Hmmmm Option 2 - Keep America's pass time in Portlandia at same debt level and same revenue level versus the loser options. It's too logical for some people I guess.

Gotta admit, Beavers players have a loyalty bond with Portland equal to a bus load of Greyhound passengers. Make it worth their while and some might stay.

But then that is true with the Blazer players, no?

Ok then, how about extending WES to the Volcanoe's stadium in Keizer?

I am probably in the minority, but I just don't care about either team.
I would like the schools to be funded, the streets maintained and bridges fixed, and the city's debt load reduced, not increased.
If these teams are such great money makers then let the team owners and fans finance them.
And that goes for hotels too!

What happens when "Pro Soccer" collapses a year or two after the remodel? You need a fifth quadrant in that square showing $65 million + debt and no income stream. Man, talk about a lapse in logic and journalism. How dare you chastise the Trib for theirs, sheesh!

I am a Timbers fan and I completely agree with Portland Native. As much as I enjoy a night out at PGE park, I would prefer that our current social obligations have been met, (e.g. schools, police, fire, rescue).

How about if both teams stay and Paulson goes?

Maybe we're reaching the "loan" stage here. Can't we have Sam Adams contact Don Garber of MLS and say there's a cash envelope with the receptionist at city hall? In it we leave a million dollars, in case Garber is behind on any bills.
Maybe he'll go for it. Then afterwards - but not connected to the "loan" in any way - Garber could announce that he's now okay with a dual-use PGE Park.

If anyone objects we just trot out our Mafia-fighting tough guy State Attorney General to say the deal looks clean to him.

I would also recommend a few provisions in the deal that won't cost anything now but could help out greatly in the future:

In the event the economy continues to tank, and this really does turn out to be the collapse of the United States as an economic power, Merritt Paulson has to agree to let the citizens of Portland camp out in PGE Park. This goes for a big earthquake as well.

Of course, that's just in case we're not prepared because our civic leaders have spent all their time sucking up to the Paulsons or any of the other Wall Street types who helped bankrupt America.

@Bill M
The envelopes have already been received.
Bloomberg reports that Morgan Stanley is repackaging its toxic assets as AAA securities.
The soccer/baseball scam is just Paulson's version for Portland. Scam and Randy are just too stupid to realize it.

Why does the City's economic development strategy remind me of Shel Silverstein's poem, "Smart" ... ?

My dad gave me one dollar bill
'Cause I'm his smartest son,
And I swapped it for two shiny quarters
'Cause two is more than one!

And then I took the quarters
And traded them to Lou
For three dimes -- I guess he don't know
That three is more than two!

Just then, along came old blind Bates
And just 'cause he can't see
He gave me four nickels for my three dimes,
And four is more than three!

And I took the nickels to Hiram Coombs
Down at the seed-feed store,
And the fool gave me five pennies for them,
And five is more than four!

And then I went and showed my dad,
And he got red in the cheeks
And closed his eyes and shook his head--
Too proud of me to speak!

Thanks, GW.

I forgot how therapeutic a good chuckle could be.

Well maybe Redden proves that corruption is not a City Council "ONLY" thing. There should be enough grease for everyone. Not much money at the Trib, gotta make it when you can. My opinion.

Perhaps Mr. Redden is up for that Transportation Dept. job recently posted for City Hall . .

Minor note: I believe it's Jeremy Wright, not David.

How does minor league baseball territory come into play? If the Beavers relocate within the Portland area doesn't that prohibit another minor league team from relocating to the region and using PGE Park?

The reason the Beavers can't stay in PGE park is because he's betting the public is more willing to build them a new stadium than to build one for the new MLS. If he floated the idea of a special new stadium for his new MLS team, and left the Beavers alone, no one would really attach any urgency to it. By deliberately creating this situation where the Beavers future is jeopordized, he's more certain to get what he wants. Shameful and manipulative. But Scam and Fireboy are happy to do his schilling.

