Here's a story that the local media is tiptoeing around: Big-time regional advertiser Les Schwab was busted by the feds for not hiring women as tire changers, and it's paid the government a $2 million settlement to make the case go away.
We love Schwab and wouldn't buy tires anywhere else. Glad to see them putting this behind them. Which reminds me -- my rig is looking a little low on air.
Comments (28)
I thought the discrimination thing was because you cant be promoted to management unless you start in the shop, and women dont apply for those jobs, so they filed a discrimination complaint.
Once I stepped into Les Schwab upon arriving in Oregon 15 years ago, I've never gone anywhere else. It made me sad that the business he and his wife built didn't make it to second generation ownership, with both their two (adult) kids preceding them in death and as I understand it, their daughter not having an interest.
I was aware of this lawsuit and am glad it has been settled, and hope to see women gain more opportunities into their workplace.
Schwabs sells cheap chinese made tires, wheels and batteries at outrgeous prices. Good luck on having them stand by their product. It used to be a decent tire shop when Les was alive and Phil was the president. Now its a joke.
I thought equal pay and opportunities means equal responsibilities? How many guys worked in offices where the guys were routinely asked to do the heavy work including moving furniture?
Never once did I see a woman ask another woman for help. It was always asking the guy to do the heavy work...
I even had an experience at a Les Schwab store where the female service desk person asked me to get down the tire chains I bought because they were too heavy for her to lift off the shelf..
Machine: Sorry to tell you but Goodyear, Costco, Tire Rack and Americaa's Tire Store, etc. all sell the same type made-in-China stuff. You can still buy good American and Canadian built tires and wheels - just do don't look for the cheapest items on sale, since they are usually garbage anyway.
The guys at Les Schwab do back breaking work, in all kinds of weather conditions and they really hustle, too. Now----why wouldn't a woman be able to do the same thing? Incomprehensible. Thank you, US Federal government, for protecting the rights of all of us....and interfering with the privilege of Les Schwab to operate their business in the way that they deem is fair.
It says:
--- William Tamayo, regional attorney for the EEOC in Seattle, said the commission determined that more than 200 women should have been hired between 2004 and 2007, the period of investigation. They included a woman who had worked at a Wal-Mart tire center and another who had been an Army helicopter mechanic, Tamayo said.
"Some women never got interviewed, while in other cases, men with no relevant experience were hired," he said.
[B]ecause the company persistently engaged in discriminatory hiring practices... women were denied Les Schwab management jobs because sales and service experience was a prerequisite for promotion.
----
Get it? Qualified women couldn't even get an interview while unqualified men were hired for SALES (which requires very little physical strength, to my knowledge) and service positions. Furthermore, you can't be a manager without experience in those positions. It was a double-whammy, which is why the EEOC went after them so vehemently. They discovered the one while investigating the other.
I thought equal pay and opportunities means equal responsibilities?
It does. No one was looking for a free ride.
Never once did I see a woman ask another woman for help.
Never? What do you think we do when there's no men around? Shrivel up and die?
The guys at Les Schwab do back breaking work, in all kinds of weather conditions and they really hustle, too. Now----why wouldn't a woman be able to do the same thing?
Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. There are some women who can throw any number of men around - why generalize so? No one is saying that they HAVE to give that job to a 98 lb. waif just because she's a girl, sheesh.
FYI - Equal OPPORTUNITY is not the same as Affirmative Action.
Are you guys stuck in the 50's, or what? We womenfolk do all sorts of things now that you used to protect our tender sensibilities from.
Bartender? What poster are you referring to? Just curious?
"Are you guys stuck in the 50's, or what? We womenfolk do all sorts of things now that you used to protect our tender sensibilities from."
Because if Im one of them, I can tell you I support woman as equal players 100% in the workplace... and when they'd ask me to help them move heavy items and then stand there and watch as I observed many times, I eventually got to the point where Id say "no.. do it yourself or ask a woman to help you." Is there something wrong
with my original response Bartender? Isn't it really in support of treating woman equally? And aren't woman often times the ones guilty of stereotyping and not treating their male co-workers as equals?
In the real workplace men don't have the option you noted.."Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. ". Men are expected to do what their male piers can do? Do you see my point?
Bartender, oh the irony. You tell lies, and you benefit from a double standard, and men are the anachronism? Riiiggghhhtt. Tell me something Bartender, who changes your 156lb. half-barrels of beer? Who takes cases of liquor and bottled beer, pop, malt-liquor, and other spirits from storage to your bar? Do you work past 10:00 p.m. by yourself, or are you accompanied by male coworkers for 'security'? Do you know that there used to be a city-ordinance prohibiting female employees from working independently past 9:00 p.m. in this city?
Lady, you only exist as the result of a double-standard that works in YOUR favor! You can undoubtedly pour drinks but you can't do the rest of your job without the help of a man who will make only an hourly wage.
