Well looks like the Sam and Earl show has come thru again. Maybe he thinks this is enough to buy him a recall election.

BTW - How come no post on the snOregonian's inPortland section on water rates? I was amazed they are actually somewhat critical. The best part was Randy saying his biggest mistake was not raising rates sooner. Poor water bureau people they have cut to the bone and really can't find anything else.

“This became a priority when the administration came into office and we decided the concept of livable communities is something we really want to expand,” LaHood said. “Portland is a model for this.”

"expand the concept of livable communities". good lord. Surely, he has some idea how vacuous that actually sounds.

Streetcars don't make "livable communities". Never have. no proof at all. what they are is boutique, political points-winning projects that feel warm and fuzzy. it's fun to ride a slow-moving car and say "ooh" as it cruises past retail.

and this one? a few miles of track that will link retail to retail. nothing more. and, it will do what buses and light rail *already do*.

One of the posts there made a good point. Other cities like Eugene and Salem are losing bus service because of lack of funds, yet Portland gets millions to build trains.

And the best part is its for areas already served by buses.

The problem in both Salem and Eugene is the same problem in Portland -- the feds will give you big bucks to build things, none to run it or maintain it. The pols all want to be there for the ribbon cutting and get their names on the plaque by the door; none of them gives a rip about having the toilets snaked when needed or providing a driver for the buses. Eugene has had some nice capital expansion projects for bus rapid transit; now they have a system they can't afford to operate.

I don't know why it's ok to use stimulus money to extend unemployment but not to prevent it. . . .

This is not much different than jive talking Obama giving $8 billion to a hedge fund running Chrysler. Nothing but a united autoworkers payoff. Corruption at all levels, and brought to you by the democrat party no less.

In fact streetcars contribute significantly to liveability in many cities. Hong Kong and Amsterdam are examples of this.

Darn. Now the erector set parking garage at the west end of The Pearl won't be demolished. Talk about ugly, underutilized and not worth saving. Hard to believe it didn't make Randy's list of Portland eyesores.

Should be "East end of The Pearl at the Lovejoy Ramp."

Allan L.: In fact streetcars contribute significantly to liveability in many cities. Hong Kong and Amsterdam are examples of this.
JK: Typical planner deception. Portland will NEVER be as dense as Hong Kong. But Potland’s illeterate planners like to bring up these dense cities as examples of things that work, without telling us that Hong Kong has some of the longest commute times in the world. But people’s time does not matter to the planner because he knows how others should live.

Portland’s deceptive planners also like to hold up Vancouver BC as a model of high density that works, without telling us that it only works for millionaires – the typical condo costs over $2 MILLION for a 2000 sq ft unit. Compared to about $180,000 for a house on a large lot in a city without planner’s nutty schemes.

That is just one example of why some think planners should be run out of town on their own rail. Of course what they are really doing is running the low income out of town - mostly minorities. Most things that planners tell us are outright lies, see: debunkingportland.com/Smart/SmartGrowthLies.html

Portland's streetcar cost over $1.67 to carry each person each mile. Bus costs $0.835 and driving a car costs $0.25, so the logical place to spend money is on streetcars because the goal of these twits is to spend money on their friends (developers, contractors & consultants), not transportation.
See debunkingportland.com/Transit/Cost-Cars-Transit(2005).htm

BTW, Allan, do you by any chance happen to work for the city, a developer, a consulting company, a construction company or a street car huckster?

Thanks
JK

JK: "driving a car costs $0.25"

Yes, if Santa brings you a nice, all paid-for car that you don't have to replace, two bits a mile might be in the ballpark. But in this world, it's more like $0.65-0.85 per mile, and it can be much higher for many folks.

You people drink too much coffee. Be glad for what you have.

#2.Jack

"BREAKING NEWS..SELLWOOD BRIDGE DOWN"

OK..I bit on Jack Bog's "JOKE!" on the political dollars given to electeds who face a recall.

The news...thank God, is not the night's lead story, but it damn well could have been.

It should read..."TRANSPORTATION DOLLARS ARRIVE FOR REBUILD OF SELLWOOD BRIDGE,THANKS TO TEAM EFFORT BY TED AND SAM!"

Hell no, we get "PIG DOLLARS" no interest in the priority needs of a city and county, who could have looked after the best interests of us all.

Besides a real community safety issue, I went after Sam's fairy "GOD MOM" for via my recall effort, I always thought the use of "transportation" dollars by her for a floating fishing dock was so far over the top..it was just criminal.

