I know it's not a popular sentiment on this blog, but I support building this bridge.

Yes, the state and city don't have the money. But the state and city also have over 10% unemployment. And I imagine this bridge is going to create a lot of desperately needed construction jobs over the next few years. To me, lowering unemployment is a higher priority than reducing budget shortfalls.

I hope over the next couple of years, the city and state do even more infrastructure development.

Justin. While bolstering employment is a nice thought, the cost per job created by the MLR project will be insanely high compared to other alternatives our bureaucrats have.

For example, Jack linked to a Daily Journal of Commerce article yesterday that illustrated that Gresham waived $68,000 in SDC fees, and as a result brought in new businesses and created 154 new (likely permanent jobs). Do the math, that's roughly $442 per job created. That's brilliant planning.

Some folks like to embolden the Portland bureaucrats by saying it's okay to waste money on STUPID projects like MLR because they create jobs. Horsepuckey.

In order for MLR to be as efficient at job creation as Gresham's fee-slicing strategy, it would have to create 3.6 MILLION permanent jobs (at a cost of $442 per job). See, MLR isn't a very efficient job creator, is it?

If Portland cared about job creation, they'd do what Gresham did. It works, but it's probably waaaay to simple for the average Portland bureaucrat to understand. So, let's build trains at the cost of $640,000 per temporary job created (assuming 2,500 temporary jobs).

Dumb, just dumb.

So I just looked at the detour map of the Esplanade since I regularly run from Oaks Park to OMSI and back.....

They're closing off the section from the Hawthorne bridge to the Opera House to bikes but allowing pedestrians? I would LOVE to see how that's going to work. Merely trying to navigate that section as a pedestrian without getting run over by a bicycle is usually an accomplishment. Now there will be numerous other obstacles + bikers that you just KNOW aren't going to take the assigned detour route. Afterall, bikes are considered "pedestrians" in Portland now aren't they? For a point of comparison- cyclists never walk their bikes over the Sellwood bridge like they're supposed to which makes crossing that bridge as a pedestrian always fun. How is this ever going to work?

Not looking forward to being run over by some obnoxious tall bike or fixie on the Esplanade this spring.

Justin,

So any foolish project is a jobs thing?

Well bring on the Convention Center Hotel!

Perhaps you're a victim of the propaganda and that's why you don't know that
$100s of millions for this project will be taken from existing payrolls?

$400 million form lottery profits alone.

Another $200 million is coming form Metro regional funds that would otherwise fund worthy infrastructure projects such as the Sellwood bridge.

There is nothing but insanity pushing this forward.

It is the worst project in Oregon history and will make the Green Line that Metro says was built in the wrong place look like a brilliant success.
It will make WES who Rex Burkholder said,

"In the real world Rex Burkholder says (with regard to the WES fiasco), "Probably that project didn't get the scrutiny it deserved 10 years ago." He also said, "TriMet has no incentive to ever admit they made a mistake."

look like chump change.

President Obama says we can borrow our way to prosperity, provide healthcare to everyone, and stimulate growth with government spending.

Ask Greece how that works out.

I hope the U.S House bludgeons Federal Transit Administration funding. I also hope it bludgeons renewable energy spending. Obama continues blabbing about these as investments but these don't move the economy much at all. You think China isn't buying up oil resources big time. In a globally competitive world, I'd rather be steeler tough than New England Patriot fineese. It's not rocket science. Just go get more oil and let our cars, and free enterprise companies like Apple push our economy. Bama's government is only getting in the way while hemmorrhaging red ink.

I don't think overspending on infrastructure is the best way to create jobs, but currently it's the only plan out there. No one else seems to have any ideas for how to create jobs.

And if Republicans really cared the deficit, they would have said something during the eight years that W. doubled the deficit from 5 trillion to 10 trillion. But they didn't say a word. Why? Because they don't really care.

Plenty of Republicans were screaming about Bush spending. Over and over again yet it always come back to no one said a word.

As for infrastructure there is a whole list of deferred infrastructure in need of upgrading.
Identical to the Sellwood bridge.

This MLR is taking the money form them .

Throwing away $2 Billion on MLR is the worst kind of spending posible.

Just because you can't even imagine what else to do no justification fot it.

And right now as TriMet moves forward they are facing another round of cuts in the coming FY budget because of soaring benefits.

Last year they saw a $27 million increase in cost of benefits resuling in $27 million in cuts to service.

That among many other reason's makes this project insane. It's not insane just because people don't like it.

From every angle it's madness.

We have only one hope to kill MLR: Rep. Paul Ryan (Rep) Chairman of the House Committee on the Budget. He will be in control of the drafting the Continuing Resolution which will reduce the discretionary spending for FY 2011 which ends on 9/30/2011. He has been directed to reduce spending to 2008 levels, or below. The final vote in the House is scheduled for the week of 2/14.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/house-orders-budget-trimmed/

Justin: No one else seems to have any ideas for how to create jobs.
JK: Thre are lots of good ideas out there, but they don't fit Oregon's grand plan.