These so-called tire-changers are required by company policy to 'run' while moving. Failure to do so results in demerits. This is draconian beyond all-belief. Furthermore, there is also a 'clean cut' mandate, true discrimination against men as women don't tend to grow beards, yet it is the couple of gals that we are going to hear about, not the men suffering under abhorrent working conditions. Oh yeah, poor women.
Plus too, your lady-helicopter-pilot got that job handed to her, doesn't count. Oh yeah, the lady working the tire-center at WalMart probably girl-bullied her way into her position using the same tired anti-male rhetoric you just did. What is this evidence of other than for a double-standard which benefits women at the expense of men?
Equal means the same, lady, and men and women are not the same. I'd be all-for a practical division of labor, but no. Instead I will continue to be punished, held-back, unfairly impeded, and MADE the same/equal to you. At Les Schwab men are forced to scrape their face daily, and be inspected, women aren't. These tire-changer jobs are dirty, out in the weather, and extremely physical while the female employees at 'Schwab enjoy climate control, and paper-work. Males there are expected to be competitive, and must show that style of initiative to get promoted, while apparently all the women have to do is hire a judge.
This should have been an opportunity to address the draconian, abhorrent, working conditions at that company, instead it's another anti-male fest. Jeezus lady, if you're so damn equal why do you need a court, a judge, and ostensibly an Army National Guard armed with Colt M14As pointed at my head, to get your way?
In the real workplace men don't have the option you noted.."Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. ". Men are expected to do what their male piers can do? Do you see my point?
Huh?
Men most certainly can too apply for these jobs - or not - just like women should be able to. So yes, of course, men have the same "option" I noted because some men can do it - and want to - and some can't.
Again, no one is saying they HAVE to give a job like this (or any other) to someone physically (or otherwise) unable to perform the duties required - male or female. No one is saying that women should get equal pay or job opportunities without doing the same work as their counterparts in the same position. That is not what this case is about. These women were not asking for special consideration or for lesser job duties. They WERE willing to do what their male peers do. Do YOU see the point?
Was moving furniture and other heavy items without assistance a posted requirement in order to be hired in your office? I really doubt it, but if it was, then you'd have every right to your position. But if it wasn't, it sounds like everyone in the office - male and female alike - have every right to refuse and/or seek assistance of some sort.
Afterall, we don't ask hospital orderlies to operate on people. We don't expect pilots to move pianos. Why should an office worker be required to move heavy objects if it's not part of the job description? I'm sorry, but it's a ridiculous analogy.
And yes, Robert, I'm sure women are "often times the ones guilty of stereotyping and not treating their male co-workers as equals." That's just as bad as the other way around.
As an aside, I often work with an all-female staff. We don't just stand there, throwing our hands up, when it comes time to change a keg, for instance, (which in my establishment means taking a full keg from the outside walk-in cooler and moving it about 300 yards to the bar, then lifting it up and back 6" into the cooler - no easy feat). We work together.
Usually though, a big, male customer will OFFER to help, thankfully. Just like I'd help anyone (male or female) struggling with something if I were able. It's the decent thing to do. I'm sure glad I don't live in your bitter, little world.
There is absolutely no correlation between having the physical strength necessary to change out tires and wheels all day long and an aptitude for management. The problem with Les Schwab's corporate culture is that you have to be a tire grunt before you can be a tire boss, and the perception is that women don't have the capacity to meet the physical demands of being a tire grunt so they aren't considered for management. I'm sure they have their token female manager here and there. All in all it is a pattern of blatant discrimination because women aren't being given opportunities based on the macho BS belief that you need to be a man to run a tire shop.
No Vance, all men are not the anachronism, just some of them commenting here. You see, I try not to make broad generalizations about a whole group or class of people... which is the point.
You know absolutely nothing about me or my job other than what I've posted here. Yet you've declared that I'm a liar who "only exist[s] as the result of a double-standard that works in" my favor. Nice.
How can you make those pronouncements about someone you don't even know? Oh, that's right. You can do it because I'm a woman and all women are the same. And that's all you need to know. Thanks for proving my point.
So Vance, as I stated above, I DO change my own kegs when I have to, using the intelligence I was blessed with to do it however is easiest. Even the apes and other lower animals use tools and cooperation to accomplish things the individual on his own cannot. That means using a hand-truck (duh!) and getting one of my usually female co-workers to help lift it in place.
And though I never ask a customer for help, oftentimes they'll offer, and I accept. Just like my elderly, infirm, male owner used to when he filled in. Just like I helped the really short clerk at the store grab a product high up on a shelf that he couldn't reach the other day. These are far different things than demanding equal pay without doing equal work.
Who takes cases of liquor and bottled beer, pop, malt-liquor, and other spirits from storage to your bar?
ME. No one else. I don't have a bar back - or assistance of any kind in the bar. I do it all baby. Bartender, bar back, baby-sitter, and bouncer. And I'm 130 lbs. and nearly 50.
Yeah,that's right... I said bouncer. I am required by law to maintain order in my establishment, buddy. Get a clue. I'm not going to do it the way some men might - by getting all fierce and up in their faces - but I've never had an altercation in the bar that I couldn't handle on my own.
