I'm for the recall, and they just lost me as a supporter.

So far, four friends ("liberals" all) agree--if this is what they're offering, we're not offering any time or money to this particular recall group.

echo to what echohuman said.

What are the recall people thinking?

Yep. As soon as I heard Victoria grab hold of it, I thought the exact same thing. As long as she and her crowd are around mucking things up and spouting Norquistisms, the whole project is doomed.

What would really send things over the top would be ads voiced by Gregg Clapper. Then we'd be on to something.

I'd say that unless somebody from the left or center with political smarts and money steps up pretty soon, the recall will be a train wreck. Even an indictment from Kroger won't overcome the Victoria factor.

If Gloria will admit that she is gay, things might go OK.

Sorry, Victoria not Gloria

Jack, you are so right about this. Victoria Taft is one of the folks who shows up at city council meetings to give Sam a ritual tongue-lashing. Even though I would like to see Sam gone, I can't listen to the nasty, vitriolic stuff that comes out of her mouth. She is a turnoff.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

Hi All,

CNN will be there as well... personally I like MSNBC better. It is the media's right to show up at events and report them. Freedom of speech and the media is vital for our Democracy.

I do ask that you judge the Recall based on our message of running a positive campaign focused on Sam Adams' civic transgressions.

In order to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions we all need to work together.

RecallSamAdams.com
Jasun Wurster

So, if I understand the point, you think Portlanders would rather keep Adams as mayor than be involved in an effort to recall him that includes supporters that aren't ideologically acceptable. You know what, you're probably right. Ideology is more important in this town than integrity or competence. That's why one party towns like Portland are so messed up and corrupt.

In politics, being right doesn't matter as much as playing smart. So far, the recall folks seem naive in the extreme.

The fix is already in. Kroger will release the results of the investigation at the most opportune time to help Sam.

Keep Portland Corrupt!

In order to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions we all need to work together.

...by featuring a right-wing radio commentator who uses her show as a platform for dividing, labeling, and condemning all things "liberal" and not like her.

Original Bob W's insight is the most compelling. Ideology dominates Portland rather than integrity or competence---or common sense I'll add.

>>>you think Portlanders would rather keep Adams as mayor than be involved in an effort to recall him that includes supporters that aren't ideologically acceptable.>>>

I think the issue is that with high-profile Right-wing support the recall appears to become a contest between Imperfect Sam, who at least used to have widely-supported policy ideas, and a political faction whose policy ideas are completely antithetical to what most Portlanders want. I'd rather have Imperfect Sam remain in office than give it over to someone who detests what I believe in and like about Portland. Call it ideology if you want. I call it a choice between an imperfect candidate and a political coalition I disagree with at fundamental levels. Don't tell us you'd have supported a campaign run by a liberal candidate after a serious lapse by a conservative...

I can't believe you guys. You'd let a guy destroy this great city just because of partisan politics? I don't care if Karl Marx was running the recall drive, this libertarian would still be there supporting it.

On one very popular website I own, our purpose is to support, promote, expand, and preserve firearm rights in the Northwest. I don't care what else you believe in, as long as you agree with us there, even partially, we consider you on 'our side'.

Like my website, this recall has one purpose, to get Sam Adams out of office. You're really telling me that due to viewpoints on other things completely unrelated to this one purpose, you're not willing to work together with someone to achieve your common goal? How petty. You guys really need to get over your selves. We need this man out of office.

Wow... As one who was very disappointed in the whole Sam debacle, I find these "I Hate Liberal Portland" comments quite disturbing... You've convinced me. The conservative message of anger, hate and division isn't worth even remotely supporting. The recall has lost my vote... Good job, guys! Keep up the Good Work of turning the Recall into a "I Hate Portland" referendum...

"In order to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions we all need to work together."

I will never, ever work "together" with the likes of Victoria Taft. Good try Wurster, but you just lost a good portion of your recall base.

The truth is most of the Schwinn bikers dont even vote..they TALK. This Mayor is major garbage now matter how you slice it. If he worked at a Kinkos let alone IBM, he would of been GONE right away. This guy has lied lied lied....CORRUPTION....and more. The sex thing is at the end of the list at this point. Why can't Victoria Taft have her say in the matter. You won't be hearing the TRUTH on KPOJ...I can tell you that.
As soon as the AG dumps the goods on the Mercury reporter now working for the ass..its game over anyway.

And here I thought the progressives and liberals were all about subverting the dominant paradigm! If you don't like the right being in charge of the recall campaign, instead of staying home why not try to take it over? Overwhelm them with numbers (can't be that hard in this town) and boot them out of all decision-making positions.

I'd rather have Imperfect Sam remain in office than give it over to someone who detests what I believe in and like about Portland.

I'd understand that position if there were even a 1% chance that a conservative would win an election in Portland, but we both know that's not going to happen. I can't think of anyone worse than Sam Adams, so I'd rather have just about anyone. If you're a Democrat, fine, spend the tax dollars on programs and whatever else, but don't give it out to developers while trying to build your legacy. If you're a conservative, fine, lower taxes and whatever else. Sam Adams is somewhere off to the side of both of those ideologies, very similar to Bush (though most of you are too partisan to recognize that). I'd rather have Steve Novick or one of your other liberal heroes in there than this guy, even if they're more liberal.

I will never, ever work "together" with the likes of Victoria Taft. Good try Wurster, but you just lost a good portion of your recall base.

