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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on January 2, 2009 4:54 AM. The previous post in this blog was Don't look now.... The next post in this blog is From OregBear's friends. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

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Friday, January 2, 2009

Oregon outdoor moments

A reader who read our post of yesterday about the new bottle deposit rules in Oregon writes:

Another observation I made today regarding new laws that take effect -- only anecdotal, of course. But like the bottle bill, there may be some story here.

Driving north on MLK / Grand, I noticed that the population of street people seemed to have tripled overnight. On second look, they were only standing in specific doorways. Looking closer, it was only at the bars. And it was only smokers that were standing around. Head-slap moment once I realized what was going on.

Posted at 4:54 AM | Bookmark and Share

Comments (22)

How close to the doors were they? According to the bill:

2) A person may not smoke or carry any lighted smoking instrument within 25 feet of the following parts of public places or places of employment:
(a) Entrances;
(b) Exits;
(c) Windows that open; and
(d) Ventilation intakes that serve an enclosed area.

How close? They were all far enough away from those video crack machines not to be plunking money into them.

I thought the 25 feet was Washington State. Our intrepid local news crews have been saying 10 feet and marking it off on camera with tape measures.

local news crews have been saying 10 feet and marking it off on camera with tape measures.

Duct tape, anyone?

The sign by the door to my workplace, just put there since 12/31, says 10 feet.

Had to share - a few years ago a group of businessmen from China were touring downtown pdx and one gentleman expressed surprise that there were so many prostitutes in our city. You know, all those nicely dressed women standing around on the street by shop back doors, smoking ...

I drove past the VQ last night where several well-dressed patrons were huddled in the doorway smoking and avoiding the rain. It looked like a nicotine-clogged clown car.

If there were ever any hopes of rounding them all up to expel them from Oregon, this would be the time.

All the brochures and info we've gotten from the state says 10 feet. It's 25' in Washington.

Even 10' is going to be really difficult in some spots, where there isn't more than 20' between doors/windows/vents/etc.

Of course I don't think it is an offense for a person to be smoking too close. From what I have seen bars can get in trouble if they allow it inside, but I don't think a bar can control what someone does on public property once they are on the sidewalk.

They might as well make it that you can't smoke within 10' of someone who doesn't want to breathe the second hand smoke. Or just ban it in all public places including sidewalks, and roads unless you are smoking in your car with all the windows, doors, and vents closed.

This is exactly what we need during an economic collapse. Nothing to see here just keep on moving

Here is a very large second hand smoking study. Note the very large, long term, sample size, which gives it a lot of credibility (although I have seen attacks on it.):

Design Prospective cohort study covering 39 years.
Setting Adult population of California, United States.
Participants 118 094 adults enrolled in late 1959 in the American Cancer Society cancer prevention study (CPS I), who were followed until 1998. Particular focus is on the 35 561 never smokers who had a spouse in the study with known smoking habits.
....
Conclusions The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.

from: BMJ VOLUME 326 17 MAY 2003 (some bold added) bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057

Any credible criticisms of this study? (Please no “oil company funded” it type arguments.)

Thanks
JK

mmm...karlock.

Oops, it is 10 feet. The 25 feet came from the Senate version before the House amended it (is my understanding).

This is stupid. Why can't we have a bar for smokers? Where only smokers are allowed. That way they can smoke, gamble, drink and keep warm.

"Why can't we have a bar for smokers?"

The state could make a fortune auctioning off the rights to be each neighborhood's exclusive smoking bar.

Start the bidding ...

"Why can't we have a bar for smokers?"

It makes more sense to have indoor places where they can do their thing and non-smokers can just stay away. (Hmmm, kind of like we had a few days ago.)

As is, they're going to be out on the streets. I live across from the side of a non-smoking coffee shop where people have always smoked out front. The piles and piles of butts and garbage become the public's problem.

And as soon as someone figures out that the smokers out front are within 10 feet of the door, they're going to move around the side and I'm going to be staring at them from my front window. Yippee.

It makes more sense to have indoor places where they can do their thing and non-smokers can just stay away.

Not when you consider that the business will have the liability of second-hand inhalation by employees.

I've always thought that the simple answer to smoking / no smoking would be to pass a sign law. If a business chooses to allow smoking, they would be required to post a sign by the front door saying "Smoking Allowed". Heck, make it red. Businesses that choose to not allow smoking would be allowed but not required to post a sign that said "Smoking Not Allowed" by entrances. Make that one pretty forest green. Then, allow the free market to decide. I can assure you that if one type of business was packed and the other type was going broke, changes would be made quickly.

Workers could decide what type of business they wanted to work at, and make appropriate choices. No tougher than the rest of us that choose what type of job we want to have. I think during the change there would be ample opportunity to change to whatever type of establishment you wanted to work at. Since cooks typically work in the kitchen with forced ventilation hoods, they shouldn't be affected one way or the other.