Do you work past 10:00 p.m. by yourself
Uh, yeah. I have a cook (all female, on my shifts) until about 10pm, then I'm all on my own. I have no security - male or otherwise - and have to close up, do my tills and bookwork (involving thousands of dollars), and leave my very dark and (at that time of night) isolated rural establishment all by my 'lil lonesome.
That's how it's been almost everywhere I've worked. And that's a lot of places in 3 different states over the past 30 years.
Do you know that there used to be a city-ordinance prohibiting female employees from working independently past 9:00 p.m. in this city?
So? There used to be a law prohibiting women from voting too. This is the most inane justification I've heard yet.
You can undoubtedly pour drinks but you can't do the rest of your job without the help of a man who will make only an hourly wage.
Besides being patently false, you have no understanding of the bar and restaurant business if you think the people - almost as often girls as guys - performing the duties of a bar back, (or dishwasher, cook, DJ, bouncer or any other) "make only an hourly wage." In nearly all establishments, servers and bartenders tip out these "helpers" - sometimes at an exactly proscribed rate.
Plus too, your lady-helicopter-pilot got that job handed to her, doesn't count. Oh yeah, the lady working the tire-center at WalMart probably girl-bullied her way into her position using the same tired anti-male rhetoric you just did. What is this evidence of other than for a double-standard which benefits women at the expense of men?
Evidence? LOL!! It's quite humorous to hear you make claims for which you have no proof (lady pilot got the job handed to her, WalMart employee girl-bullied her way in) and then speak of these things as "evidence." They're only evidence of your delusional thought processes. Just cuz you say it, doesn't make it so.
Males there are expected to be competitive, and must show that style of initiative to get promoted, while apparently all the women have to do is hire a judge.
Yeah. That's "ALL" they had to do. Easy-peasey. Sat around eating bon-bons on their pretty little butts while this was being decided for them. Oh, and where can I hire a judge? ;)
Look, if you want to turn this into "an opportunity to address the draconian, abhorrent, working conditions at that company," be my guest. But your obvious wrath and bitterness toward the opposite sex belies your real motivation here. Else you'd be wondering why women would want such a horrible job in the first place. Not bitching about them wanting to relieve your dear male comrades of such a dismal fate.
Please, how is advocating for equal treatment for ALL, "anti-male rhetoric"? I'm not anti-male at all. I love guys. I'm just anti-asshole. Male or female. So if the shoe fits....
I recently bought two tires at Firestone and everything was great. And they also had female workers changing tires, so at least they are in compliance with the law in that respect.
Way to go, Bartender! Not only strong in your job, but well-written and logical as well! (Of course, if we really want to go back in history, men like Vance said we couldn't be writers, because we weren't smart enough to go to school! And, we needed to make lots of babies.)
I hope on one of the infrequent trips I make to a drinking establishment, I cross paths with yours.
Bartender, I don't want to upset you or get into this fantastic fight, but you stated that you have to haul kegs 300 yards. 300 yards is 900 ft, or almost 1/4 of a mile. Is this an exaggeration?
Tell us where this bar is, I'd like to see this discriminatory layout of their facilities. It's probably not to OHSA standards.
My bad. In the heat of my ire, I erred. I should have said 100 yds or 300 ft. I'm not too good at estimating distance, but I imagine it to be about the length of a football field. Probably is even less.
Once it's on the dolly, it's really no big deal to wheel a full keg around if you have a clear path. It's the getting it in and out of the coolers that's the drag. So, I shouldn't have emphasized the distance - especially since I screwed it up so - cuz it doesn't really matter. I can be dramatic at times. Especially when I'm so riled up.
"You see, I try not to make broad generalizations about a whole group or class of people..."
"Are you guys stuck in the 50's, or what?"
Hmm, last I checked 'guys' lacks the distinction you make in that first statement. Woops. I think your halo slipped.
"You know absolutely nothing about me or my job other than what I've posted here."
"How can you make those pronouncements about someone you don't even know?"
Make up your mind. Do I know the things you've posted here (Yes, yes I do.) or not? That's hardly nothing. Moreover, I worked in the service industry for over 22 years, 15 of which was spent behind a bar. I'd wager I know more about your job than you do. Apropo of nothing really, but I have lots of information about you, and you provided all of it. More than enough to judge you, and the giant-sized insecurity-chip on your shoulder. Insecurity smacks of guilt.
"I DO change my own kegs when I have to,..."
This is a bald-faced lie. If you did do this you'd have seen the words 'Half-Barrel' printed right next to the 15.5 gal. stamped into the top of the barrel. A 'keg' is an english measurement equal to 13.2 gal. and they aren't used domestically, unless by special request. If you were much of a bar-tender, you'd know how fussy about inventory we are. Jargon helps. Plus too, they're not used in a CO2 pressurized system, statistically, highly likely the system you're using. Plus, I am 6'-5" tall, and 200lbs. A 156lb. half-barrel is all I can do to move it from the dolly (Not a hand-truck mind you.) to the cooler. Statistically, it's a very good bet you can't lift more than your own body wieght, even for a second, let alone manage it into a cooler. Liar.
