"Makes me nervous

The sooner this gets off the front pages around the country, the better:"
===

I just read the complete complaint...

(see here: http://www.justice.gov/usao/or/Indictments/11262010_Complaint.pdf )

I guess I would not want it off the front pages of major newspapers around the country anytime soon.

The more visibility, the better. I kinda would want to be ignorant, but it really is not bliss. Not regarding this Global War. We are not safe in NYC or DC, nor in Stump-town.

This "global war" was an angry teenager in Corvallis sending out e-mails and getting nowhere until the FBI hooked him up with his fantasy. For all intents and purposes, they busted him five months ago, long before he got anywhere near delivering the FBI's bomb to Pioneer Courthouse Square. But don't let that stop you all from being afraid, very afraid. Drive east 300 miles and I bet you could find white folks that harbor the same fantasies.

Shouldn't that read "bomb plot created, then foiled using teen near Portland, Ore.?"

"FBI helps nurture, coach, and develop a jihadist and his plan, then 'thwarts' its own co-creation."

Or, what George said.

"Drive east 300 miles and I bet you could find white folks that harbor the same fantasies."

You can just stay in town here and deal with a mayor that seems to think outreach programs will just make this all go away - If your choice is fantasy.

I guess we need a "real" threat before you think we should do something.

Do wehave to turn into a martial state? No, but I think if our 24/7 job is chiseling money to build trolleys or over-priced real estate all over town instead of dealing with real problems, then I think this is symptomatic of bigger issues

At least we agree this wasn't a "real" threat. Glad the little psychopath is in jail, because he certainly had the will. But we should not lose sight of the fact that he displayed neither the ability to do this on his own or the ability to find help.

What Islamists find objectionable about Portland is the residents are mostly Progressive and Accepting.

What's an "Islamist"? is that like a "Catholicist"?

"we should not lose sight of the fact that he displayed neither the ability to do this on his own or the ability to find help."

So what do you want to do about those with the ability who are not a hormone-driven teenager and ave help?

I understand this was a screwed-up kid, but we can't even keep neighborhoods safe from gangs which are probably the same skill level.

Boom!

What happened?

P: I think you are right in assuming he had no ability to get this done without help, but wrong in assuming he did not have the ability to find help. Lucky for many he found the FBI first, rather than the help he was looking for.

I'm not afraid at all, but I am not naive. Just as there are rapists and robbers, there are muslim extremists and other radicals who want to hurt us. They exist here is Portland in numbers just as they do in other areas of the country. So, moving 300 miles away won't really help.

If there is something here not to lose sight of it is the fact that our feebs should get big creds for recognizing this guy as being more dangerous than most like him they run into. They let it go far enough to build a strong case for terrorism, rather than a weak case for conspiracy, so we don't see him out to hurt others anytime soon.

"I'm not afraid at all, but I am not naive."

What Gibby said...

"So, moving 300 miles away won't really help."

That's right... Global... 300 miles from anywhere is still where crowds gather. Even in sleepy little Stump-town. Or sleepier and littler Corvallis. Or even someplace called Bly, where ever that is.

And more awareness is better, especially when the next one gets help before the feds get wind of the plan.

If laws and police work do not work, then the next step is to...create illegal scenarios and encourage people to follow them and break the law?

Huh?

Why aren't we spending equal amounts of sweat and effort *discouraging* people from pursuing these acts instead of *encouraging* them? Can you imagine if you practiced such a philosophy with your own family, your wives and husbands and children?

"Why aren't we spending equal amounts of sweat and effort *discouraging* people from pursuing these acts instead of *encouraging* them?"

You know, flaunting your ignorance of the broad range of efforts against international terrorism on a blog is fine, but I hope you're not in any kind of decision-making position.

You know, flaunting your ignorance of the broad range of efforts against international terrorism on a blog is fine, but I hope you're not in any kind of decision-making position.

That's the point, John; I'm saying that we're *all* in a decision-making position. You're just more readily willing to give over much of that decision-making authority without questioning it than I am.