If that's your attitude, it looks like you guys are going to be keeping the mayor you deserve.

who at least used to have widely-supported policy ideas

I disagree. what he's mostly had, I think, is a lot of support from politicos and money people (developers, funders, etc). he's famous for carefully crafting pop culture messages to capture the popular sentiment, though.

and a political faction whose policy ideas are completely antithetical to what most Portlanders want.

I think there's a growing sense that that description fits Adams' ideas.

If you don't like the right being in charge of the recall campaign, instead of staying home why not try to take it over?

you've captured the fundamental mistake: considering this *the* recall campaign, rather than just *a* recall campaign.

In politics, being right doesn't matter as much as playing smart. So far, the recall folks seem naive in the extreme.

Ding!

Politics is perception.

Victoria Taft has testified, on her own time, every Wednesday morning at City Council meetings, directly requesting, to his face, that Sam Adams resign. What have you done lately to insure that we successfully recall this shameful, lying mayor?

>>>>I'd understand that position if there were even a 1% chance that a conservative would win an election in Portland, but we both know that's not going to happen.>>>>

The discussions on this board of Sam's misdeeds can't get past the dripping snideness about Portland Liberals. There's plenty about Sam's actions to go off about - justifiably so. But I don't want any part of supporting an electoral cause that immediately turns into an attack of what I support. I don't think I'm the one making a recall of Sam, or not, a universal indictment of an any political group.

You recallers should pick your issue. Is it Sam's misdeeds or Idiot Portland Liberals?

OK, everyone please take a deep breath. Pull it together, and get back on task. Taft is just an annoying little mosquito buzzing around our heads. Don't let her take the wheel. Make your voices heard with the logical, detailed and legal argument that this recall is based on. Focus on Adams trail of misdeeds and public lies, not his party affiliation or who is liberal and who is conservative. The only way Taft is going to hijack the movement is if we let her. Step up the game folks and stay the course.

Does anyone think KPOJ will hop on the recall train?

I am also getting the impression that the recall campaign is just a vehicle for conservatives looking to replace a liberal mayor with a conservative one. If that's the case, I'll hold my nose and vote for Sam to stay. The conservatives (or right-wingers or whoever they are) are the ones who are injecting ideology into the recall campaign, not the liberals.

Pdx Mark,
Sorry, but your rhetorical sleight of hand isn't working. You start by talking about how this appears to be - not how it is. Yes, this would appear to have a right wing image if certain people latch onto it. That's why Victoria isn't helping.

Then you make the leap from that to "If Sam goes, we'll have a right wing mayor."

Then you finish by saying you'd rather have Imperfect Sam than a right wing mayor.

I think you know Sam won't be recalled if this is just a conservative thing. You also have to know that if the mayor's office is open, the next mayor will probably be a progressive in this city. So what you have done amounts to trying to frighten progressives away from a recall through spin. Not even good spin.

It is deceptive to portray this as Imperfect Mayor vs. Right Wing Coalition Mayor.

Think of this as "Loser Progressive" being recalled and replaced by "Winner Progressive". I think that's closer to what would happen if the recall works.

I admit calling Sam a "Loser Progressive" is a little misleading and unfair. Sam is not in the progressive movement. He is in the Sam Adams movement. He belongs to a party of one called the Sam Adams party.

He manipulate progressives while he serves the power elite. And the reason he does that is because he's working for a constituency of one -
Sam Adams.

manipulate(s)...sorry.

Why didn't they have it at the Car Toys where Creepy showed off his leadership style?

These are the moments that remind me why we should just do away with the party system altogether. We're always pitted against each other, one group or demographic against another unknown. Democrat vs Republican, urban vs rural, socialist vs fascist. Painted to the extremes, but it rarely ever reflects reality. And we can't bring ourselves to cross these lines anyway.

I grew up outside of Portland, I love it here... the city, the WHOLE state. There are plenty of people like me on the left who tire of both the idiots who represent Portland and the jerks on the outskirts who want to see the city fail (for financial benefit?). We need some adults in office that represent all of us who don't fit into tidy boxes for media simplicity. People that understand it's hurting Oregon to segregate and pit us against each other.

Can we just get some f*$#ing PRAGMATISM in politics? Just enough to bring everyone together to purge the problems from office? It doesn't matter what you subscribe to, it's embarrassing to keep people like Sam Adams in office.

Eco, Jimbo, et al:

I gotta say I really don't understand your beef. First off, I AGREE that having Taft there may not be the smartest move. I concede your argument that if this becomes a conservatives vs. progressives issue then it's doomed. So we're in agreement there.

But haven't you said in the past that we have Creepy because we (the electorate) got what we deserved? Haven't we all complained about the many bad, financially ruinous decisions that Creepy is making?

If so, I just can't understand how those concerns somehow play second fiddle to your hatred of Taft. Not recalling Creepy, when you believe he deserves to go, ONLY because of the involvement of 1 radio personality is crazy to me.

On another note, I'm not a huge fan, either, but I do give Taft and Larson credit as the only 2 TV or radio personalities in this market that ever at least attempt to hold some peoples' feet to the fire. I don't always agree with their positions, but do you see anyone else in the major media who questions city hall decisions? They've both testified at city hall vs. Creepy as well, to their credit.

Mr Bog is right, this will be a bigdistraction. I really think finding someone who offers an alternative to Adams is the key to making this thing happen.

If no one credible steps up, I don't think he'll get enough to even push a recall.