You want instant job creation, try this:
* Get rid of LCDC.
* Get rid of UGB.
* Fire 99% of the government planners.
* Levey a $1000/day fine against any agency that does not issue a final permit after 30 days.
* Stop all government spending on any mass transit mode that requires more than a 50% subsidy (including construction)
* Shut down department of energy (it is filled with crackpot evangelists that go around scaring little children & politicians about peak oil and AGW)

Thanks
JK

Isn't there already a line going the same direction to Oregon City further down the road? Why build two parallel lines?

Yes, the state and city don't have the money. But the state and city also have over 10% unemployment.

I just want to make sure I understand your point, because it's a common one amongst proponents: you're saying build the bridge with tax money that doesn't exist so we can redistribute that imaginary money amongst the taxpayers?

Hell: I say we build several, then. Double-decker, with triple bicycle lanes and double light rail, both directions.

And I imagine this bridge is going to create a lot of desperately needed construction jobs over the next few years.

Then what happens when Milwaukie MAX is completed and all those construction workers get laid off?

Time to build another MAX line to keep unemployment low!

Just like, the Green line construction just finished and all those construction workers got laid off...just like they were laid off when the Yellow Line was finished, which was right after the Red Line, which was right after the Westside Line...

Why is it my job to provide job security to a group of workers who intentionally chose a line of work that is inconsistent? Light rail is supposed to be about transportation, NOT about jobs and development...

PD and Ben,
Thanks for a common sense approach to understand the idiocy of our public servants' rationale. Dollars and cents clearly outlined for people like me to understand.

Bob Clark, actually China is heavily investing in wind and solar.

pg: Bob Clark, actually China is heavily investing in wind and solar.
JK: Must not be doing much good - they are reportedly building one coal plant per month.

However we do know they are building a lot of wind ands solar to sell to the green suckers in the West. Perhaps that is what you meant.

Thanks
JK

Justin:I don't think overspending on infrastructure is the best way to create jobs, but currently it's the only plan out there. No one else seems to have any ideas for how to create jobs.

There are infrastructure jobs that are needed, object to overspending on new and in this case a pet project at the expense of the needed infrastructure. As many others have mentioned at the expense of all else, schools, less services. There will be loss of jobs in those areas then.

The Portland Water Bureau for example has years of deferred maintenance and work. They also are instead spending on new unneeded projects and we will have double digit water rates increasing every year. This all falls on those that are fortunate enough to have a job yet, and most are working for less these days to pay for all of this. We are in debt from one end of the country to the other with municipalities going bankrupt, so we need to be prudent and spend any money we have wisely, not waste on projects not needed just because those who are insiders are pushing for them now.

As others have stated here, jobs would be available for the Sellwood bridge.

In my view, there is plenty of work to be done. Work to be done by people to benefit the public, not just projects to benefit a few. America is hurting, did you see those photos of Detroit? Some forests are devastated, take a drive out to the coast. I am not an expert on this, but looks like that ground needs work and then replanted. Our city is dirty, power-wash those filthy places, fix and spruce up the place. I am sure there are others who can add to the list of work to be done. But in this city and most likely others pet projects trump. Wall Street reigns and Congress is at their feet. Sad day for our America when the rest are having to pay and pay in so many insidious ways.

JK: However we do know they are building a lot of wind ands solar to sell to the green suckers in the West. Perhaps that is what you meant.

China is installing wind-power generating capacity at a faster rate than any country on Earth:

China Daily, 1/17/11
China became the country with the world's largest installed wind power capacity at the end of 2010, Guangzhou Daily reported Monday, citing information from the China Association of Resource Comprehensive Utilization.
The country's total installed wind power capacity exceeded 41.8 million kilowatts in 2010 with about 16 million kilowatts of new turbines installed last year, the report said.
The previous nation with the highest installed capacity was the United States, it said.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2011-01/17/content_11868861.htm

For $2 billion let's buy everyone in the state a new hybrid vehicle.
It would be cheaper!

I went to the airport this morning.

At 4:50 I saw a south bound Green line train empty. On airport way I saw another empty train heading out of the airport.

On the way back home I saw another empty Green Line train approaching the Clackamas Town Center where 3 people were waiting.

Green WES.

And the leveraging lies advance more MAX and Streetcars.

Building a new bridge over the Willamette River (the first new bridge built since the Freemont Bridge, in 1973) that EXCLUDES the primary mode of commuter and freight traffic is pure idiocy.

We have 250,000 more residents than we did in 1973, and no new bridge capacity.

Amazing.

Maybe 10 years ago I read in an obscure press release that the ultimate plan calls for the banning of all personal movement except by bicycle, foot, or government provided mass transit and this would be accomplished by first installing rail transit everywhere and then by blocking off neighborhoods so that only bicycles and rail can pass.

At the time I thought this was preposterous and a Big Brother affront to freedom and I said to myself this will never happen.

???

Couple that idiocy with the Sellwood Bridge design that has two 12 foot sidewalks.
As if one 6 foot sidewalk would not be enough when it also included two 6.5 foot bike paths.

What is all of the sidewalk capacity for?
Looks?

There's a total breakdown of common sense.

It doesn't make sense to most people in Portland because they're building something for someone and that someone isn't us.