That Street car deal ...I'll bet money will go to the current builders of the eastside, downtown and everywhere else train deal now in process.

Check those key folks from that firm for possible election contributions.

It has to stop..will someone step forward and lead this recall,or supply all that is needed to bring it off, to stop this insanity.

George Anonymuncule Seldes:
JK: "driving a car costs $0.25"

Yes, if Santa brings you a nice, all paid-for car that you don't have to replace, two bits a mile might be in the ballpark.
JK: You obviously didn’t follow the link because if you did you would have found that US Government data gives that kind of number as does the AAA when you backout their new car fetish. That number is all inclusive, gas, oil, repairs, depreciation, taxes (and therefore road constructions & maintenance).

George Anonymuncule Seldes: But in this world, it's more like $0.65-0.85 per mile, and it can be much higher for many folks.
JK: No its’s not. Unless you are talking a new car every 5 years like the AAA data. The actual average car is 9 years old. See the link. Including how the AAA gets its number and why it applies to yuppies, not ordinary people.

Quit believing the crap coming from the enviro car haters - they lie just like city planners.

Thanks
JK

JK: "That number is all inclusive, gas, oil, repairs, depreciation, taxes (and therefore road constructions & maintenance)."

Hahahahahahaha-whew! Funny! I guess you need to come up with a per-mile figure for driving the average house then, since most local roads are funded by _property_ taxes, not gas taxes.

JK, I don't think you have ever seen or heard me advocate for a streetcar in Portland. But to say that streetcars don't contribute positively, ever, anywhere, is just untrue.

In fact streetcars contribute significantly to liveability in many cities. Hong Kong and Amsterdam are examples of this.

nope. main user of Hong Kong's streetcar (tram) system? tourists. main reason? they're cheaper than the subway (and safer for tourists). oh, and--Hong Kong has over 14 times the population of Portland.

ever been to Hong Kong? if so, you have a very unusual definition of "neighborhood livability".

Amsterdam? ever notice the size and design of Amsterdam compared to, say, Portland? no? i'll clue you in: they don't resemble each other at all. Amsterdam is dead flat and has numerous canals. apartments come right up to the street, and the streets are *much* smaller. very few trees. it covers about half the size of Portland--yet has 150% of its population.

being dead flat and small, with small streets (and I mean *small*), small buildings up to the street and little greenery to speak of, streetcars are easy to catch--though the majority of residents just hop a bicycle or drive. and guess who most streetcar riders are? tourists!

most local roads are funded by _property_ taxes, not gas taxes.

Not so much...according to this...

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohim/hs06/htm/sf5.htm

Nearly half is paid by vehicle/fuel taxes, and the rest is covered by the feds.

George Anonymuncule Seldes

Where did you get the idea roads were funded with property taxes?

JK is spot on as usual. But reality to so offensive for may Portlanders they cough up the planner speak to avoid it.

Stories like this:

https://www.planetizen.com/node/24466

and this

http://moderntransit.org/letters/budget.html

and this

http://random10.blogspot.com/2007/07/roads-property-tax-villain.html

and so on and so on.

George Anonymuncule Seldes:
JK: "That number is all inclusive, gas, oil, repairs, depreciation, taxes (and therefore road constructions & maintenance)."

Hahahahahahaha-whew! Funny! I guess you need to come up with a per-mile figure for driving the average house then, since most local roads are funded by _property_ taxes, not gas taxes.
JK: Wow! You really have drunk the cool aid from the planners/bikers/enviros.

Please educate yourself before again making a fool of yourself again. A good stating place is debunkingportland.com/ where you will find links to quality data for most claims. So just browse until you find something you think is wrong, then follow the links back to the source at which time you will realize that you have been fed a load of crap by who ever you have been listening to.

In the meantime, you should probably knock off the smart ass (Hahahahahahaha-whew! Funny! ) comments until you are actually correct with your claims. The smart ass just makes you look even more foolish than you are.

Thanks
JK

"Please educate yourself before again making a fool of yourself again." Wow. I think we have witnessed the ultimate pot kettle moment.

guess who most streetcar riders are? tourists!

Source?

JK: No its’s not. Unless you are talking a new car every 5 years like the AAA data. The actual average car is 9 years old. See the link. Including how the AAA gets its number and why it applies to yuppies, not ordinary people.

Quit believing the crap coming from the enviro car haters - they lie just like city planners.