I guess being 300 miles away excuses me from any terrorist concerns. Being over 3000 miles from 9/11 totally releases me from even knowing about it. Great deduction.

A terrorist's ability to "find help" is not a factor of time. In studying the history of terrorist attacks they are overwhelmingly a product of much time, many resources examined, some discarded, and sometimes help coming from very unsuspected sources.

Mohamub with his strong desire to cause mayhem would have likely succeeded in some fashion to do so, even without FBI intervention.

Sammy has so many outreach committees, commissions and task forces that soon there won't be enough commissioners, citizens and city staff to fill the potholes.

Sorry, no PC entrapment tears from me for a guy who apparently professed no ambiguity about potentially murdering hundreds of innocent families. The guy sounds like a garden variety sociopath disguised as a religious zealot. We can speculate about him being young and led astray, and that may be true, but it doesn't excuse or allow us to ignore the murderous intent. The FBI might have nurtured and aggrandized his jihadist fantasies, but that can be figured out in the judicial process, and if there's a conviction, during sentencing.

Regardless whether this guy was competent enough to pull this off, we should not be surprised that terrorist would try something here. Our brilliant PC city officials have opted out of the FBI's terrorism task force.

Wouldn't it make sense for terrorist to strike where local law enforcement has declined to help with the task force?

Yes, yes. Of course, the FBI set this up for their own benefit.

Last night there were three shooting incidents in my part of Portland. The PPB was behind those.

Why do we keep falling for these government tricks? We are a sick culture that is really doing this to itself.

The mayor and the president are leading us to a new light, a brighter way.

Yes, yes. This human caused near disaster was characteristic of agency over reach and cultural hubris.

I wonder if Sam knew about the plot all along. I imagine he would be fussing and fuming behind closed doors once he realized he was powerless do anything about how the Feds might use this in the media.

It's great to see the conservative spin cycle going quickly into centrifuge mode. Of course Portland was the target because, years ago, Tom Potter resisted the concept of putting an FBI agent in charge of the Portland police and taking our civilian management out of the loop. Especially clever was the kid getting his parents to move here from Mogadishu in the nineties when he was -- what? -- maybe eight years old? And brilliant of his terrorist controllers, who must have made this choice of venue, to bring in the undercover FBI to help.

Hey it's Thanksgiving weekend in Portland....something's gotta happen in the new Detroit.

"FBI helps nurture, coach, and develop a jihadist and his plan, then 'thwarts' its own co-creation."

Or, what George said."

This morning's O article, indicates that friends thought he could easily have been talked out of the deed-or into it, it seems.

Does this kind of thing give us any real information about how we can guage terrorist threats?
I am not a frequent flyer, but some of my most recent plane trips have been to, or included stops in, Chicago where Orange alerts were broadcast throughout the terminal. I overheard passenger conversations about "fear tactics".
Is the purpose to make us callous? The FBI is hard for me to understand. I remember the Old Jimmy Stewart movie "G-Men" and how, in the 1940s the focus of the agency moved away from the Mob to internal threats. Maybe it needs to step back and do some objective analysis.

Truly frightening. Glad the FBI found him first, as the tragedy in OKC showed us, these loons don't need much advanced technical know how or capital to cause mayhem. Heck, even the shoe bomber would have brought down a plane if he'd managed to light the fuse. We live in dangerous times, thankfully this lunatic was found out sooner than later.

"Tom Potter resisted the concept of putting an FBI agent in charge of the Portland police and taking our civilian management out of the loop."

The big reason Potter didn't go along with JTTF was because he couldn't get a security clearance, maybe due to Potter's "extra-curricular" activities. So just saying it'd take local mgmt out of is not entirely accurate.

Of course, with Sam's baggage, he'd probably be one of the least likely to get clearance either.

I mean do you really think having the FBI vs. Sam working with police is much of a choice?

wow! the Mighty Wurlitzer is really cranked
up now...as if it's a coordinated effort to
get the be-Jesus scared out of the Citizen
Rubes so they'll be united in One Voice as
they beg the Uber Rightwing Nutties to come
to the rescue and save us..yet again..from
a vaguely defined "enemy out there" who is
hellbent on being "evildoers" and doing bad
things to US(a)...(ho hum, yawn, wink wink)

Of course, with Sam's baggage, he'd probably be one of the least likely to get clearance either. I mean do you really think having the FBI vs. Sam working with police is much of a choice?

