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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on May 23, 2009 10:24 AM. The previous post in this blog was Move the Beavers to Lents? How 1950's.. The next post in this blog is Memorial Day weekend, 2009. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.



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Saturday, May 23, 2009

Two birds, one stone

Comments (24)

I like it. As long as the Feds pay the rack rate and we don't let anybody from Community Corrections serve them methadone with their tea.

That $1.1 million worth of public art has gone unnoticed for too long.

Bonus: they speak Klingon!

Sure, why not? This state needs the money.

The discussion about Gitmo in the media is insanely juvenile and naive. I keep hearing senators say they don't want these prisoners in their back yards. Do these terrorist suspects pack some sort of superhuman strength or radioactive quality that provides a means to break out of a high-security prison? And if keeping them imprisoned stateside isn't an option, don't we have other military bases around the globe?

And what the hell do we need Guantanamo for anyway? It's not our island, and we sanction its existence... It's Cuba's, for gods sake, give it back. We can "protect" the Caribbean from the cozy confines of mainland Florida... what, a couple hundred miles away?

We all have made it a hobby to gripe about government spending, but the most bloated pig at the collective teat, our military industrial complex, is somehow a sacred cow. Anyone who dares ask to scale it back is accused of not keeping the country safe. At some point (now, perhaps?) we'll need to put our money where our mouth is.

I was surprised recently to see Gates defend the move of terrorists to super-max facilities in the US. He said there had never been an escape from one of those facilities and described those opposing such a move as fear mongers.

Earth to's not that they will escape, it is the concern about influencing other inmates currently in the system. Note the four accused conspirators just arrested in NY, a few of whom were recent graduates of the state prison system.

OK, even if that is not a good enough reason to keep these creeps at Gitmo, Wapato is the last place the feds will ever use. The restrictions and regulations signed over to the neighborhood by Mult Co would likely prevent housing a mischievous pet there.

" is the concern about influencing other inmates currently in the system."

That's another talking point bandied about by pols. But really, isn't this problem easily solved by keeping them separate? It would be cheaper than keeping a military base open...

"Note the four accused conspirators just arrested in NY, a few of whom were recent graduates of the state prisonon system."

Isn't one out of every 20 males between 18-25 years old a graduate of a state or federal penitentiary?

Besides I don't see why some goat herder who was in the wrong place at the wrong time needs to exposed to our prison system. Realistically its probably safer for them in Gitmo.

If you want to see a real *turrurist* look in the mirror, Gibby.

Don't we already have 50 +/- of them in the supermax in CO?


Multnomah County is the second to last place they would try to relocate GITMO prisoners (next door to Senator Feinstein's home in California is the last). Wapato's neighborhood agreements could be renegotiated, but the NIMBY opposition to Supermax would be insurmountable and the correctional officer's union would be bouncing off the walls unless they were guaranteed first crack at the new jobs.

Supermax facilities are designed to preclude all contact with other prisoners. They have limited contact with prison staff, and (from what I've read) are only permitted one hour/day outside their cell (if at all).

Wapato was designed as a drug treatment facility/medium security prison with lots of common areas. It would be cheaper to build a new Supermax facility than try and convert Wapato.

That said, there are plenty of drug addicts committing assaults, robberies, i.d. thefts, and drug crimes that would be most comfortable in Wapato. If Ted Wheeler ever finds a way to fund it.

If he can't, he should sell/lease it to a private prison operator who can fill it up with contract prisoners. A rustbelt state eager for construction spending and federal wages/pensions would be the more likely recipient if a new facility is needed. I would guess Michigan, Ohio, or Pennsylvania.

"Supermax facilities are designed to preclude all contact with other prisoners. They have limited contact with prison staff, and (from what I've read) are only permitted one hour/day outside their cell (if at all)."

And this is more humane treatment than they are receiving at GITMO how?!

Good question, Butch! There's a strong argument that solitary confinement in a Supermax prison is torture. There just isn't a satisfactory solution to the problem that was created with these detentions.