Victoria, Lars and their ilk have been hurting this effort since the get go. When Lars was ranting on his show after this story first broke he was playing "Where the Boys Are" and "Lollipop" during his return from break intros. Victoria did much the same.

Everytime Victoria has sat before the city council and said "sex with a teenager" she has hurt this effort.

You have to remember something. These radio folks don't really want Adams gone. He is great grist for the mill. They just want to grandstand and try to call attention to themselves.

After this event all the right wing ranters will get noisier and noisier and they will sour this recall effort, which didn't have much of a chance to begin with.

As far as Wurster is concerned, he clearly has future political ambitions and is simply working on name familiarity.

Anyway, it's moot. Without paid signature gatherers and some deep pockets behind this thing there is no way they will turn in enough signatures.

I seriously doubt that anyone left of center would be elected to replace the mayor, regardless of whose is leading the recall campaign.

Having said that, I'm waiting for someone (Bob Ball, perhaps?) to step up from the "liberal" or "progressive" or "insert acceptable ideology here" movement to lead the recall effort and assure people that it isn't about R's versus D's.

you've captured the fundamental mistake: considering this *the* recall campaign, rather than just *a* recall campaign.

No, he's right. Its "the" recall. There wont be another. Radical ideology and the lack of the stones to push it through will keep any other recall attempts from happening.

I've heard Victoria Taft laying into Sam during the public comment part of city council meetings. Some of what comes out of her mouth is just plain verbal abuse in my opinion. And the recall campaign people want to put her on CNN? I'd like to know who arranged that and how they think airing Portland's dirty laundry in the national media will benefit the city?

Victoria Taft has testified, on her own time, every Wednesday morning at City Council meetings, directly requesting, to his face, that Sam Adams resign.

The problem is that her appearance is only treated as "more of the same" and "hatred" from the right. Just like what has been posted here. What we need is someone from the "progressives" of the city to come out publicly and have an active role in getting him to resign or be forced out.

Victoria Taft is one of the folks who shows up at city council meetings to give Sam a ritual tongue-lashing.

Ooh, sounds kinky.

on her own time

That's rich.

Although a recall is not an election, it is quickly becoming much like an election in the ideological heat it is generating. It remains different from an election because it is an effort to create a void in leadership: a hole where the mayor used to be.

But voters are extremely uncomfortable with political voids. Most of us prefer the scoundrel we think we know to the possibility of a scoundrel about whom we know nothing.

A recall would have a greater chance of success were there an actual candidate or candidates available to fill the void. Portland voters have shown that they can line up behind an unlikely candidate -- Tom Potter, Bud Clark -- who appears to be for Portland citizens rather than for certain political factions or economic interests. Our mayor and council are, after all, officially non-partisan. We need, therefore, a non-partisan recall.

Mr Wurster's comment above suggests that his recall action is intended to be non-partisan. But response to the mere presence of Ms Taft appears to be enough to convince some to reconsider their dissatisfaction with Mr Adams's performance and their fears about the future of Portland if he remains our mayor. Political divisions are so profound that they threaten the very recall for which occupants of all camps long.

Those who find Ms Taft's live broadcast objectionable should remember that the 1st Amendment has not been repealed. The goal is to remove the far more objectionable mayor and to fill the void with someone better able to serve the people of Portland.

Despite all the rhetoric from Mr Adams's political allies and sycophants, it is impossible to believe that he is the only being resident in this city who is qualified for the office. Yet possible candidates mentioned in previous threads all already have jobs; none has publicly expressed a desire to fill the void created by a successful recall. The assertion that candidates will emerge if a void is created remains unconvincing.

Clearly, it is not easy to recall a mayor, but it is not impossible. Other cities have done it; the town of Union (pop. about 2K) seems to do so on a regular basis. We should not be so quick to condemn this recall effort. I cannot imagine that anyone will not be offended by something that someone else will say about why Mr Adams should no longer be mayor. We must remember always, however, that Mr Adams should no longer be the mayor of Portland.

I see it now, if the recall fails the lefty's are going to blame the right. Easy excuse. The right has nothing to do with this passing or failing. The right didn't vote this guy in, the left did. Step up to plate left and be held accountable.

The recall effort must be solely about the merits of the recall, and NOT about partisan garbage.

"The recall effort must be solely about the merits of the recall, and NOT about partisan garbage."

Too late, I think.

Ding!

Politics is perception.

that's probably the best (and most accurate) comment on this thread so far.

Again we see Sam supporters deflect the primary issue, the unethical, lying behaviors of Sam, by attacking others trying to seek honesty and integrity in his office. Have standards become so low and political divisions so great that residents would actually prefer the public corruption and self-serving politics? Is it any wonder why our city is in its current state of embarrassment? What kind of example is Sam to lead this city and model for our young people?

I couldn't care less what color their stripes....if they are outraged about mayor SamBeaux, then they're on the team....let 'em speak, put 'em to work....throw the bum out!

Let's quit this dithering and get the job done.

TKrueg, I think you hit the nail on the head. The two-party system has created a naive duality that has effectively infantilized political discourse in this country. And in all honesty, I don't think a third party would even be an adequate solution in the long run--I find myself having some point of major disagreement with just about every major and minor party's platform.

Taft is obviously a polarizing figure, and any such folks on either side of the political spectrum are not what the recall effort needs. It will create a distraction (and apparently, already has to an extent) which will derail the whole thing. There only needs to be one polarizing figure in this whole thing--Sam Adams himself.