Are you serious? Security clearance Is probably the most arbitrary and disconnected process in our federal government. But the FBI is never accountable to a local government in the JTTF, irrespective of security clearances. I don't like our disgraceful mayor and I don't consider him a capable administrator of our Police Department. But I'm dumbfounded at the number of supposedly conservative or libertarian types who would turn our local law enforcement over to the federal government. That's idiotic.

"I'm dumbfounded at the number of supposedly conservative or libertarian types who would turn our local law enforcement over to the federal government. That's idiotic."

OK, I'll go slowly. IF we had someone local who ran the police that could get a security clearance, then we'd still have Portland overseeing them. I think Potter's issue keeping him from getting clearance was his penchant for the ladies(which he didn't bother to conceal much) which could put him in a difficult spot.

If you tell me you're more comfortable with a Randy or Sam just because they are local instead of the FBI, I'd have to disagree.

Allan L. writes "...I'm dumbfounded at the number of supposedly conservative or libertarian types who would turn our local law enforcement over to the federal government. That's idiotic."

If you really believe that Libertarians want to turn local law enforcement over to the feds you might want to try brushing up on the philosophy.

BL could you maybe just comment on what I wrote, if you're so inclined, without revising it first?

I'm not sure what some idiot setting the mosque in Corvallis on fire accomplishes.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_c124f59a-fb25-11df-8f83-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

I wish there was this much passion about the Woodburn bank bombing and those terrorists who killed members of law enforcement. Remember them?

oh my mistake, they must be the good treasonous terrorists. . .

"I'm not sure what some idiot setting the mosque in Corvallis on fire accomplishes"

Dividing the community, causing hate, fear, anger, and outrage. The idiot responsible likely tried to accomplish all this and more when he/she lit the match. Just as evil as the terrorist.

Allan I thought I quoted you correctly. Where did I go wrong?

Allan L, I agree with Bluecollar, the remark he made is apropos to your comment.

How do you determine who is what-Libertarian or Conservative? Can you market this ability?

Allan L - more importantly, where do you see the "conservatives and libertarians" pushing for more federal law enforcement? I'm not sure why a person's political slant really matters if all they are asking is for SOME law enforcement that will prevent terrorists, local or foreign?

Or doesn't that sit well with your "liberal" point of view?

Its not like the Feds come in and take over the entire PPB. The way I understand it, the city would have a handful of officers assigned to the JTTF to assist the Feds with investigations. They dont "turn our local law enforcement over to the federal government."

Bluecollar, here's what I said (though I'm not sure anyone really wants to read it again): " . . . a number of supposedly conservative or libertarian types . . . " I thought I was pointing out that enhanced reliance on federal government agencies was not entirely compatible with a libertarian or even viewpoint, so I thought I was identifying an inconsistency on the part of some advocates of the JTTF.

Nice cover up, Allan L.. Look at your sentence again, you included "conservative" with "libertarian". You were being encompassing. You don't give an explanation on your thinking of including "conservative".

And both labels don't dismiss the need for government.

"The guy sounds like ..." what the FBI made him sound like. Or, what?, you have another source of info? you know the guy personally?

"... the FBI found him first, as the tragedy in OKC showed ..."
You mean when the FBI immediately put out an APB BOLO (all points bulletin, be on look out) for a 'stocky businessman wearing a turban with a Mediterranean complexion who flew out of OKC airport later that day' and they chased some red herring thru Chicago to London, brought him back, and said, 'oops, nevermind' (after some sleepy OK sheriff had stopped a jalopy car with no license plate ... or was it a broken taillight? ... and picked up T.McVeigh unwittingly?) BTW, McVeigh turned out to be one of those white Christian militia acolytes (like listeners to Limbaugh and LIARS) who the FBI never can seem to 'find' camped and fear-crazed in OK, KS, TX, and about 400 miles ENE of PDX in Idaho.