"But your obvious wrath and bitterness toward the opposite sex belies your real motivation here. Else you'd be wondering why women would want such a horrible job in the first place."
And there we have it. Tire-runner, or whatever, is beneath the ladies, huh? This is the only point. If these women avoid 'paying dues', that men have to pay, by litigating, then I've made my case. It's the same s**t on the loading dock with an office. A dock full of guys breaking their backs, and the office full of a bunch of fat, litigeous, do-nothings. I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of anonymous cowards hurling insults on the internet.
Are you being willfully obtuse Vance, or are you really just not that bright? I'll go slowly. [And I'm truly sorry to everyone else for the tedium. But I really object to repeatedly being called a liar.]
I am not making broad generalizations about ALL men by saying "you guys." Any size group of two or more men is correctly called "guys," is it not? Since I wrote that bit about being stuck in the 50's immediately after quoting - and replying to - the three statements I found objectionable, it should be rather apparent that I was referring to the TWO guyS who made them. Not the entire male gender. Geez, Vance, project much?
Whatever it is you think you know about me, it's not enough to call me a liar, or to dispute defiantly what MY working conditions or duties are. Not by what's been posted here, you don't.
[And so what's up with that whole rant about "having lots of information on me" anyway? You've got that creepy stalker vibe going, Vance. Knock it off. And you have the gall to criticize some of us who use a pseudonym.]
As I said earlier, I've been in the bar business 30 years- since I was 19, (which - before you call me a liar again - was the legal drinking age in my home state at the time). Do your superior math skills also insist 22 is more than 30?
Whatever. Neener, neener, neener. 22 years or 30? Who gives a shit? 5 years in the business is enough to know what's up. Enough to know that women do the job without help from men all the time, anyway. Hell, you could sit in a bar for a couple hours and figure that out. Your contention that they don't is simply absurd. Your insistence that I don't, borders on the pathological.
Even after 30 years I don't claim to know it all. (Unlike pretentious fakes who use the Google machine to pass off a cut-n-paste treatise on beer and its proper nomenclature as his own.)
I've worked nearly my whole career in small, mostly rural, mostly blue collar, neighborhood bars. I don't know how to make the latest frou-frou, fad drink they're downing in the Pearl. I've never had the "pleasure" of serving the self-avowed experts debating the merits of the Imperial Pint at a yuppy brew pub. My biggest sellers are currently well vodka and Coors Lite.
And in every bar I've ever worked, we call that big silver thing full of beer a friggin "keg." And we serve the stuff that comes out of it in a "pounder."
So jargon counts, huh? I'd love to see you come in to my bar and correct the regulars by telling them that it's properly called a half-barrel when they ask about the keg. LOL! I bet you make a lot in tips with an attitude like that. Personally, they can call it anything they like, as long as we all know what we're talking about.
Which is the crux here. We were all talking about that big heavy silver thing full of beer, Vance - even you. The point was that it was heavy, not what its proper name is.
To then jump on my using the common nomenclature as proof positive that I've never, EVER, in 30 years time on the job, moved a keg, or even changed a tap; nay- never even SEEN the top of a keg, is really pathetic, there Sherlock. Try as you desperately might, you can't prove something you so obviously could not possibly know. Give it up.
And Hello, McFly?? YOU are the one who said the service (tire changers) positions were so bad. I simply quoted yourself back to you. If you can't grasp that concept, and the point I was getting at there, you are beyond hope. Beyond my time and patience to explain, anyway.
I've reiterated endlessly that the women in this case don't want special treatment or to do anything less than their male counterparts.
I've repeated several times that I get a coworker (often female) to help lift kegs into the cooler if a customer hasn't already made the offer.
Maybe you don't actually read what I've written before shooting off your ugly mouth and declaring me a liar. Maybe you're reading comprehension is just really piss-poor. Whatever your problem, it's no excuse - you rude, ignorant, little man; so obviously bitter and alone.
It's the same s**t on the loading dock with an office. A dock full of guys breaking their backs, and the office full of a bunch of fat, litigeous, do-nothings.
It is an exercise in futility to try to reason with an unreasonable man, to use logic with someone so demonstrably illogical, to invest time and effort in a person as intellectually lazy as you, Vance.
I'm done with this. Flame away. I'm really beginning to enjoy watching you play the fool.
At work now. There is no "Half Barrel" printed, embossed or otherwise appearing on the top of a keg - or anywhere else for that matter. Be happy to post pics if I knew how.
I didn't think there was, but I like to check my facts before spewing forth nonsense. Unlike you Vance.
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
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14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
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Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
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Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
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J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
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Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
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Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
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Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
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Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 29
At this date last year: 66
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (28)
I thought the discrimination thing was because you cant be promoted to management unless you start in the shop, and women dont apply for those jobs, so they filed a discrimination complaint.
Posted by Jon | March 14, 2010 3:21 PM
"Flats fixed free for lady drivers."