Yeh, the recall "campaign" is showing itself. Victoria Taft as featured guest at their big opening event. Plus a campaign ad which violated Disney copyright and riffed on a notoriously racist movie (they ripped off "Zip a Dee Doo Dah" from Disney's Song of the South, until they were called on it, after which they changed the tune on YouTube, though it doesn't change where their head was at in making it.)

Right-wing amateurs, p***ed off because a gay guy got l**d, and didn't feel like talking about it (quelle surprise).

I am also getting the impression that the recall campaign is just a vehicle for conservatives looking to replace a liberal mayor with a conservative one.

Ted Wheeler, scion of wealthy local Republicans, is already grooming himself.

You missed the parts about wrongfully calling his accuser a homophobe and stealing an election, and the fact that his sex partner, including in the City Hall bathroom, was barely legal or not at all.

This is actually fantastic news to the seven of us remaining members of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If Victoria Taft says she's for something, apparantly a lot of you will automatically be against it. We've asked her to change her show format to a nightly Lovefest to Obama.

Like it or not, if Victoria's for it, many, many Portlanders are automatically against it.

Folks PLEASE STOP SPLITTING POLITICAL HAIRS
OVER WHO IS SHOWING UP TO RECALL MAYOR CREEPY. Face it folks - he's damaged goods and a total embarassment to Portland. This City deserves better than this self-serving LIAR; and the sooner he's gone the better FOR EVERYONE - regardless of your political stripes.
And let's be clear - whomever runs to replace him will likely be a liberal/progressive no matter what. Geez folks - get a grip! SAM IS TOXIC! Got that? HE'S BAD NEWS EVERY DAY!

Caps lock -- another turnoff.

"Why didn't they have it at the Car Toys where Creepy showed off his leadership style?"

Because Car Toys doesn't have yummy Coney Island chili dogs.....

This is actually fantastic news to the seven of us remaining members of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If Victoria Taft says she's for something, apparantly a lot of you will automatically be against it.

you're using the same logic that Adams supports have used: "this must be about X, so get over it".

here it is, plain and simple: bringing in vocal heavyweights from any extreme turns off (and turns away, really) the rest of the people.

in other words: Taft being a highly visible figurehead for the recall effort damages its credibility both to those that either aren't extreme like Taft, and to those that have been claiming all along this is a just a "right-wing" hangup about sex and morals.

the recall voices are going to be dominated by people like Taft and Larson--both of whom regularly spend much of their professional lives trying to tear down, judge, and ridicule groups they don't like.

given that, guess what kind of people will rally around them in common cause?

If people like Taft make the recall effort look as if it's about Adams being gay as opposed to having lied to the public, acted unethically, possibly broke the law, etc., the campaign's going to fail. Most of the city's not going to follow the lead of a bunch of whooping homophobes, if that's what it starts to look like.

And frankly, the campaign so far hasn't inspired a lot of confidence in their capabilities. It looks amateurish, the video is lame (even for something produced by a "voulnteer" [sic] media team), and it's just unprofessional. Why would anyone on the fence trust these guys on Adams?

60 comments and many more to come.

I do believe that the presence of fringe players such as Victoria Taft presents the ultimate distraction.

Sam may be creepy but he is incredibly keen on political smoke-and-mirrors. He will use Victoria Taft and other conservative commentators to paint the "Recall Sam Adams" campaign as a trojan horse for a right wing coup de'tat for the Mayor's office.

If the "right wing coup de'tat" theory gains leverage in the local media, then the "Recall Sam Adams" effort will fail.

Jasun Wurster and those who support the effort are in the process of being subverted by right wing ideologues who could care less about Portland, but would use this as an issue to say "Look at those liberals who would rather keep a child molester in office...blah blah blah" in order to justify their fringe values and policies to gain some ounce of momentum for the 2010 election.

Looks like Jason needs to hire a clever political consultant. I'll bet Mark Weiner would throw in a few hours since Sam probably won't be hiring him again.

On another note. The Portland Mercury has a nifty little story about our "Green" mayor (then a councilman) begging Mayor Potter to let him take a private jet for a junket to see the Cordish Development work in Kansas City.

"Jasun Wurster ... in the process of being subverted by right wing ideologues." -- But he called them to get all that 'free' airtime ... they 'own.'

---
Victoria Daft and Liars Larson and Rash Lamebrain are interchangeable -- anger-schtick, cross-addressing, anti-social haters. You hear one and you've heard them all. Same 'hate-talking points,' different AM/FM frequencies.

I don't monitor Victoria. This website monitors Lamebrain. I monitor Liars, and related to the discussion here I can add that Liars recognizes (and so tacitly admits) his pout-lippy promotion delivers the Judas-kiss of political death when he says "recall Adams." So today he is totally silent about where Victoria is going. Although Liars previously gave the spokesman for The Recall Radicals about 60 minutes cumulative ($10,000) of 'free' airtime. (Which came from skimming a few (advertising) pennies out of each dollar We, the People spent at his sponsors -- 'free' means they pass along the cost to customers.) Today -- too late -- Liars sees his hate-talk has paralyzed and incapacitated his political 'constituency' shot full of prevarication poison.