If the Timbers leave the Beavers will not be able to generate enough revenue to continue paying off the renovation, and in any case the stadium as is, is too large for the Beavers to adequately fill.

It's actually a highly likely scenario if a deal isn't reached. If the Timbers don't go MLS, they will fold, because they have no other teams to play west of Denver, and no money to do all that flying. If the Timbers go, they leave the Beavers at PGE, and their time will likely be short after that.

Oh noes! Paulson would take both teams out of Portland? Even though there's no way in hell that another city could afford to host a new team right now, or that no other would touch the sort of insane deals that Paulson is demanding? Say it ain't so!

Minor note: I believe it's Jeremy Wright, not David.

Corrected. Thank you.

You need a fifth quadrant in that square showing $65 million + debt and no income stream. Man, talk about a lapse in logic and journalism.

There could actually be eight boxes. Outcome 1 could have two, one or no income streams; and Outcomes 2 and 3 could have one or no income stream.

Its a very old and well known sales tactic to attach fake urgency to a sale in order to force a decision, and that's exactly what Paulson is doing here.

He may as well be the car dealer saying "I got a guy coming down this afternoon with cash to buy this car, so if you want it, you better act right now!"

If the Timbers leave the Beavers will not be able to generate enough revenue to continue paying off the renovation, and in any case the stadium as is, is too large for the Beavers to adequately fill.

The Beavers and Timbers are not coming anywhere near "paying off the renovation" now. The debt service is $3 million and upkeep by the city is in the neighborhood of $1 million (not to mention the city actually paying part of the peanut vendors' salaries). Paulson pays about $1 million.

And who says anyone needs "to adequately fill" the stadium?

BTW, "LentsOK," that's your last post here until you tell us whether you are or aren't Mark Bunster.

If the Beavers relocate within the Portland area doesn't that prohibit another minor league team from relocating to the region and using PGE Park?

It depends on how you define the "region." Keizer is obviously far enough away that it's compatible with PGE Park.

This is good stuff you've presented here, Jack, & all. In these economic times, to go on with a non-competitive, no-bid contract is enough, by itself, to have Adams, Randy, et al., who "approved" it to be recalled and have the deal pre-empted. In more enlightened times they'd already've have been tarred & feathered and run out on a rail. They've been in chronic breach of their fiduciary duties, and they flaunt it with blatant contempt for the good people, the regular Joes and Janes, of Portland -- and their children and grandchildren....

The same goes for all of those city hall apparatchiks who spinelessly facilitate those scams -- planners, accountants, lawyers, spokespeople, etc.

The potential financing details were presented to City Council this afternoon.

$11.9 Million in Bonds. $11.2 million from the Spectator Facilities Fund.
$8 Million in cash from Paulson.
$11.1 Million in cash from Paulson as pre-paid rent for years 2018-2025.

Total cost $31 Million.

Cost overruns are city's responsibility for first $1 million. Any additional is Paulson's responsibility.

Contracts to be negotiated by Paulson and presented to City of Portland for approval.

Ballpark workers free to organize.

No URD funds at all.

The "pre-paid rent" is a cute ploy. He puts money down now, gets rent-free space later. This is another way of him lending the city money.

So basically, he pays $8 million, the city pays $34 million, all borrowed ($12 + 11 + 11 million).

What a racket!

"$11.2 million from the Spectator Facilities Fund."

Don't forget this was paying the existing $30M remaining from the PFE deal.

"Any additional is Paulson's responsibility"

This whole thing sounds like Randy's "Don't worry, Paulson will pay" refrain. So Paulson is taking on $65M in debt ($31M for PGE and $35M for the franchise) or $2.4M/yr (@ 6% and 30yrs) or $158K/game (@ 15 games/yr) and now we have no way to repay the $30M debt from PFE?