So now AAA is a bunch of enviro car haters? LOL

Allan L. - your (funny) quote "In fact streetcars contribute significantly to liveability in many cities." is a prime example of how to find something positive about anything. You know, if a man gets his testicles cut off (for some reason) you can always say, "In fact, he won't get testicular cancer." Yeah, I'll bet that will make the guy feel ALOT better about the situation.

Sorry, streetcars are a HUGE waste of money and time. I, for one, can't think of much of anything that is less of a ROI than streetcars (although I've learned that Portland can come up with more money wasting schemes than my wildest imagination could dream of).

However, there IS one last thing that we can do in this country. We can move out of areas where the politicians are dumber than a bag of hammers. That is what I finally did and with jobs dying each and every day in Oregon, I'm glad I did. I wish Obama wasn't planning on taxing me as much as he will be by the time he's finally out of office, but at least the city of Portland and the state of Oregon will get a few less pennies out of me.

guess who most streetcar riders are? tourists!
Source?

In fact streetcars contribute significantly to liveability in many cities. Hong Kong and Amsterdam are examples of this.

source?

and seriously, Allan, did you not know that the #1 reason for the streetcar is to promote development? it's in the plan, the policy documents, the speeches.

and witness the excitement that erupted when the streetcar connected with the Tram.

sounds pretty, right? except it's fundamentally nonsensical. the Tram *doesn't go anywhere*--except to a hospital--and it costs $4.

"public" transit indeed. it's no more complicated than this: it's a boutique project aimed at ego gratification, like much of the other mind-boggling "partnerships" issuing from City Hall.

because without unending development, what would so many of these people do, right? priorities are schizophrenic. human and ecological health are held up with sincerity, but it's a gag-inducing mockery.

and no--the only alternative to "unending development" is not "no development".

George, your links provide information for Minnesota, California, and Wisconsin. All states fund things differently. You have anything on Oregon? If not, try my link above.

Good greif George,

When you said
"since most local roads are funded by _property_ taxes, not gas taxes."

You didn't say in "other states".

Those three links are from Minnesoda, Californai and Wisconsin.

We're talking about Oregon.

Now are you suggesting we raise or divert existing property taxes to add to our transportation system funding that prioritized streetcars over roads and a new light rail bridge over the sellwood bridge?
Great, that's exactly what Urban Renewal does.
You must be a big fan of TIF.

Ben: Actually, what I favor is this: if we're going to have a Constitutional limitation devoting the gas tax to roads, then it should cut both ways --- roads should only be funded through the gas tax. And that includes salaries and overhead for all the road support activities: police, fire, maintenance, ODOT highway planning, plowing, sanding, etc.

No general fund, no TIF, no property-tax-based maintenance levies, nothing.

If the gas tax is to pay for roads, then roads should be paid for with the gas tax, and only the gas tax.

Jon: I did try your link above. I'm having a hard time squaring it with the property tax levy that, for example, Salem just passed ($100 million for road repairs). But it does appear that I was wrong, at least for Oregon, at least for that year.

wait, isn't all this government funding of roads Socialism? We don't want that. Let the free market operate. no government intervention in building things or providing services--the market can do it better.

YESSSSS!

the more streetcars lines we have the more annoying it will be for inner PDX car drivers. stop whining and get rid of your cars!

"the Tram *doesn't go anywhere*--except to a hospital--and it costs $4."

actually there is a very nice plaid pantry on the hill too.

bikestowork: very nice plaid pantry on the hill too.
JK: Great observation -- Portland Planners dream store: the kind of market you can walk to to get a quart of milk and pay 5 times what Wall Mart charges.

Save money - go by car!

Thanks
JK

no government intervention in building things or providing services--the market can do it better.

Well, your sarcasm does make a point. If developers want to build all this new housing, then they should fit the bill for the infrastructure to support it. Roads, schools, whatever.

bikestowork, is it really worth it to spend $4 to ride an aerial tram to Plaid Pantry? Sounds like a ridiculous waste to me.

Not surprising they're getting pork for this needless slow train with Earl Screwmenauer and friends around. I'm hoping getting Tram Adams and friends recalled will possibly put an end to some of this crap and create a (much-needed) paradigm shift in Portland (and Oregon) politics.

i've got a modest proposal for prioritizing government efforts:

"human and ecological health first, always".

when those are being addressed, then we indulge our egos with "sports stadiums", "convention hotels", "sustainable 30-story skyscrapers" and "aerial trams".

ecohuman: "human and ecological health first, always".
JK:
So far, so good. How would you prioritize the following:

Human health
Jobs
Income level
Human happiness
Ease of Travel
Ecological heath