Some comment (above) said KPOJ would not air the recall bandwagon. (BTW, Randi Rhodes is back on-air, KPOJ, and Larson's KXL is shrinking, shrunken, sunk .. bubble, glub, b'-bye.) Fact is, local voices Carl Wolfson and Christine Alexander on (6: - 9: am) The Morning Show already did call for Adams resignation. And aired callers on both sides of the Adams question. And then moved it to lower priority ... beneath Progressives' highest priority of talking about prosecuting war criminals and standing up for equality under the law. Justice trickles down -- a cleaner Federal, begets a cleaner State, begets a cleaner City. Effectiveness per Stephen Covey: Do the biggest things first.

First help me imprison Cheney and then I'll work on the Adams recall ... just not right now, I'm busy with bigger fish to fry than Portland's mayor.

I wonder how many anti-Adams voices here today, 'hair on fire' for his immoral deliquencies with a minor, were the same voices which earlier stayed silent (or shouted uninformed denials) about Sarah Palin's under-age pregnant daughter disqualifying the State of Alaska's Governor from standing for election as a paragon of America's moral best.

I wonder how many anti-Adams voices here today, kept silent (or shouted uninformed denials) about Bu/Chen's liars-'war' crimes and the evident millions of murdered and maimed souls destroyed by their lies.

Daft and Liars and Lamebrain, (O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Coulter, Kristol, Krauthammer, Liddy, North, ... you know the others), all shout "no Adams, (Blagoyevich, Spitzer, Gov. Davis (remember? pre-Schwartznegger), Edwards, Sheehan," and more, but "keep McIntire, Sizemore, Mannix, Abramoff, Abrams, B-1 Bob Dornan, Gordon Smith, Vitter, Craig, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Blair, Sarkozy, Berlusconi, Netanyahu, Calderon," and more), and the empty-minded hate-thrill seekers, enraptured by hot radio adrenaline, never seemed to get it that the anti-social 'NO' Party is the MINORITY of humankind, it only plays a 'moral majority' in one-way loudmouth broadcasting.

When negative broadcasting doesn't have a vacant elected office to sell political advertising time for, to inflame a faux 'conflict' -- fight! fight! left, right: fight! sensation! drama! leading blood and splatter bones! fight! -- without that, then it ain't got nothin' ... and No Sales is another word for Out Of Business.

"Those who find Ms Taft's live broadcast objectionable should remember that the 1st Amendment has not been repealed."

Within the constraints of Constitutional law, tort law, FCC regulations and radio station guidelines, she can say whatever she wants on the radio. Nobody has to tune in. But when I attend or watch a city council meeting, I don't care to listen to people being verbally abused, the mayor or anyone else for that matter.

A Hopeful . . . you don't have to attend either. Just sayin'.

Try this: Broadcasting is what Adams used to tell his lies in the first place.

Ban paid-broadcast political advertising, (like we ban paid-broadcast cigarette advertising), and then we'd get our political information from print, and newspapers, like Willamette Week.

Which could have stopped Adams in the first place.

A recall election is for one purpose: to remove a specific person from office. It is not tied to an ideology. The replacement election is a separate thing. So many of these posts sound as if having a right-wing radio personality involved in generating votes to remove someone automatically means a right-winger will replace him. No, it doesn't work that way. There will be a special election, separate from the recall action.

However, no one has mentioned the one thing that worries me most about recalling Sam: there will be an opening that Randy Leonard will assume is his to fill. Now, THAT might keep me from removing Sam! If someone who is not beholden to Merritt Paulson (among others) could emerge BEFORE the recall vote, so that we would have an alternative to Randy, it would help the effort considerably.

Frump,

I do believe that the fringe players (right-wing) do see the recall campaign as an opening to field Republican candidates for the office.

Yes, there is the "moral" side of the story and they will argue until they are blue in the face, that it is the only reason why they are involved in the first place. However, we all know that they aspire to more.

Some aspirations are to try and warm Portland, OR to Republican ideas via the involvement with the recall effort. Other and more important aspirations are to try and use this to energize the Republican base for the 2010 election.

This is how I see it and the recall effort will fail if Republicans are attached to the recall effort.

This is Portland, OR we are talking about where there is no GOP office in Multnomah County and the closest place a Republican has been elected is in Gresham.

heh, heh, heh...

sad, but predictable...

i imagine Sam is chuckling, too.

eco, look in the mirror:

the recall voices are going to be dominated by people like Taft and Larson--both of whom regularly spend much of their professional lives trying to tear down, judge, and ridicule groups they don't like.

sounds like home to me - minus the "professional", of course - not that i'm implying there's any of that going on around here.

ps: no caps were used in the "penning" of this comment...

(any caps are the exclusive fault of those quotated - apologies to arlo)

...the waste of caps is probably causing global warming, errr, global climate change.

ecohuman, indeed.

perspective is pretty thin on the ground around here - looks like ego-protection takes priority over common sense.

to coin a phrase: Quelle surprise!

redundance - don't leave home without it...

...again.

pps: McDonald - stop making sense!

Typo: No GOP office in Portland, OR. (Not Multnomah County).

Yes, there is the "moral" side of the story and they will argue until they are blue in the face, that it is the only reason why they are involved in the first place. However, we all know that they aspire to more.

We don't ALL know that, batboy.

More Kool-Aid for your straw man?

You've come to the right stand.

If this is all there is to the recall leadership, it has (excuse me) NO CHANCE. I got there at 5:50p. jason was on with vic, (who needs major work) and I couldn't determine if the kick out party was in booth 4, 5, or 6. No meet & greet. No sign up and no where to donate? I thought the call went out to show up at 5:30p. It wasn't worth missing the first half of celtics/magic.