"... wish there was this much passion about the Woodburn bank bombing and those terrorists who killed members of law enforcement. Remember them?"
Actually there is some 'passionate remembering.' Turns out that the local hatetalk radio nutjob (LIARS) might have provoked bomber Turnidge, going by statements FBI agent Chamberlin testified Turnidge said (as basis for his anti-government hate and action) which statements were verbatim quotes from LIARS -- and only LIARS -- broadcasts ... saturating the airwaves over Woodburn and vicinity exactly in the weeks (Oct - Nov about Obama's pending election) leading upt to the Dec.2008 bombing. Seems there is some court-administered investigation of those broadcasts to determine if they were like this: about Byron Williams.

Another informed observer about the PDX put-up:
The FBI successfully thwarts its own Terrorist plot, By Glenn Greenwald, Salon.com, Sunday, Nov 28, 2010

The FBI is obviously quite pleased with itself over its arrest of a 19-year-old Somali-American, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, who -- with months of encouragement, support and money from the FBI's own undercover agents -- allegedly attempted to detonate a bomb at a crowded Christmas event in Portland, Oregon. Media accounts are almost uniformly trumpeting this event exactly as the FBI describes it. Loyalists of both parties are doing the same, with Democratic Party commentators proclaiming that this proves how great and effective Democrats are at stopping The Evil Terrorists, while right-wing polemicists point to this arrest as yet more proof that those menacing Muslims sure are violent and dangerous.

What's missing from all of these celebrations is an iota of questioning or skepticism. All of the information about this episode -- all of it -- comes exclusively from an FBI affidavit filed in connection with a Criminal Complaint against Mohamud. As shocking and upsetting as this may be to some, FBI claims are sometimes one-sided, unreliable and even untrue, especially when such claims -- as here -- are uncorroborated and unexamined. ... And even the "facts" that are included are merely assertions at this point and thus may not be facts at all.
[...]

UPDATE: A very similar thing happened last month when the FBI announced that it had arrested someone who was planning to bomb the DC Metro system when, in reality, "the only plotting he did was in response to instructions from federal agents he thought were accomplices." That concocted FBI plot then led to the Metro Police announcing a new policy of random searches of passengers' bags.

Meanwhile, in Oregon, the mosque sometimes attended by Mohamud was victimized today by arson. So the FBI did not stop any actual Terrorist plots, but they may have helped inspire one.

What scares me are the many voices here who believe and bully! bully! this sort of fairy tale poppycockup and then publicly admit they believe it!

Really. Get a clue. About the FBI, not from it.

"What scares me are the many voices here who believe and bully! bully! this sort of fairy tale poppycockup and then publicly admit they believe it!"

And you believe in Randy and Sam to prevent something like this?

Wasn't there a movie a couple of years ago where the robo cops chased you down for the
crimes you would committ in the future?
And why is there not increased security for such potential targets as the mosques or even
people whom could be at risk by the other nut cases out there?

Portland Native...traveling the USA, are you keeping count of negative comments about Portland and Oregon as you travel? What's the consensus, is it beyond weird?

We can all look to the UN for "inspiration." (EXCLUSIVE: U.N. Elects Iran to Commission on Women's Rights)

Or we can look to these brave Iranians for inspiration.

The institutional champions of individual liberty are rotting from the inside out as the key positions, at home and abroad, get filled by folks loyal to tyrants and various flavors of megalomaniacs.

Would it be "hate" to advocate the all Islamic-affiliated organizations be denied recognition as incorporated entities within Oregon? The IRS rules regarding designation of a "charity" for tax purposes looks pretty clear to me. (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicj85.pdf) (I assume these particular rules here are stale, but are a good starting point for encapsulating the issues involved.)

This would be in line with my desire to be able to ignore them.

Tenskwatawa! Are you in contact with rw? She is sorely needed at our new blog, named after her suggestion years back, http://bluethumb.info . For bojackers, you might find the BlueOregon search engine useful. Everything, all those things they never thought they would have to own up to easily searched!