This whole thing is smoke-n-mirrors to get it to pass, it is stinking already. Not bad for a story made of whole cloth. Between Randy, Sam and MP I don't think they'd recognize truth if they stepped in a pile of it.

Jack... That would be $23 million. The $11.1 from the Spectator Facilities Fund is part of the $11.9 million.

Not to belittle your math skills Jack, but if the entire bill is $31 million and Paulson is paying $8 million of that and then loaning the city $11 million. That doesn't equal $34 million from the city. Paulson is fronting $19.1 million on top of the $35 million franchise fee and the City is on the hook for Bonds covered by the Spectator Facility Funds of $11.2 million and $700 thousand in soft money(aka reduction in planning and building code fees)

So Paulson:
$35 million - franchise fee
$8 million - cash
$11.1 million - future rent payments upfront

City :
$11.2 million - Bonds back by Spectator Facility Fund.
$700,000 - Discount on permit fees.

Yes the city will not be getting rent for years 8 through 25 during those years, but according to you the league will have folded by then. If the league is alive and kicking, the city will still be collecting a 7% ticket tax.

Ooops... That should read:

"The $11.2 from the Spectator Facilities Fund is part of the $11.9 million."

My post wasn't clear enough.

$11.9 million is the city's portion. Of the $11.9 million, $11.2 million are Spectator Facilities Fund Bonds. $0.7 million were not identified specifically.

So the $34 million figure is really $23 million. Sorry to mislead.

And a mistake on the pre-paid rent, it's for 2019-2036.

"$0.7 million were not identified specifically."

This is coming from cost savings in reducing the amount of periodic maintenance done on the Coliseum.

I'll have to wait to see the actual deal -- I was responding to the comment -- but the remodel budget numbers I've seen are between $36 million and $41 million. I see Paulson putting up $8 million of his own money. Everything else is city debt of one kind or another. "Total cost $31 million" makes no sense.

I loved the cablecast of the previous meeting in which our brainiac Council grilled the expert witness to verify that there is no possible way to configure PGE Park for both MLS AND other sports. Internationally acclaimed design, engineering and architecture expert Don Mazziotti swore to it on a stack of consulting contracts.

We need to revise the title of our fair city: The People's _Banana_ Republic of Portland.

I'll have to wait to see the actual deal -- I was responding to the comment -- but the remodel budget numbers I've seen are between $36 million and $41 million. I see Paulson putting up $8 million of his own money. Everything else is city debt of one kind or another. "Total cost $31 million" makes no sense.

$11.9 million + $11.1 million + $8 million = $31 million.

"The long-awaited deal scales back the proposed changes to PGE Park from what was previously envisioned by more than $6 million to fit within available funding sources."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/07/city_paulson_strike_deal_to_re.html

For now. We are still in the liars' budget stage.

Even if we are in the "Liar's Budget" phase as you so optimistically call it, the city would only be on the hook for $1 million in cost over runs. That means that if Paulson and his no-bid construction company spend $50 million on renovations. The city will not be on the hook for that extra $18 million and Paulson would have to come up with the extra money.

"the city would only be on the hook for $1 million in cost over runs."

Gee, that sounds as ironclad as the deal Gardiner/Glickman gave Vera with PFE and now look, we are stuck with $30M in debt.

I realize you want this stadium really bad, but its smoke and mirrors:

- $41M to $31M with cost savings (like CoP has ever done that)
- $11M for SFF that was supposed to pay the original $35M from PFE so now that comes out of the general fund
- Paulson's promise to pay every over runn is about as believable as his promise to create 300 living wage jobs.

Are you people that dumb not to see that this deal is being made up on the fly and is total versisfication to get a commit from the weak-minds in CoP? I mean the story changes byt the minute which means they are mking it up as they go.

Dear god, why doesn't Randy be honest and say something to the effect of"

"Hey, we're rolling the dice here with taxpayer money and we really don't know how it is going to be repaid"

1: Any venture that uses public dollars is a bad deal.