Recall first

Election second

The NRA guy was right. I will work with anyone to get him out of office. We can fight ideology during the election

daveg, agreed that few political events are worth missing half of a Cs second-round sixth game, but the O reports the scene at Nick's this evening somewhat differently:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/group_calls_for_sam_adams_reca.html

No mention of Ms Taft.

After opening strongly, the Cs showed fatigue during the second quarter and closed only a point up. ORL's reversal of Tuesday's finish has provided us with yet another 7th game in the Garden after a couple of days' rest. Perhaps Mr Adams and his entourage will delay their return until after Sunday.

Jack - I may not always agree with Victoria, but I agree with her about Sam's lying and unethical behaviors. I don't have to be "left" or "right" to know that Sam has been self-serving and cares more about himself than he does the residents of Portland. I give credit to Victoria because she is willing to support her convictions with action. Words are easy, and I have only seen words from you. Where is the action to support your convictions, or do you remain a Sam supporter?

I support the recall of Sam Adams. I've pointed out his foibles louder and longer than anyone, including Victoria Taft.

I also want the recall to succeed. What I pointed out here, quite correctly, is that making it a right-winger campfire circle guarantees failure. Don't kill the messenger.

I'm sure Ms. Taft got paid tonight for doing her job. I was busy doing mine.

"A Hopeful . . . you don't have to attend either. Just sayin'."

Maybe people should not be allowed to monopolize the public comment part of city council meetings by signing up to speak every week. Other people might want to address the council on other issues.

And city councils across the country have specific rules of conduct for speakers addressing the council including bans on scurrilous and abusive comments. It is possible to criticize a person's actions without name-calling.

I thought of many things to say in attempting to set you progressives straight on this.
But as a got near the end of comments I lost interest in covering them.

So just a few.

Tensky, you're paranoid and something else yet to be identified.

The rest of you, this reaction that you progressives would do what you know to be wrong and no longer support the recall simply because some conservatives get involved is beyond ridiculous. For many reasons above.
Especally as some of you seem to imagine any alliance for recall would somehow equate to embracing or supporting "right wing hate"?
How is it that everythng Taft says about Creepy is hate?
Yet everything here and elsewhere by progressives isn't?

YoungOregonMoonbat said,
"I do believe that the fringe players (right-wing) do see the recall campaign as an opening to field Republican candidates for the office".

This is just run wild imagination.

I know many convervatives in the area including Taft and probably every other prominent Republican.
Not a one has any delusion that a Republican has any shot at the Mayor's office.
I also know that Taft and most others genuinely want the city to run better and stop making mnany of the blunders many progressives point out.

We clearly both opposed the tram and the biotech/SoWa boondoggle and do opposed any more like the convention center hotel etc.

Are we conservatives to think you'll stop opposing these schemes's if convervatives get too involved? Is thathow it is going to be?

I think Jack swayed when embarking on this thread but his last comment came back on track.
Let's get rid of Creepy.
Our little civil war can keep running along with the recall.

I'll come back to my original point: The Larses and Tafts need to get off this stage, as in yesterday. Obviously their devoted followers will sign and vote for the recall. But that's nowhere near enough signatures and votes. The key is the middle-of-the-road voter, and in Portland many if not most of them are instantly turned off by right-wing radio.

I think Jack swayed when embarking on this thread

As usual, you are wrong. Few things would make me happier than watching Sam Adams collect unemployment. That's been true since Fish let him beat him in the City Council election years ago; it was true yesterday, today, and now. My point is that a recall effort led by KXL and KPAM is ultimately going nowhere. It really needs leadership by people from the police union, Just Out and others on the left.

"I know many convervatives [sic]in the area including Taft and probably every other prominent Republican. Not a one has any delusion that a Republican has any shot at the Mayor's office.

You must not have read the Willie Week report on last night's Kick Out event. It says that Jeff Taylor was there in campaign mode. In fact, there's even a picture of him with his campaign sign which says "Pro Family Mayor."

When the recall group got started, no one seemed to be in charge until Jason Wurster stepped forward. Perhaps Wurster and the recall campaign are just shills for Taylor.

Who is Jeff Taylor?

Did WW find one Republican who thinks he has a shot at Creepy's job?

I stand firmly in reality that no prominent or active republican has any delusion that a Republican has any shot at the Mayor's office.

Jack,
I easily got your original point. You and many other progressives don't like conservatives. Especially when they are trotting on your lawn (recall).

However, your message serves as an excuse or encouragement for progressives to bail on the recall effort.
You could have made note of the conservative participation, taken your shots at them, while stressing the need to maintain support for the recall.

Now we got all sorts of embellishments about the conservative segment.

Some of them are reminding me of Randy Leonard's stunt when he claimed the opponents to the Tram and SoWa were "the Lars Larson types who also want to destroy our public school system".

Conservsatives have been right about a number of local issues for a long time.
That and this recall does not equate to some Republic movement that needs to be shut down by sustaining people like Creepy.

Let's get on with it and show Creepy the door.
His replacement will be a very progressive, and hopefully honest Democrat.

That rules out Leonard.

I don't particularly care for Taft and never listen to Lars Larson, but their voices on this issue seem magnified, and as Jack points out, they appear to be leading the cause, only because there isn't anybody from any other political group standing up to take charge. They are filling the void with their already loud voices.

I don't know if the answer is to shut them up and potentially lose a segment of the voters who want a recall (probably a vocal and rabid segment, by the by) or let them talk and lose another segment (the progressive "I sniff a conspiracy" if Repubs are involved).