I always hated the sexist, discriminatory practices of Les Schwab.
I even claimed that I drove like a lady driver, but nope, no flats fixed free for me!
"Free beef!" What about vegans?
The discrimination!!
Posted by Harry | March 14, 2010 3:40 PM
I wonder what Les does for bisexuals with flat tires?
Perhaps they fix the leak but they need to blow it up themselves?
Posted by Abe | March 14, 2010 4:39 PM
Aren't bisexuals usually male or female? ;)
Posted by none | March 14, 2010 5:00 PM
Wow. What part of this story don't the previous comment makers get?
Posted by LucsAdvo | March 14, 2010 5:03 PM
Once I stepped into Les Schwab upon arriving in Oregon 15 years ago, I've never gone anywhere else. It made me sad that the business he and his wife built didn't make it to second generation ownership, with both their two (adult) kids preceding them in death and as I understand it, their daughter not having an interest.
I was aware of this lawsuit and am glad it has been settled, and hope to see women gain more opportunities into their workplace.
Posted by Sarah Bott | March 14, 2010 5:09 PM
"Flats fixed free for lady drivers."
Hmm, over the years, not once have I been charged for a flat repair. Even for tires I didnt buy there.
Posted by Jon | March 14, 2010 5:54 PM
Schwabs sells cheap chinese made tires, wheels and batteries at outrgeous prices. Good luck on having them stand by their product. It used to be a decent tire shop when Les was alive and Phil was the president. Now its a joke.
Posted by Machine | March 14, 2010 6:11 PM
I thought equal pay and opportunities means equal responsibilities? How many guys worked in offices where the guys were routinely asked to do the heavy work including moving furniture?
Never once did I see a woman ask another woman for help. It was always asking the guy to do the heavy work...
I even had an experience at a Les Schwab store where the female service desk person asked me to get down the tire chains I bought because they were too heavy for her to lift off the shelf..
Posted by Robert | March 14, 2010 8:09 PM
I was a loyal customer until they sold me calipers I most likely didn't need and then installed them incorrectly at the SE Powell store.
This story isn't winning me back either.
Posted by abs | March 14, 2010 9:34 PM
Hmm, over the years, not once have I been charged for a flat repair. Even for tires I didnt buy there.
Same here. I'm a woman, but many of my guy friends say the same thing and I've never heard anyone at Schwab say it was free only for ladies.
Posted by Bartender | March 14, 2010 9:51 PM
Machine: Sorry to tell you but Goodyear, Costco, Tire Rack and Americaa's Tire Store, etc. all sell the same type made-in-China stuff. You can still buy good American and Canadian built tires and wheels - just do don't look for the cheapest items on sale, since they are usually garbage anyway.
Posted by Dave A. | March 14, 2010 9:52 PM
The guys at Les Schwab do back breaking work, in all kinds of weather conditions and they really hustle, too. Now----why wouldn't a woman be able to do the same thing? Incomprehensible. Thank you, US Federal government, for protecting the rights of all of us....and interfering with the privilege of Les Schwab to operate their business in the way that they deem is fair.
Posted by Ron Swaren | March 14, 2010 10:07 PM
Simply amazing. Did some of you even bother reading more about the suit before making up your (very small) minds?
Jack's link didn't work for me (registration required) but a very quick Google search turned up this one: http://www.leagle.com/unsecure/news.do?feed=yellowbrix&storyid=142399582
It says:
---
William Tamayo, regional attorney for the EEOC in Seattle, said the commission determined that more than 200 women should have been hired between 2004 and 2007, the period of investigation. They included a woman who had worked at a Wal-Mart tire center and another who had been an Army helicopter mechanic, Tamayo said.
"Some women never got interviewed, while in other cases, men with no relevant experience were hired," he said.
[B]ecause the company persistently engaged in discriminatory hiring practices... women were denied Les Schwab management jobs because sales and service experience was a prerequisite for promotion.
----
Get it? Qualified women couldn't even get an interview while unqualified men were hired for SALES (which requires very little physical strength, to my knowledge) and service positions. Furthermore, you can't be a manager without experience in those positions. It was a double-whammy, which is why the EEOC went after them so vehemently. They discovered the one while investigating the other.
I thought equal pay and opportunities means equal responsibilities?
It does. No one was looking for a free ride.
Never once did I see a woman ask another woman for help.
Never? What do you think we do when there's no men around? Shrivel up and die?
The guys at Les Schwab do back breaking work, in all kinds of weather conditions and they really hustle, too. Now----why wouldn't a woman be able to do the same thing?
Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. There are some women who can throw any number of men around - why generalize so? No one is saying that they HAVE to give that job to a 98 lb. waif just because she's a girl, sheesh.
FYI - Equal OPPORTUNITY is not the same as Affirmative Action.
Are you guys stuck in the 50's, or what? We womenfolk do all sorts of things now that you used to protect our tender sensibilities from.
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 2:30 AM
Bartender? What poster are you referring to? Just curious?
