a line from the Marines' Hymn—"the shores of Tripoli."
That's right--the glorious hymn of the Marine Corps memorializes one of the first steps of US imperialism. From there, we proceeded to wipe out most Native Americans, practice genocide throughout the Pacific, and gradually establish permanent "flags" around teh world. But like all bad historians, you like to pick and choose carefully where the story begins and ends; as if the story of Libya and Qadaffi began a few years ago, or 20 years ago, or last week. That's key to the disagreement between those who break out the flag and wave it at any American overseas activity--that the larger story is ignored for
Posted by the other white meat | March 22, 2011 8:51 AM
The bolded part, repeated: This was the first time in history that the United States flag was raised in victory on foreign soil.
Posted by the other white meat | March 22, 2011 8:52 AM
Sorry, I meant "precedent," a term most familiar to attorneys, including the Constitutional lawyer who spoke so eloquently against a President's war-making prerogative prior to becoming one himself.
It is distressing that mainstream coverage has made Mr Wolfowitz and Mr Negroponte (John, not Nick), among other ancient voices of American imperialism, so prominent in the present gambit.
Posted by Gardiner Menefree | March 22, 2011 11:50 AM