Jack, I know you're busy and all . . . what of that budding radio career to give some balance on this topic and reach the masses who don't twitter and blog?

Jack,

I would tend to disagree with you here. Remember what Obama would like to do, he wants everyone to work together and stop this horrible divisiveness in this wonderful nation. I believe you are throwing fuel on the fire of divisiveness.

You can't have a group of people agreeing with each other 100% of the time. When people from opposite sides get together for one cause, and one goal, great things can happen. There are some niceties exchanged, and all the sudden people start listening to each other. People become less divisive, and less extreme. More reasonable even.

Take, for example, the people who oppose the 12 lane bridge. There are two camps running this opposition. One one side, you have the green crowd who are against pollution and sprawl. On the other, you have the staunch fiscal conservatives who say that we don't need to waste the money on this scheme. You have a rally downtown with Don Benton being cheered by green hippies. America is a wonderful place!

To accomplish major tasks, everyone needs to put aside differences and work towards one common goal. Victoria Taft is a vocal cheer leader, and something to get this campaign started. I don't see any progressives from 620 stepping up to the plate offering to deliver Sam's head on a silver platter. So that's all we've got right now.

By being a part of the recall Sam Adams campaign, it doesn't mean you are saying you agree with Victoria Taft. You don't have to side with her on everything, you share one common goal. Work to obtain it.

Why cut your nose off to spite your face. You want Sam out too, so don't give up hope just because someone who you disagree with on other issues also shares the same goal with you.

Besides, on most things fiscal, you agree with Taft, and would not agree with the ultra left progressives. Yes, you disagree with her social views, and that is just fine. You're kind of stuck in the middle, whether you want to believe it or not.

So let's be reasonable. Let's not divide what is a strong campaign to rid this city of something horrible. Who knows, each side might learn something from the other. The world operates best on consensus.

In order for us to make this world a better place we're going to have to start by working together on the things we agree on. I can almost guarantee the reason Jack has so many conservative readers here isn't so they can come on here and bash liberal ideas, but because many of Jack's positions on various topics and issues are conservative! (whether he likes it or not, it's the truth :)

Jason Wurster should publicly disavow any connection between the recall campaign and Jeff Taylor's mayoral campaign.

Hi All,

The recall will not support or endorse anyone thinking of running for mayor.

Though, we do ask that you as citizens start talking with civic and business leaders to have them start stepping up to the plate in calling for Sam Adams to resign and supporting his recall.

More so, we need you to talk with your friends and neighbors about singing up at www.recallsamadams.com and to start working together (even with people you ideologically disagree with) toward the common goal of removing Sam Adams from office.

Together we will make out government better,

RecallSamAdams.com
Jasun Wurster

Looks like I hit a nerve to point where I am being called "batboy" and my argument is being interpreted as a "straw man" fallacy.

I am not misrepresenting my opponent's position. Jeff Taylor starting his campaign for mayor at the recall campaign kickoff proves my argument correct.

Yet, individuals reacting vehemently and using ad hominem (See "bat boy") means that I am hitting a raw nerve. Thank you for complimenting me :)

>>>>>>The rest of you, this reaction that you progressives would do what you know to be wrong and no longer support the recall simply because some conservatives get involved is beyond ridiculous. For many reasons above.
Especally as some of you seem to imagine any alliance for recall would somehow equate to embracing or supporting "right wing hate"?
How is it that everythng Taft says about Creepy is hate?>>>>>>>>>>>

For me, it's not the involvement of Conservatives. Discussion about Sam and his issues is fine. What has me ready to walk away from supporting the recall are the recurring diatribes about Liberals. I don't need the aggravation of cooperating with people who loathe me and my political opinions so much they can't refrain from insults, even with a shared common interest.

Sam is a political problem for the city. In my Personal Scale of Life's Aggravations he rates lower (as one vote in 5 on Council) than people who can't shut-up about their loathing of my political views.

As I said before... People wanting to recall Sam need to choose their issue. Is it Sam, Portland Liberals, or now this Jeff Taylor guy. Continue to mix your disdain for anything Liberal or a conservative candidate with the recall and the recall is DOA.

Couldn't have said it better myself, PdxMark.

Speaking of Republicans:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2009/05/13/republicans/index.html

"... we're going to have to start by working together on the things we agree on."

Agreed. And we pound out that consensual agreement in the flesh, hard-copy, writing, reading, debating, disagreeing, concluding -- among ourselves. And leave the brain-bending MassMind media OUT OF IT. Cut them out. (Taft and Larson command all -- the PUBLIC -- to do it their way and pay homage/credit/tribute to them as 'elite celebrity' more worthy than we.) Broadcast is inherently one-way, and therefore disqualified where we must work ideas back and forth.

"... many of Jack's positions on various topics and issues are conservative! (whether he likes it or not, it's the truth :)" WHICH IS not a problem since Jack can be reasoned with! He listens, he thinks, he replies. He writes. He reads. Literacy is the antidote for a misbegotten developmental childhood, an engraved brain cast in concrete.

Literacy, back-and-forth reading-and-writing feels the love, calms the fear, and cures fear-based 'conservative principle.'

- -
Here's what I was saying yesterday: A must-read about the rise of Militia Media, May 15, 2009, by Eric Boehlert.

Tensky, you're paranoid and something else yet to be identified. All together now: say socialist.

