Because the Mountain Shop has a customer parking lot behind the building, and because many retailers of all kinds and in all locations are struggling against the tide of consumer deleveraging and unemployment, I suspect the parking meters are a convenient pretext.

I never found a parking lot at The Mountain Shop, nor did they ever tell me they had one.

Not thinking OMC, are you?

I just like to point out the disparities between Dallas and Fort Worth to illustrate the financial logic. When Dallas's downtown area started to recover in the late Eighties in the wake of the oil bust, Dallas city leaders (including then-Mayor Annette Strauss, a woman so incredibly stupid that she had to be kicked in the chest to be reminded to breathe) moved rapidly. Parking meters all over everything, as well as jacked-up prices on parking lots throughout the city. The city's been involved with a lot of Sam & Rand-style games with trying to get people to come to Dallas on the weekend, but the parking issue is the one killer. Saturday and Sunday afternoon, prime shopping times in most cities, are completely dead in Dallas: the stores can't justify staying open because there's no business, and nobody wants to go downtown on a Sunday afternoon because nothing's open.

Compare that to Fort Worth. Fort Worth has a thriving art community because the city decided to shut down the meters on the weekends, and also opened the parking lots and towers in downtown to free parking. Restaurants, galleries, bars, clubs, stores...all lively, and all doing ridiculous business.

I know that any mention of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex brings on the usual whining of "Oh, I'd never live there," but I can state from experience that Fort Worth has a livelier and more varied nightlife every weekend than Portland does. Of course, a lot of that is because Fort Worth isn't blowing its money trying to attract that mythic "creative class". As a result, Fort Worth's Sundance Square is full of regular events and activities, and the crowds of spend-nothing hipsters standing around whining about how it isn't all about them are nowhere to be seen.

At least it isn't New York City...

http://www.archive.org/details/parking_1

Related to Texas, and perhaps an incentive to stop nickel and diming customers with parking meters...

A report a few days ago illustrated a creative way for state government to add more to its revenue coffers in less painful ways to the taxpayer - auctioning custom license plates.

With the increase from 6 digits to 7, Texas figured out a way to harvest additional revenue by auctioning the more desirable plates - "COWBOYS" to name one.

Granted, it doesn't help any particular city, but a truly creative way to handle things.

I'm afraid if they try this in Oregon, our DMV will perhaps spend more converting its computer system to handle the additional digits.

As for attracting business and customers to core areas of Portland - our leaders seem to be eliminating most incentives.

I was just there yesterday and parked in their parking lot. They share it with Kinkos/FedEx.

"Not thinking OMC, are you?"

Nope.

"I suspect the parking meters are a convenient pretext."

I'd agree, the bigger issue is:

"the move to Northeast 37th Avenue between Sandy Boulevard and Broadway will save $7,000 a month in rent."

Of course they put parking meters on SE Hawthorne or NW 24rd, that may kill them also.

Portland (compared to WashSq, Clack TC or Bridgeport) is just a lousy market for retail, so retailers are best off looking at cutting their cost to a min.

If you're going to complain about how sterile those environs are at least they have shoppers buying things.

I don't think it's a pretext as much as an important factor. Those meters are telling shoppers and businesses alike, "We hate you because of your cars."

BTW, that "shared" parking lot is often full.

Didn't know they shared a lot with Kinkos. They don't share a lot of anything else with them!

Nice to know.

How about meters on the bike racks Portland has installed around town? /snark off

Meters for bike racks may come later.
Tolls for bike lanes and bridges may come later.
All the myriad of ways to pick pocket the bicyclists as well as the rest of us may come later.

. . . . after they support these officials to reelection.

Mike, don't even joke about that. As clinaman noted, you'll probably see this right after the next election. (By the way, what happened to Sam's plan to put in the rental bike kiosks all over downtown? Did someone talk sense to him, or did he just see some shiny thing in the corner and forget all about that asinine plan?)

Having worked for a property management company for nearly a decade, I know that the the truth behind the failure of any particular business is rarely made public. And in this case, you have a couple of classic factors at play.

First, the story was reported in the Oregonian.

Second, the story involves parking.

So, I would immediately suspect that there is some other reason for the problems facing this particular retailer.

By the way, for the record, I've learned from experience parking is more complicated than rocket science.

Dave Pietka is, or has been an owner of the building he's planning on moving The Mountain Shop into. It's the old "7-Up" Building (now with a Budweiser sign, I believe). The owners have always had a hard time getting tenants in there. While the parking meters in front of his old shop are certainly obnoxious, I really doubt that was the proximate cause for his moving. More likely, he's taking the chance to throw a jab at the City. Fair enough, but his lack of full disclosure is a little icky.

