I am sure they will sway lots of opinions four days before election day.

On a related note, since pot is virtually legal in Oregon anyway, why would one want to get the state involved in regulating it? Pot shops will only drive up the price.

Just goes to show us how much we need mandatory drug testing for cops and elected politicians.

Potheads.

So what do we call supporters of alcohol?

There are a million names for that group. Let's go with "boozehounds."

If they would come up with a decent anti-panhandling ordinance (and enforce it), I would prefer homeless stoners over homeless tweakers and hypes.

But I'm afraid we would simply draw more homeless of all stripes when they realize that Portland, Oregon is the Amsterdam of the West.

In Medford where I live we were robbed twice this year and rural ranch property my husband's family owns was overrun by criminals and growing paraphernalia, discovered by a swarm of sheriff cars and DEA agents. That was a whole 'nother kind of wake-up call, believe me.

When I last lived in Portland 2000-2004 I was robbed, our house was burgled and a car was stolen and totalled.

All of these were drug crimes.

Criminalizing drugs creates a lot of other crime, I am increasingly convinced. I am not rich or reckless. I can't keep myself safe and neither can the law enforcement community. I wake up this morning to another report of a rash of home burglaries very near where I live, in the daytime.

What used to be an intellectual exercise has gotten personal. I was asking myself last night, am I getting more scared because I'm getting older or because things are getting scarier?

Importing Mexican drug cartels (as victimized by the ranch property) is crazy.

I voted to legalize medical marijuana to try to kick the door open. Would that I could legalize it all yesterday.

So what do we call supporters of alcohol?

In Oregon, I would say "taxpayers."

Sally,

What makes you believe that drug crimes would be reduced if we increased the availability of marijuana? Oxycontin, codeine, vicodin, percoset all have legal medical users and they are all widely abused, available on the black market, and often purchased with the proceeds of burglaries.

Clearly, legalizing weed would have little impact on the producer/distributor of all the drugs that remain illegal. If they operate like a traditional corporation, losing market share in weed would likely result in price cuts, thereby increasing consumption. It may provide an impetus for those producer/distributors to increase their market share and/or prices on cocaine, heroine, and meth in order to make up for "lost" weed profits.

Mister Tee, are you arguing that drug crimes are less by keeping drugs illegal? That drug use would increase if any were illegal? That use of "worse" drugs would increase if "lesser" drugs were legal?

Personally, I've long thought that the first big drug war (against marijuana) increased use of various substitutes including ones you mention.

A long while ago now I read a piece in the Wall Street Journal that asserted that the level of drug use across populations and countries was fairly predictable and static, most things considered. That position has won no days, or even hearings.

I guess I think it's crazy and counterproductive to keep drugs illegal (except the three I like: alcohol, tobacco & caffeine) for a lot of reasons. But now it's gotten personal too many times.

What are you arguing for?

Just saw this ....

"But I'm afraid we would simply draw more homeless of all stripes when they realize that Portland, Oregon is the Amsterdam of the West."

You've got a point.

M. Tee , those other things you note are still restricted to prescription , so not really available , alcohol and coffee are better examples , you don't see guys on the street corner selling vodka and lattes.
If we full on legalize weed it will eliminate criminals as we can all grow in our yards , prices will crash , and the scum will go away for good.

What makes you believe that drug crimes would be reduced if we increased the availability of marijuana?

Statistics from every country in the world where pot is legal.

Oxycontin, codeine, vicodin, percoset all have legal medical users and they are all widely abused, available on the black market, and often purchased with the proceeds of burglaries.

Condoms and Slurpees are also bought with the proceeds of burglaries. What's your point? But really, there's no proof at all that legal medication encourages burglary.

"But I'm afraid we would simply draw more homeless of all stripes when they realize that Portland, Oregon is the Amsterdam of the West."

Interestingly, pot isn't that big of a deal in Amsterdam. It's the tourists that make it a big deal.

I'm interested in the impact on large-scale Mexican drug operations in the United States if pot were legal.

The international market for illegal drugs is so large, so lucrative and so interconnected to so many other aspects of our civic lives that it's not something where just our little corner of the world is going to make a great difference. These incremental little changes help but ultimately there needs to be a larger player to force the door all the way open. Like California, which doesn't look ready.

Ecohuman,

VERY, VERY, VERY few of those incarcerated for theft/burglary/I.D. theft have clean drug screens. Most of them test positive for several drugs, and many were under the influence when arrested.

Drug addicts steal to get high and to survive: condoms, slurpees, and fritos may also be purchased with their ill gotten gains. But convenience store shopping is not what drives them to steal; feeding the addiction does. You can meet all of your basic needs (sans alcohol/drugs/sex) in Portland by a diverse array of social service providers: you would have to be mentally ill or incredibly lazy to go hungry in this town. Heroin addicts are skinny because they would rather buy more heroin than eat, not because they can't afford a slurpee.

Sally,

I am for a honest debate with honest facts.

Medical marijuana is a politically correct lie: there are a huge number of stoners (in Cali and Oregon) that simply want to legitimize their habit, not to treat any medical condition.

I believe OLCC style retail outlets are ridiculous, and any meaningful tax rate would only encourage an untaxed gray market.

Pot destroys ambition, and has certainly converted many high achieving kids into apathetic losers. I know several pot smoking fiends who started growing their own, then started selling it, then branched out into more profitable substances. The slippery slope risk is more than propaganda.

Billb:

Ever wonder why the smokes are so much cheaper Native American outlets?

Ever heard of moonshine, or unlicensed bars? I've been to both, and they both coexist with legal (though more expensive) alternatives. If you have the time, there are several unlicensed liquor/nightclubs we can visit this weekend: none of them paid any tax to the OLCC.

Sally,

I am for a honest debate with honest facts.

Medical marijuana is a politically correct lie: there are a huge number of stoners (in Cali and Oregon) that simply want to legitimize their habit, not to treat any medical condition.

I believe OLCC style retail outlets are ridiculous, and any meaningful tax rate would only encourage an untaxed gray market.

Pot destroys ambition, and has certainly converted many high achieving kids into apathetic losers. I know several pot smoking fiends who started growing their own, then started selling it, then branched out into more profitable substances. The slippery slope risk is more than propaganda.

Mister Tee, I don't disagree with any of your paragraphs though the speculation about "untaxed gray market" is a bit dubious.

But I strongly thing the concurrent crime, and now rising drug cartels, are a worse consequence to the continuing criminalization than apathetic losers are.

I am also entirely unconvinced that legal marijuana would create any greater society at large of apathetic losers. "Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy in general and here.

I appreciate your concerns; I must add, however than I think only a minority of marijuana users fall head-first down the apathetic loser hole.

Maybe someday

Uh .... "thing" should be "think" and "maybe someday" should have been deleted.