Most of my paranoid fear was cured when I recognized I'm not important enough for anyone to stalk or threaten me, and I have no enviable possessions anyone wants to steal. When we understand the same thing goes for America -- there is nowhere in the world a threat to our country, we have nothing anyone wants to steal -- then fear-based 'rightwing' xenophobic paranoia is dispelled and 'cured.' Our threats and thieves are our own in this country, here among us. It is us.

youngoregonmoonbat,

Your one obscure example of Jeff Taylor does not prove your argument correct in the slightest. Not even close.

You were wrong about Republican thinking and motivations, period.

recall creepy

Literacy also is corrective treatment for mistaken belief in absurdities -- do you agree? Some guy literally wrote this:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire (not his real name).

Nice cameo by frequent commenter, Karlok. (JK). I like his wait and see stance.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/45057742.html?video=YHI&t=a

Hey guys, I own Nick's and when I agreed to open my doors up for this rally, taking all the risk with my business and livelihood, I realized I could not exclude anyone from this event. Even those who support Sam had every right to come see and hear the message. All forms of media was in attendance or involved throughout the day. OPB, KGW, KATU, KOIN, KPTV, CNN, The Oregonian, Willie Week, Mercury, all the radio stations etc. Realistically I was in no position to turn Victoria or any liberal commentator for that matter away. I am sorry if some supporters think it distorted the message but I am confident that cherry picking the media's access would of been a much worse offense for the recall kickoff under these circumstances. I don’t hate Sam Adam's and I don't care what he does or with who. I am just sick of liar politicians (it has become an epidemic in this country) and I figured I had to do my part to put my foot down. In closing its very easy to pick an event like this apart. Especially when evaluating who should have been there and who shouldn’t have. But in reality you were not the one that agreed to open their doors to the public or the possibility of negative reactions from some of your cherished customer base. Stick to the positive. Its was a great event attended by a very wide array of concerned and motivated citizens. Everyone had a good time and the public was reminded through every media outlet imaginable that the issue of Sam’s lies and subsequent cover-up is not going away.

Just my 2 cents.

Ty, you are to be commended for doing it. It was a great gesture to the rest of the city.

My point here was to Jasun -- he needs to show a broad coalition of people involved in the effort, not just the frustrated Republicans among us.

BTW, my kids and I have been in your place a few times. We all love it.

Ty - I agree with Jack. I don't have any problem with your hosting the event. The problem is that Jason Wurster keeps saying it is a non-partisan effort. (For that matter, the position of mayor is a non-partisan position, too.) So when someone shows up with a campaign sign which says "Pro Life Mayor" on it, it's hard to know what's going on.

Thanks Ty. Period.

I don't like Sam's policy, but the fact remains that the reason for this recall and the support behind it are horribly misguided and I'm glad it's being seen for the ridiculous farce it is.

That being said, hopefully public criticism will help steer Sam in the right direction, away from currying support from corrupt sources, to keep himself in office against bogus opposition.

Free Country...The guy walked in to Nicks. NOBODY THERE KNEW WHO THIS GUY WAS.

One of the TV stations commissioned a poll. Half of the respondents said they would sign the recall petition. On the street interviews made it look like the actual per centage might be smaller. Several people said they would not support it, and others said they don't care. So the recall looks like an iffy proposition right now. That might change depending on the results of the AG's investigation.

"Tensky, you're paranoid and something else yet to be identified."

Best line I've read in years. Polite, yet condescending. I enjoy Tenksy's posts, only because you never really know how far out they're going to be.

They also serve as a cautionary tale against recreational drugs.

Hi Hopeful,

There are about 320,000 registered Portland voters. The poll results you mentioned suggest that 160,000 people would sign the recall petition, where our goal is merely 50,000. I would say that those numbers look pretty darn good for the Recall.

Also, keep in mind that the Recall election in November is an off-season special election in which sadly we would be lucky to see above a 30 percent turnout. Hence, 96,000 voters. Seeing how we have 50,000 identified voters and only need 50 percent + 1 vote to recall Adams... again, I would say that these numbers look pretty darn good for the Recall.

The real challenge is getting enough volunteers to get the 50,000 signatures.

No matter what the AG report comes back with, we will file on July 1st and start collecting signatures. The only person who can stop us is Sam Adams... with his resignation.

RecallSamAdams.com
Jasun Wurster

After an early dinner downtown, my wife and I decided to stop by Nicks where I use to "dine" when I lived in Ladds Addition and see the mix of people that might show up for the Party. We found a table of three "liberals" who scooted over for us. What was very noticeable after hearing discussions going on around us, was that it wasn't a demo or repub crowd, but an exploratory crowd that wanted to do something to promote integrity in government.

Thank you, Ty for opening your doors. It wasn't like Will Radik's portrayal. I'm getting exhausted from those who purposefully try to paint a false picture. I want to thank the media that on whole fairly depicted the evening.

A Democrat, if that means anything.

If Sam get's the boot, every body wins.

1. The right can no longer use Sam Adams as an example of a liberal leader.
2. The left will probably win the ensuing election, and anyone is better than Adams.
3. The right is happier.
4. The left has more credibility and is happier.
5. The left will prove it can look past those it dislikes in order to progress.

Victoria Taft's enthusiastic support of the recall is a given. Saying Victoria Taft is the reason this issue doesn't have your support is like saying you won't take your daily swim due to water. It's just a blanket statement you can't really justify.

The recall has my full support, regardless of what Taft does. But that's not the way many Portlanders are going to view this.