It is interesting to note that the owner expects a drop in sales by moving locations. Clearly he is moving solely to escape the rent. It is more likely that parking meters served as the final excuse for a failing businessman to save some rent money (a poor excuse) Sounds like he is externalizing the internalities.

I do not relish plugging the meter but a small fee and trip around the block will not deter me from visiting a business. Hard to believe that parking meters have a greater affect on business than anything else Sam-Rand has done. Is there any direct evidence of the affect of parking meters on business or are opinions on the subject being formed by speculation?

It's OK. It wasn't the type of store that really belongs in the gentrified central core, which should be catering to urban dwellers enjoying their downtown condos, selling bikes instead of skis, spandex instead of fleece, and people who are two sizes too small, rather than one size too big.

The City of Portland will spare no expense in finding a more suitable tenant that will appreciate being near the Streetcar and not rely on a business model that is a slave to big foreign oil...

I do not relish plugging the meter but a small fee and trip around the block will not deter me from visiting a business.

O.k., that's one person...

opinions on the subject being formed by speculation?

The opinions have clearly been formed. The shoppers and shopkeepers don't want the meters.

. .So, I would immediately suspect that there is some other reason for the problems facing this particular retailer. .

Land?
What are future plans for that spot?
Near light rail?
Two story, not acceptable in city plans?
A code issue?

Who knows?

Parking meters not a good sign. Some may claim, not that costly, and there have been comments on here before about that.
It does cost and in addition to the having to pay to park, it is also very inconvenient. In a store like Mountain Shop, when making a serious purchase such as a tent, hiking shoes, etc. time can run away and the threat of a ticket is hanging over one's head.

It may not be the coins that city wants, but the revenue from tickets. City must be desperate for money for pet projects to be pushing these meters all over.

Good Luck to the Mountain Shop in their new location.

And to all the businesses along there. The meters extend all the way east to Ninth, on Broadway and Weidler, and around the corners. There are several other marginal shops on those routes, and too much empty retail space in the Lloyd area as it is. I guess the plan is to knock it all down, let it rot for few years, and then hand it over to Edlen, Weston, Homer, and the boys for apartments. The meters will certainly speed that along.

I haven't been back to Lloyd Center since my car was broken into 7 years ago. It's never been a problem at Washington Square.

It may not be the coins that city wants, but the revenue from tickets.

The city wants both.

"The opinions have clearly been formed."

True but how were they formed? Flawed perception or thorough analysis?

"The shoppers and shopkeepers don't want the meters."

Nice appeal to popular opinion. Just because you claim that the majority of these groups do not want parking meters (overgeneralization) does not make the affects of the parking meters true.

Parking meters may vary well have negative impacts on business, but we should not form our opinions based solely on feelings about current leadership or water cooler chatter.

Any businesses that leave just make room for more bicycle shops. After all, we're going to need a lot more of them so the millions moving here can save the planet from Chinese consumerism.

Parking meters may vary well have negative impacts on business, but we should not form our opinions based solely on feelings about current leadership or water cooler chatter.

If they have that effect, what else matters?

Has any quantifiable affect been shown that the meters are positive, negative, or neutral? The point is we do not know what affect if any.

As I remember, expansion of parking meters as a revenue source was required to finance the streetcar on the eastside. The projected revenue was VERY generous to help make the construction financing pencil out.

Jack: Any better ideas about how to stop people from driving in, parking for free in front of the Mountain Shop or other neighboring business, taking free MAX downtown, and returning 8 hours later?

So gee, now they'll park in front of the houses two blocks north and west of there. And there will be another empty storefront on Broadway. What does that achieve? Except maybe the nearby houses will need a permit parking program, administered by the city.

And let's face it, this is not motivated by wanting to crack down on all-day parkers. This is all about streetcars, which means that it's all about apartment development.

Laura Graser: Any better ideas about how to stop people from driving in, parking for free in front of the Mountain Shop or other neighboring business, taking free MAX downtown, and returning 8 hours later?
JK: Glad you asked:
1. Get rid of fareless square.
2. Set MAX tickets at their actual cost.
End of two problems.

As to parking meters affecting business:
I can't think of any reason someone would prefer to pay for parking (a different issue than parking fees keeping spaces open).
I can think of a few, myself included who will NOT SHOP IN AREAS WITH METERS.

Now if there were usually no open spaces, then meters could free up some and improve business. But that is not liklely as Portland constantly comes up with new ways to drive customers and jobs out of town. (Maybe we will win a prize for the most livable city with no family wage jobs outside of government.)

Thanks
JK

I've never seen a skier heading to Mt Hood on a bike.

I never frequent businesses where I need to feed either a parking meter or parking garage. The only time I pay for either is when the wife forces me into those areas for something she wants.