"Are you guys stuck in the 50's, or what? We womenfolk do all sorts of things now that you used to protect our tender sensibilities from."
Because if Im one of them, I can tell you I support woman as equal players 100% in the workplace... and when they'd ask me to help them move heavy items and then stand there and watch as I observed many times, I eventually got to the point where Id say "no.. do it yourself or ask a woman to help you." Is there something wrong
with my original response Bartender? Isn't it really in support of treating woman equally? And aren't woman often times the ones guilty of stereotyping and not treating their male co-workers as equals?
In the real workplace men don't have the option you noted.."Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. ". Men are expected to do what their male piers can do? Do you see my point?
Posted by Robert | March 15, 2010 6:11 AM
Bartender, oh the irony. You tell lies, and you benefit from a double standard, and men are the anachronism? Riiiggghhhtt. Tell me something Bartender, who changes your 156lb. half-barrels of beer? Who takes cases of liquor and bottled beer, pop, malt-liquor, and other spirits from storage to your bar? Do you work past 10:00 p.m. by yourself, or are you accompanied by male coworkers for 'security'? Do you know that there used to be a city-ordinance prohibiting female employees from working independently past 9:00 p.m. in this city?
Lady, you only exist as the result of a double-standard that works in YOUR favor! You can undoubtedly pour drinks but you can't do the rest of your job without the help of a man who will make only an hourly wage.
These so-called tire-changers are required by company policy to 'run' while moving. Failure to do so results in demerits. This is draconian beyond all-belief. Furthermore, there is also a 'clean cut' mandate, true discrimination against men as women don't tend to grow beards, yet it is the couple of gals that we are going to hear about, not the men suffering under abhorrent working conditions. Oh yeah, poor women.
Plus too, your lady-helicopter-pilot got that job handed to her, doesn't count. Oh yeah, the lady working the tire-center at WalMart probably girl-bullied her way into her position using the same tired anti-male rhetoric you just did. What is this evidence of other than for a double-standard which benefits women at the expense of men?
Equal means the same, lady, and men and women are not the same. I'd be all-for a practical division of labor, but no. Instead I will continue to be punished, held-back, unfairly impeded, and MADE the same/equal to you. At Les Schwab men are forced to scrape their face daily, and be inspected, women aren't. These tire-changer jobs are dirty, out in the weather, and extremely physical while the female employees at 'Schwab enjoy climate control, and paper-work. Males there are expected to be competitive, and must show that style of initiative to get promoted, while apparently all the women have to do is hire a judge.
This should have been an opportunity to address the draconian, abhorrent, working conditions at that company, instead it's another anti-male fest. Jeezus lady, if you're so damn equal why do you need a court, a judge, and ostensibly an Army National Guard armed with Colt M14As pointed at my head, to get your way?
Posted by Vance Longwell | March 15, 2010 8:08 AM
In the real workplace men don't have the option you noted.."Some women can do it - and want to - and some can't. ". Men are expected to do what their male piers can do? Do you see my point?
Huh?
Men most certainly can too apply for these jobs - or not - just like women should be able to. So yes, of course, men have the same "option" I noted because some men can do it - and want to - and some can't.
Again, no one is saying they HAVE to give a job like this (or any other) to someone physically (or otherwise) unable to perform the duties required - male or female. No one is saying that women should get equal pay or job opportunities without doing the same work as their counterparts in the same position. That is not what this case is about. These women were not asking for special consideration or for lesser job duties. They WERE willing to do what their male peers do. Do YOU see the point?
Was moving furniture and other heavy items without assistance a posted requirement in order to be hired in your office? I really doubt it, but if it was, then you'd have every right to your position. But if it wasn't, it sounds like everyone in the office - male and female alike - have every right to refuse and/or seek assistance of some sort.
Afterall, we don't ask hospital orderlies to operate on people. We don't expect pilots to move pianos. Why should an office worker be required to move heavy objects if it's not part of the job description? I'm sorry, but it's a ridiculous analogy.
And yes, Robert, I'm sure women are "often times the ones guilty of stereotyping and not treating their male co-workers as equals." That's just as bad as the other way around.
As an aside, I often work with an all-female staff. We don't just stand there, throwing our hands up, when it comes time to change a keg, for instance, (which in my establishment means taking a full keg from the outside walk-in cooler and moving it about 300 yards to the bar, then lifting it up and back 6" into the cooler - no easy feat). We work together.
Usually though, a big, male customer will OFFER to help, thankfully. Just like I'd help anyone (male or female) struggling with something if I were able. It's the decent thing to do. I'm sure glad I don't live in your bitter, little world.
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 8:14 AM
There is absolutely no correlation between having the physical strength necessary to change out tires and wheels all day long and an aptitude for management. The problem with Les Schwab's corporate culture is that you have to be a tire grunt before you can be a tire boss, and the perception is that women don't have the capacity to meet the physical demands of being a tire grunt so they aren't considered for management. I'm sure they have their token female manager here and there. All in all it is a pattern of blatant discrimination because women aren't being given opportunities based on the macho BS belief that you need to be a man to run a tire shop.