2: But this revised deal doesn't use public dollars.

1: This will never pan out financially.

2: Let me show you how it will pan out financially and put the city at virtually no risk.

1: Those numbers don't add up.

2: Yes, they do add up. Here's a detailed explanation.

1: Ah, don't bother me with your fancy "explanations." They're probably just lying.

Ad infintum...

the city would only be on the hook for $1 million in cost over runs

That's the concept that's being sold at the present, but the devil will be in the details. The city will wind up owning the facility, and will therefore be responsible for the safety and comfort of those attending events there. In that posture, it will be unable to insulate itself from all risk of unforeseen expense.

@Franz...
yeah and I'm the tooth fairy, Santa, and the Easter Bunny!
So sorry, I do not get your numbers, nor do I get how the Paulsons and co are going to be held accountable for any coat over runs or repayment of OUR tax money.

@ "...therefore be responsible for the safety and comfort of those attending events there."

Are you insinuating, Jack, that the Timbers attract a crowd that is more likely to cause injuries to other patrons than any other sporting event, or even any other public event? I know you're a big baseball fan -- I've been to dozens of Mets games in my life, and have attended baseball games in 2/3 of all the MLB stadiums in the country, and I have seen more fights and rowdy behavior at baseball games than I have ever seen at Timbers matches (and I have been to just about every home match the past 5 seasons). Honestly, I have probably seen as many fights and safety issues at Blazers games (half-season ticket holder for the past 4 years) as I have as Timbers matches, which is to say - not any. And let's not even talk about NHL or NFl crowds. In other words, safety is an inherent risk at every public event, and I'm sure the ownership and the City will ensure proper precautions are taken to protect visitors and to protect their financial investment in the facility.

sorry, my "not any" should read "not many."

Jack states: "The Beavers and Timbers are not coming anywhere near paying off 'paying off the renovation' now".

Does that mean that Mayor Katz and Sam, her senior adviser, that negotiated the past renovation deal with Portland Family Entertainment with the then Beavers and Timbers knowingly knew that PFE couldn't pay back the city? The same teams and other parties that helped pay the renovation debt then, are the same teams as today.

If the past debt can't be paid off, then why add another $40 Million if only soccer remains or $80 million if two facilities are made-all with the same or similar contributing parties?

Rich, I think you're missing my point. As owner, the city is liable for safety issues and many others. And so if Paulson's hand-picked architect and contractor skimp on fire safety items or disabled access, the city will have to fix the problems. Will the final contracts that Sam-Rand sign off on effectively shift that risk to Paulson? I know, the two of them are such gifted dealmakers, but still, one worries.

And what exactly was the city on the hook for at the beginning of the tram debacle? And what was the final amount the city sunk into the tram? I know these things do happen but far too often and with a high percentage of error in original estimates

I love the spectacle of three people energetically pushing a catastrophe on an unwilling population. Reminds me of the Bush years. Good times, good times.

Jack, permitting and site inspections are covered by the City's own processes. If the City's inspectors fail in doing their due diligence, how is it MP's or Peregrine's issue?

There is nothing different in this case than in any other major building project in the city. The fact that the structure will remain a public facility should mean the City will pay particular attention to its responsibilities to the public.

The devil is in the details. It all depends on what's in the contracts. Is the city capable of making sure that Paulson is truly responsible for all additional capital costs beyond the current blatantly lying $31 million budget? Forgive me, but having watched the city screw this up time and again, for many years, I'm not confident.

ep - who says this is "pushing a catastrophe on an unwilling population?" what makes you think the population is unwilling? over 16K turned up for a soccer match that was only scheduled 2 weeks beforehand -- does that seem "unwilling" to you, in this town, in this economy? I know this blog is filled with a few dozen NIMBYs and others who are against the deal, but what about the City-organized Task Force (unanimously in favor) or the attendance at each and every Commission meeting (9:1 in favor)?

Put it to a vote. Double dare you.