So, if we conduct a survey in which we ask, "Would you rather pay for parking or not?" we get an unsurprising answer. I wonder if that's the right question.

I think the force feeding of streetcars and the placement of parking meters is one factor in the difficulties businesses face in this city. My wife has to deal with it every day in fact as somebody who works in that area.

That said, I've observed business after business fail in that building if it is in fact the building mentioned above.

The parking for that building is pretty lousy as well. I hope it works out for him, because I don't see that as a step up in convenience.

Last week I made a rare trip downtown to buy a belt at a western wear store.

Surprisingly the meter reader told me I was in a no parking zone and it would cost me 60 bucks if I remained. I thanked him and parked across the street, a one way. He then told me it was another fine if I left my sticker on the street side of the car.

Good of him to have given me the warnings. The prospect of a fine for having my parking sticker on the street side? Well, I'll go back to Jantzen Beach etc. The bike lanes and public transport and landmine of unsuspected fines and the faded glory of downtown - no thanks.

What? They want to control where you park and where you put the parking sticker? The effrontery.

I think the biggest downfall of this area is that Broadway is a giant, one-way fast moving arterial street. I think two-waying it would be a big boon to the retailers along this corridor.

I know the car only crowd will balk at that statement, but the best retail usually occurs on two-way streets with moderate speed traffic; not traffic that is zoooming by in one direction.

I get a good chuckle at people giving advice about how much better Bridgeport or Washington Square is.

I have literally waited in line for parking for 10-15 minutes and more during the holidays at these establishments AND have had to walk further to the store location from my parking location than I would parking around the block in some of Portland's retail neighborhoods.

I have also wasted my share of time in trying to get OUT of Washington Square's moon-sized parking lot and onto Scholls.

Just because the parking is physically attached to the establishment does not mean it is more convenient.

What? You don't think the Broadway-Weidler "couplet" is a smashing success?

What? They want to control where you park and where you put the parking sticker? The effrontery.

No, they already control those things.

Their wants are more far-reaching.

ws : think the biggest downfall of this area is that Broadway is a giant, one-way fast moving arterial street. I think two-waying it would be a big boon to the retailers along this corridor.
JK: That was NOT the experience when Portland switched from two way to one way streets: one-way streets had 10-20% lower accident rates than when previously two-way. Most significantly, pedestrian accidents plummeted by 30-60%...Nothing the City of Portland has done to reduce pedestrian accidents in the past 70 years has been as effective as implementing one-way streets. ... In 1986 Denver converted seven streets on three one-way couplets. Average intersection accident rates increased 37.6% while average mid-block accident rates increased 80.5%. The City report noted that accident rates were up on all three couplets "as is expected with two-way operation" (Pages 23 and 29, Source 7). Lubbock, Texas in 1995 converted two streets back to two-way. Overall accident rates increased there 41.6% (Source 8) http://www.portlandfacts.com/onewaystreets.htm

Do you have any data, or are you just guessing again? How do you feel about getting more pedestrians killed?

ws : I know the car only crowd will balk at that statement, but the best retail usually occurs on two-way streets with moderate speed traffic; not traffic that is zoooming by in one direction.
JK: You mean like Winco on 122nd, Costco on 165th (?), Walmart on 82nd and Fry’s. But they have large parking lots so the street is irrelevant.

ws : I have also wasted my share of time in trying to get OUT of Washington Square's moon-sized parking lot and onto Scholls.
JK: Try that volume of retail traffic on Broadway and get back to us about how much timne you would waste.

ws : Just because the parking is physically attached to the establishment does not mean it is more convenient.
JK: Tell that to the big boys: Costco, Walmart etc.

Thanks
JK

I used to go the LLoyd Center ... and usually parked happily on the street.

I did not go there for business purposes, or for a specific item usually, but just to take a walk and get a bite to eat, entertainthe kids a bit and such.

If I had had to pay parking for a "stroll in the mall" I would have NOT been stopping there very often, or would have paid parking only where i had a specific agenda.

Net result, a few thousand dollars in random impulse buys ... I left there, just because it was free parking and convenient, would have gone elsewhere.

Today if i have a specific item agenda, I shop it on ebay or amazon or online somewhere to get the best price ... malls and shopping centers are places we go for a bit of amusement and distraction ... food court or ice skating or such ...and so any barrier to entry in costs or logistics discourage folks from bothering.

JK:

Your studies and statistics are from a dated time. Get some up-to-date material -- any reduction in pedestrian/auto accidents from one-way streets may not be due to the direction flow of the road and be something else. Many safety measures have been implemented in cars since then.

Seriously, you did not have one study done in the 2000s...and that was 10 years ago. Your other sources are from the 50's and 70's.