Yep, those fat benefit packages are really going to start causing budget problems in the future. Actually, NY and CA are both seeing big problems now. Both places jacked up pay and benefits over the last 20 years so much that now they are going to have real trouble making good on the promises. Public officials appear to be powerless when faced with demands for more pay and benefits from their employees. Must be some special voodoo or something.

Organized labor has seen this coming for years now and that is why they are working so furiously to consolidate power right now.

Unions are powerful politically right now, but they only comprise about 12% of all workers. They know that in an extreme economic emergency they might find themselves voted/tossed out of lifeboat (and the federal card check legislation is designed to swell their numbers enough so that they can dictate who stays in the lifeboat).

Even if they manage to retain command of the lifeboat, it won't change their longterm prospects: parasites cannot endure for long after they consume the host.

Time to dust off Atlas Shrugged.

Forbes has an interesting article up about the threat that public employee pensions pose to all of our financial futures.

I see: One of the primary mouthpieces of the GOP goes on the offensive for the zillionth time against organized labor, and we're supposed to regard this attack as some sort of considered judgment? Excuse me if I have a problem with this.

Unions are powerful politically right now

Looks as if the comedians are posting.

Time to dust off Atlas Shrugged.

I do so love Ayn Rand. Any woman who can write a novel (The Fountainhead) with a rapist as the hero is truly deserving of our hushed respect.

Clearly the only Ideologically Correct Course of Action is to continue tearing down organized labor so it is as powerless as the non-unionized.

I'm still waiting for the fiscally prudent to start worrying about organized capital. I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile longer.

Excuse me if I have a problem with this.

You're excused for your ideological blindness.

Some day when you learn about numbers you'll understand.

Thanks for trolling by.

"One of the primary mouthpieces of the GOP goes on the offensive for the zillionth time against organized labor"

Fine, if there is a politician out there who is willing to state what the unfunded liabilities are, I'm all ears.

It just won't happen - every elected official lives in abject fear of not doing everything the public employee unions ask for. Maybe you can give me an example of the last time an elected official ever said no to a union leader?

I believe Schwarzneggar is trying in Cali, but he is facing the machine and they won't do anything - even at $27B in debt.

I love unions. The freedom to organize and negotiate on a more equal level created a the middle class. Plus those weekends are awfully addictive.

Having said that, how did end up this deep in the crapper without a fight? Growing up in England you could set your clock by the annual firefighters strike. It was cool to see the army fire trucks (green goddesses) driving around. In every city in the US they seem to have got everything they wanted without even having to raise their voices. The general public would be astounded to find out how sweet a deal it is.

The brother-in-law is a firefighter in Orange County and will be "retiring" in a couple of years aged fortysomething. He will get the pension and walk straight into a job with a neighboring district. When we mentioned to him that this was why every city in the US is technically bankrupt it was clearly the first time he'd heard any criticism.

"He will get the pension and walk straight into a job with a neighboring district. When we mentioned to him that this was why every city in the US is technically bankrupt it was clearly the first time he'd heard any criticism."
===

Very little shame out there.

I had the same conversation with an old "retired" school teacher. They had retired from one district, go their pension (that they earned) and then jumped to a neighboring district and got the maximum amount on the pay ladder. He said he finally felt so embarrassed that the district could replace him with two younger (5-8 yrs experience) teachers who would do a much better, more energetic job, that he decided to really retire. He was the exception, most just hang around like deadwood until they can no longer fog a mirror.

To be honest I wasn't looking for shame. Just recognition that he is getting away with something extraordinary. I was also hoping it would make him less of a right-wing tosser. No luck on either front.

It's difficult to watch relatives who never put as much into the system as they are now sucking up through retirement living the good life while we pay and pay for it with no similar promise of security forthcoming at any time in the future.

I used to think that we would be taking care of my parents as they journeyed into old age. It looks more likely that they will have to help us out if they don't spend it all on new cars, trips to Hawaii and Europe (not kidding).

While not government workers, PGE retirees get cut rates on their electricity. Guess who gets to pay for it?

"It's difficult to watch relatives who never put as much into the system as they are now sucking up through retirement living the good life while we pay and pay for it with no similar promise of security forthcoming at any time in the future."

For me, it's difficult to watch people who never put anything into any system sucking it out, i.e. Oregon Health Plan, TANF, SSDI, you name it. I guess for public employee plans, my take is this; don't make a commitment to something and then not fund it. It's time to quit playing the shell game and explain to public employees, teacher, firefighters, police and so on that PERS isn't there, it's an illusion and the benefits aren't going to be that good. Then we'll see who shows up for these jobs.

These pensions were pretty standard for the private sector as well many years ago, before globalization wiped out U.S. manufacturing. Now the only folks left with these pensions are govt employees, and it seems like an expensive anachronism. The truth is that all workers in the U.S. could have such pensions if we weren't up to our eyeballs in debt, and paying $100 million bonuses to all the CEOs, and spending $trilllions on the war on terror.

Frank,

I agree that a decent pension for everybody should be the normal order of business in a first-world country - kind of like that other modern "luxury" called health insurance. I do worry about a mouthpiece for the wealthy such as Forbes trying to get the plebs to fight amongst themselves, thereby distracting everybody from the failure of the current system.

Having said that, nobody should be getting a pension for life after 20 years of well-paid work. Logic and the life expectancy tables show the folly of that. I think unions are great, but the system doesn't work if only one side can be bothered fighting.

Twenty years of working as a cop or a firefighter is more physical and mental stress than most people can handle. I don't begrudge them their pension. And I'd rather have well-paid cops who don't need to have a "side business" as in corrupt towns like New Orleans. If there's class warfare at hand, I'm not siding with Steve Forbes.

Grateful Dead Speedway Boogie

Now I don't know, but I been told
if the horse don't pull you got to carry the load.
I don't know whose back's that strong,
maybe find out before too long.

One way or another, one way or another,
one way or another, this darkness has got to give.
One way or another, one way or another,
one way or another, this darkness has got to give.

If you want some more good news, read the Sunday O Business section on the OIC. It looks like they rolled the dice on some high return funds and got burned to the point they don't want to speculate on actual losses.

Of course, this doesn't matter since the PERS plans are defined benefits and guaranteed returns. We'll just make up the diff from the general fund. Say hello to the school year being one month long.

The first link, okay but that "Reason" link is a story by an AEI flak saying that pensions are going bankrupt because of "socially responsible investing"? I dinna get it.

I love how those AEI/Reason dudes ignore the main issue, that the religion of self-policing free markets has proven to be false and that the lack of strong regulatory controls and no SEC enforcement for a decade has transformed our stock market from an engine of economic growth to a shell game.

These guys were great on the debating team, but they would make terrible professors.