And no, I'm not a conspiracy nut. I maintain if you step back far enough and look at all of the craziness put together it starts to look not so crazy and more like a plan, especially when correlated with nutty sounding press releases and nonsensical propoganda and a lock-step agenda.

"I imagine this bridge is going to create a lot of desperately needed construction jobs over the next few years."

That is a bogus argument. Intel and Nike are growing. Why don't we build each (or maybe a BioTech company) a $50M factory and then they can fill them with about 1000 people each. It'd be a longer term stream of income and more secure. Plus think of all those income and property taxpayers.

The whole concept of we are going to help the economy by building empty buildings or projects that need tax subsidies forever, helps nobody besides Gerding-Edlen and Walsh.

Don't they have enough money now?

Plenty of Republicans were screaming about Bush spending. Over and over again

One link. Just one link that proves that this.

Why is it my job to provide job security to a group of workers who intentionally chose a line of work that is inconsistent?

Because we have over 10% unemployment, and this is a huge huge problem.

In my view, there is plenty of work to be done. Work to be done by people to benefit the public, not just projects to benefit a few. America is hurting, did you see those photos of Detroit? Some forests are devastated, take a drive out to the coast. I am not an expert on this, but looks like that ground needs work and then replanted. Our city is dirty, power-wash those filthy places, fix and spruce up the place. I am sure there are others who can add to the list of work to be done.

There should absolutely be a national focus on infrastructure improvement at this time. That this isn't being done is Obama's biggest failing.

I just want to make sure I understand your point, because it's a common one amongst proponents: you're saying build the bridge with tax money that doesn't exist so we can redistribute that imaginary money amongst the taxpayers?

Deficit spending and wealth redistribution are not novel concepts. So, yes. Build stuff with borrowed money. It will have the added benefit of giving some people a job.

If Portland cared about job creation, they'd do what Gresham did. It works, but it's probably waaaay to simple for the average Portland bureaucrat to understand.

Gresham's unemployment rate is not appreciably lower than Portland's. In fact, I think it's a little higher.

I support this bridge because it means that many of the individuals riding their bicycles over the sellwood bridge in the auto lanes will cross the river using this route instead. Selfish, I know, but there it is.

Deficit spending and wealth redistribution are not novel concepts. So, yes. Build stuff with borrowed money. It will have the added benefit of giving some people a job.

Which is like looking at the input end of a new sewer pipe and saying "I don't see any pollution!"

You also seem unfamiliar with the difference between "deficit" spending and the scenario being described in Jack's blog post. If nothing else, take note of where Portland *already is* in terms of debt load, and why.

Justin,
If Gresham's unemployment is a little higher might it be because too much density has been pushed there?

Wanna start a real pi**ing match, suggest a toll on the Bike/pedestrian bridge.

You also seem unfamiliar with the difference between "deficit" spending and the scenario being described in Jack's blog post. If nothing else, take note of where Portland *already is* in terms of debt load, and why.

True. Deficit spending only applies to the Federal government. Portland is just borrowing the money. So you're correct, it's not a perfect analogy.

Portland's debt burden, while significant, is not as big of a problem as it's unemployment rate. I would like to see the debt burden increase, in order to decrease the unemployment rate. But you know, just my opinion.

Mr. Grumpy,
Lock-step agenda it is. Why else in the name of sanity would this project move forward?

“Conspiracy” seems plausible when one pays attention, of course, that same lock-step approach has done its job well in propagandizing that those who can see the patterns and speak truth are then labeled as conspiracy nuts.

Why is seeing and speaking of conspiracy such a negative? How about plans without integrity?

I would like to see the debt burden increase, in order to decrease the unemployment rate. But you know, just my opinion.

I see what you're saying, but it's a downward spiral, and a trap that most municipalities fall into. It's so bad that it's now a national crisis for nearly every municipality of any meaningful size.

So, Portland's at a place that it helped to put itself in: desperation, fueled by an almost complete lack of vision and leadership--and cognitively dissonant goals like "be an international city" and "build a truly local economy". That one example should give Portlanders a clue of just how unable to lead City Council is.

We all could have supported this project
*IF* (big if)
Trimet was not in a financial mess,
not hacking away at current service,
and actually a necessary extension of needed transit services.

Building this monstrosity at this time is a slap in face of all the
tax payers, its riders, and its employees, who have to take it in the shorts
to pay for running this nonsense.

Trimet managment behaves as an out of control spoiled child that just has an addiction
problem, constantly enabled by the other government/business leaders who have no shame
in using tax payers money to enrich the very people that do not need enrichment.

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Steve: . . .Don't they have enough money now?

No. Never.

Building the bridge? Yes

TriMet building the bridge? No. They're broke

TriMet building the MAX line? HELL NO

And if Republicans really cared the deficit, they would have said something during the eight years that W. doubled the deficit from 5 trillion to 10 trillion. But they didn't say a word.

Wrong. Republicans on every level, from grassroots on up to national level, complained long and loud Dubya's spending, his lax approach to illegal aliens, and a host of other issues. That you weren't paying attention doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Justin, do you work for the City of Portlad, TriMet, or Metro? Really, which one?