Posted by Usual Kevin | March 15, 2010 8:55 AM
No Vance, all men are not the anachronism, just some of them commenting here. You see, I try not to make broad generalizations about a whole group or class of people... which is the point.
You know absolutely nothing about me or my job other than what I've posted here. Yet you've declared that I'm a liar who "only exist[s] as the result of a double-standard that works in" my favor. Nice.
How can you make those pronouncements about someone you don't even know? Oh, that's right. You can do it because I'm a woman and all women are the same. And that's all you need to know. Thanks for proving my point.
So Vance, as I stated above, I DO change my own kegs when I have to, using the intelligence I was blessed with to do it however is easiest. Even the apes and other lower animals use tools and cooperation to accomplish things the individual on his own cannot. That means using a hand-truck (duh!) and getting one of my usually female co-workers to help lift it in place.
And though I never ask a customer for help, oftentimes they'll offer, and I accept. Just like my elderly, infirm, male owner used to when he filled in. Just like I helped the really short clerk at the store grab a product high up on a shelf that he couldn't reach the other day. These are far different things than demanding equal pay without doing equal work.
Who takes cases of liquor and bottled beer, pop, malt-liquor, and other spirits from storage to your bar?
ME. No one else. I don't have a bar back - or assistance of any kind in the bar. I do it all baby. Bartender, bar back, baby-sitter, and bouncer. And I'm 130 lbs. and nearly 50.
Yeah,that's right... I said bouncer. I am required by law to maintain order in my establishment, buddy. Get a clue. I'm not going to do it the way some men might - by getting all fierce and up in their faces - but I've never had an altercation in the bar that I couldn't handle on my own.
Do you work past 10:00 p.m. by yourself
Uh, yeah. I have a cook (all female, on my shifts) until about 10pm, then I'm all on my own. I have no security - male or otherwise - and have to close up, do my tills and bookwork (involving thousands of dollars), and leave my very dark and (at that time of night) isolated rural establishment all by my 'lil lonesome.
That's how it's been almost everywhere I've worked. And that's a lot of places in 3 different states over the past 30 years.
Do you know that there used to be a city-ordinance prohibiting female employees from working independently past 9:00 p.m. in this city?
So? There used to be a law prohibiting women from voting too. This is the most inane justification I've heard yet.
You can undoubtedly pour drinks but you can't do the rest of your job without the help of a man who will make only an hourly wage.
Besides being patently false, you have no understanding of the bar and restaurant business if you think the people - almost as often girls as guys - performing the duties of a bar back, (or dishwasher, cook, DJ, bouncer or any other) "make only an hourly wage." In nearly all establishments, servers and bartenders tip out these "helpers" - sometimes at an exactly proscribed rate.
Plus too, your lady-helicopter-pilot got that job handed to her, doesn't count. Oh yeah, the lady working the tire-center at WalMart probably girl-bullied her way into her position using the same tired anti-male rhetoric you just did. What is this evidence of other than for a double-standard which benefits women at the expense of men?
Evidence? LOL!! It's quite humorous to hear you make claims for which you have no proof (lady pilot got the job handed to her, WalMart employee girl-bullied her way in) and then speak of these things as "evidence." They're only evidence of your delusional thought processes. Just cuz you say it, doesn't make it so.
Males there are expected to be competitive, and must show that style of initiative to get promoted, while apparently all the women have to do is hire a judge.
Yeah. That's "ALL" they had to do. Easy-peasey. Sat around eating bon-bons on their pretty little butts while this was being decided for them. Oh, and where can I hire a judge? ;)
Look, if you want to turn this into "an opportunity to address the draconian, abhorrent, working conditions at that company," be my guest. But your obvious wrath and bitterness toward the opposite sex belies your real motivation here. Else you'd be wondering why women would want such a horrible job in the first place. Not bitching about them wanting to relieve your dear male comrades of such a dismal fate.
Please, how is advocating for equal treatment for ALL, "anti-male rhetoric"? I'm not anti-male at all. I love guys. I'm just anti-asshole. Male or female. So if the shoe fits....
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 10:03 AM
I recently bought two tires at Firestone and everything was great. And they also had female workers changing tires, so at least they are in compliance with the law in that respect.
Posted by ep | March 15, 2010 10:45 AM
Way to go, Bartender! Not only strong in your job, but well-written and logical as well! (Of course, if we really want to go back in history, men like Vance said we couldn't be writers, because we weren't smart enough to go to school! And, we needed to make lots of babies.)
I hope on one of the infrequent trips I make to a drinking establishment, I cross paths with yours.
Posted by umpire | March 15, 2010 12:30 PM
Thanks for that ep. But you know, they probably just "girl-bullied" their way in.
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 12:33 PM
And you too, umpire. It would be my pleasure, I'm sure.
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 12:36 PM
Bartender, I don't want to upset you or get into this fantastic fight, but you stated that you have to haul kegs 300 yards. 300 yards is 900 ft, or almost 1/4 of a mile. Is this an exaggeration?