Hey, they're suicide bombers right. So just pack em full of c4 & send em back to their comrades. Sheesh - problem solved.
Oh, yeah, I forgot, you know those drone pilots workin the airways from their beach cabanas in Diego? They just hit Craigs List with employment ads for "Chief Remote Detonators", must have wii experience.
Unrelated - Mello scores 36- over/under. Go Nuggets.

Allan has a point,

The Unabomber (Theodore John Kaczynski), the Oklahoma City bomber (Terry Nichols), and the 20th Hijacker (Zacarias Moussaoui) are all Supermax Prisoners.

The former bosses of the Mexican and Columbian drug cartels, the Aryan Brotherhood, Nuestra Familia, a few mafiosos, plus assorted serial killers, terrorists, hijackers, ans Sr. Javier Vásquez Velasco (who tortured/murdered DEA Agent Kiki Camarena).

It would be a crying shame if these inmates couldn't get a decent burger, play some volleyball, and hug their families during visiting hours. Many of them even maintain their innocence. No reason to think they're not telling the truth: certainly they shouldn't be tortured by living in isolation.


I dunno, I dont think the NIMBY people are worried about these guys escaping. I think they are more worried about their buddies coming to rescue them. And I am not all that confident that a bunch of prison guards will be able to keep that from happening. And lets face, we all know that they can get into the country undetected.

Arent there a few "private" prisons? Maybe send them there. And dont some of the conspiracy folks rant about these "FEMA" prisons hidden somewhere in the midwest? If those exist, maybe send them there.

Leave GITMO open....then send about 1/2 of those jokers in Washington DC there for some time to reflect on what they have done to this country. Let them out in a year and then send the other half of them there.

It would be a crying shame if these inmates couldn't get a decent burger, play some volleyball, and hug their families during visiting hours.

I agree. let's not be better than them--let's be *worse* than them.

because after all, society only becomes better by living and acting as its worst members. so, whatever mass murderers and terrorists do, we should do. only then will crime be deterred.


I mean, look at how waterboarding has made us safer in the world. case in point.

or invading Afghanistan--just look at how much crime, terrorism, and murder have gone down in the past seven years. it's wonderful.

It isn't about NIMBY or security.
Its about allowing activist judges have a crack at them.
As soon as they are on US soil the Fed Gov looses control.

Loses. Loses control.

The activist judges know how to spell. Work on it.

At least it is phoenetically correct: loo-sez. It is also one of the most common misspellings in English.


I believe you may judge a society on how it treats the most vulnerable members of that society.

But the SuperMax Prisoners are not the most vulnerable, they are the most dangerous. If you are going to oppose the death penalty, then you need a way to supervise these most dangerous inmates without putting their jailor's lives in jeopardy and while minimizing the opportunity for escape. SuperMax (while arguably inhumane) achieves both objectives.

I heartily endorse waterboarding for the three guys who endured it: too bad they survived.

"I heartily endorse waterboarding for the three guys who endured it: too bad they survived."

Actually two of those three guys was released because it turns out they really were a carpet salesman and personal fitness coach respectively.

was = were

"Actually two of those three guys were released because it turns out..."

Citation please.

Its about allowing activist judges have a crack at them.

I know, right? like that new conservative chief justice, basically saying he wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. talk about activist judge! And here I thought he was supposed to be impartial. stupid activist judge.

As soon as they are on US soil the Fed Gov looses control.

I know, right? I mean, who the heck wants to have to endure the US justice system! And its conservative activist judges!

You have blood on your hands, Mr. Tee.

"Out, damn'd spot! out, I say! One, two, why, then
'tis time to do't. Hell is murky."

Yuan wrote,

"Actually two of those three guys was released because it turns out they really were a carpet salesman and personal fitness coach respectively."

Which sounds like something Jeanne Garofolo told Larry King. But hearing Jeanne Garofolo say it doesn't make it so.

I reiterate: if Yuan believes that an innocent carpet salesman and a personal fitness coach were waterboarded by the CIA, then he needs to provide a citation or reference to substantiate his claim.

Otherwise, the reader may assume he's making it up.

Step aside Montana


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