Tell us where this bar is, I'd like to see this discriminatory layout of their facilities. It's probably not to OHSA standards.
Posted by lw | March 15, 2010 1:19 PM
My bad. In the heat of my ire, I erred. I should have said 100 yds or 300 ft. I'm not too good at estimating distance, but I imagine it to be about the length of a football field. Probably is even less.
Once it's on the dolly, it's really no big deal to wheel a full keg around if you have a clear path. It's the getting it in and out of the coolers that's the drag. So, I shouldn't have emphasized the distance - especially since I screwed it up so - cuz it doesn't really matter. I can be dramatic at times. Especially when I'm so riled up.
Posted by Bartender | March 15, 2010 8:20 PM
Posted by Vance Longwell | March 15, 2010 9:19 PM
Are you being willfully obtuse Vance, or are you really just not that bright? I'll go slowly. [And I'm truly sorry to everyone else for the tedium. But I really object to repeatedly being called a liar.]
I am not making broad generalizations about ALL men by saying "you guys." Any size group of two or more men is correctly called "guys," is it not? Since I wrote that bit about being stuck in the 50's immediately after quoting - and replying to - the three statements I found objectionable, it should be rather apparent that I was referring to the TWO guyS who made them. Not the entire male gender. Geez, Vance, project much?
Whatever it is you think you know about me, it's not enough to call me a liar, or to dispute defiantly what MY working conditions or duties are. Not by what's been posted here, you don't.
[And so what's up with that whole rant about "having lots of information on me" anyway? You've got that creepy stalker vibe going, Vance. Knock it off. And you have the gall to criticize some of us who use a pseudonym.]
As I said earlier, I've been in the bar business 30 years- since I was 19, (which - before you call me a liar again - was the legal drinking age in my home state at the time). Do your superior math skills also insist 22 is more than 30?
Whatever. Neener, neener, neener. 22 years or 30? Who gives a shit? 5 years in the business is enough to know what's up. Enough to know that women do the job without help from men all the time, anyway. Hell, you could sit in a bar for a couple hours and figure that out. Your contention that they don't is simply absurd. Your insistence that I don't, borders on the pathological.
Even after 30 years I don't claim to know it all. (Unlike pretentious fakes who use the Google machine to pass off a cut-n-paste treatise on beer and its proper nomenclature as his own.)
I've worked nearly my whole career in small, mostly rural, mostly blue collar, neighborhood bars. I don't know how to make the latest frou-frou, fad drink they're downing in the Pearl. I've never had the "pleasure" of serving the self-avowed experts debating the merits of the Imperial Pint at a yuppy brew pub. My biggest sellers are currently well vodka and Coors Lite.
And in every bar I've ever worked, we call that big silver thing full of beer a friggin "keg." And we serve the stuff that comes out of it in a "pounder."
So jargon counts, huh? I'd love to see you come in to my bar and correct the regulars by telling them that it's properly called a half-barrel when they ask about the keg. LOL! I bet you make a lot in tips with an attitude like that. Personally, they can call it anything they like, as long as we all know what we're talking about.
Which is the crux here. We were all talking about that big heavy silver thing full of beer, Vance - even you. The point was that it was heavy, not what its proper name is.
To then jump on my using the common nomenclature as proof positive that I've never, EVER, in 30 years time on the job, moved a keg, or even changed a tap; nay- never even SEEN the top of a keg, is really pathetic, there Sherlock. Try as you desperately might, you can't prove something you so obviously could not possibly know. Give it up.
And Hello, McFly?? YOU are the one who said the service (tire changers) positions were so bad. I simply quoted yourself back to you. If you can't grasp that concept, and the point I was getting at there, you are beyond hope. Beyond my time and patience to explain, anyway.
I've reiterated endlessly that the women in this case don't want special treatment or to do anything less than their male counterparts.
I've repeated several times that I get a coworker (often female) to help lift kegs into the cooler if a customer hasn't already made the offer.
Maybe you don't actually read what I've written before shooting off your ugly mouth and declaring me a liar. Maybe you're reading comprehension is just really piss-poor. Whatever your problem, it's no excuse - you rude, ignorant, little man; so obviously bitter and alone.
It's the same s**t on the loading dock with an office. A dock full of guys breaking their backs, and the office full of a bunch of fat, litigeous, do-nothings.
It is an exercise in futility to try to reason with an unreasonable man, to use logic with someone so demonstrably illogical, to invest time and effort in a person as intellectually lazy as you, Vance.
I'm done with this. Flame away. I'm really beginning to enjoy watching you play the fool.
Posted by Bartender | March 16, 2010 7:45 AM
At work now. There is no "Half Barrel" printed, embossed or otherwise appearing on the top of a keg - or anywhere else for that matter. Be happy to post pics if I knew how.
I didn't think there was, but I like to check my facts before spewing forth nonsense. Unlike you Vance.
Posted by Bartender | March 16, 2010 8:48 PM