I do not and can not understand the willingness of people to allow the government one more intrusion in all our lives. A good friend once told me that when the Government wants to infringe on our civil liberties they'll do it in the name of "safety" or "public good". As we allow more and more intrusions into our lives, I hope you're all going to be comfortable with the "safety" and "public good" the powers at be seem to have in mind.

I feel like a frog in a pot of water and boy, is it me or is it getting really warm all of a sudden...??

Workers could decide what type of business they wanted to work at, and make appropriate choices.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. Especially musicians who depend on getting booked to make a living

"In theory, yes. In practice, no. Especially musicians who depend on getting booked to make a living"

I understand the smoking ban will be hardest on them. They'll just have to do without until they leave the "no smoking" venue....;-)

Yeah...How about all those professional performance artists who insist upon smoking real prop cigarettes?

I think they should be censored.

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In Vino Veritas

Dom Martinho, Tinto 2005
Chateau St. Jean, Cabernet, California 2007
Kirkland, Napa Cabernet 2007
Revelry, The Reveler, 2007
Joseph Drouhin, Chablis 2006
Altos Las Hormigas, Mendoza Malbec 2008
Alodio, Ribeira Sacra Mencia 2007
Charles Smith, Kung Fu Girl Riesling 2008
Kiona, Lemberger 2006
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Columbia Valley Merlot 2005
Paranga, Kir-Yianni 2005
L. Guigal, Cotes du Rhone Rose 2007
Gloria Ferrer, Sonoma Brut
Kirkland, Napa Valley Meritage 2006
Abacela, Tempranillo 2006
Woodward Canyon, Columbia Valley Red
Santa Margherita, Pinot Grigio 2007
Mas Donis Barrica, Celler de Capcanes Red, 2005
Three Rivers, Merlot 2006
Raptor Ridge, Pinot Gris 2008
Lezaun, Rosado, Navarra
Lezaun, Red, Navarra
Hedges, Three Vineyards, Red Mountain 2005
Raptor Ridge, Pinot Gris 2008
Vega Sindoa, Cabernet-Tempranillo 2006
Inama, Soave Classico 2007
Alois Lageder, Lagrein Rosato 2008
Broglia, Gavi 2007
Marqués de Cáceres, Rioja Rose 2008
Spaltagna, Riserva Pinot Noir 2008
Portuga, Rose 2008
Warre's Warrior Port
Lange, Pinot Noir 2007
Chateau Guiraud, Le G, 2007
Falset, Garnacha Rose, Montsant 2006
Castello di Bossi, Chianti Classico 2004
Domaine Chandon, Pinot Noir, La Riviere Sonoma 2006
Brazin, Old Vine Zinfandel, Lodi 2006
B.R. Cohn, Silver Label Cabernet 2006
Casillero del Diablo, Cabernet 2007
Gentil Hugel, Alsace 2006
Mesoneros de Castilla, Ribero del Duero, Rosado 2008
Cor, Momentum 2007
Santa Margherita, Pinot Grigio 2006
Rubico, Lacrima di Morro d'Alba 2007
Gilstrap Brothers, Reserve Merlot 2003
Conundrum 2007
Chandler Reach, 36 Red
Santa Rita, Reserve Cabernet 2005
Marietta, Old Vine Red Lot 47
L'Ecole No. 41, Recess Red 2006
Dom Martinho, Red 2004
Beaulieu, Georges Latour 1994
Caymus, Cabernet 1995
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2005
Bergevin Lane, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2005
Savigny-les-Beaune, Les Lavieres 2003
David Hill, Reserve Merlot, Rogue Valley 2006
Educated Guess, Cabernet 2006
Maquis Lien, Red 2005
Charles Smith, Kung Fu Girl Riesling 2007
David Hill, Farmhouse White
Robert Mondavi Solaire, Cabernet 2005
Castello Monaci, Liante, Salice Salentino 2006
Ricardo Santos, Malbec 2006
Quinta da Espiga, Tinto 2006
Charles Smith, Holy Cow Merlot 2006
Charles Smith, Boom Boom Syrah 2006
Charles Smith, The Honorable Pinot Gris 2007
Santa Rita, Cabernet Reserva 2005
King Estate, Pinot Gris 2007
Gloria, Douro, Tinto 2002
Bogle, Petite Sirah Port, Clarksburg 2005
Cardwell Hill, Pinot Noir 2004
Silkwood, Red Duet Cabernet-Syrah 2004
Portuga, Vinho Branco 2006, 2007
Osborne, Solaz 2004
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Reserva 2005
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill, Shiraz Cabernet 2006
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2004
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Merlot, Horse Heaven Hills 2004
Hannah Nicole, Red 2004
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2005
Protocolo, Red 2005
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2006
Portuga, Vinho Branco 2006
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1998
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1996
Kirkland, Roogle Shiraz 2004
Garda, Classico Chiaretto
A to Z, Oregon Pinot Gris 2005
I Giusti & Zanza, Nemorino 2006
Treana, Marsanne-Viognier, Central Coast 2005
Fife, Syrah, "Stanford" 2000
B.R. Cohn, Silver Label Cabernet 2005
Marques de Casa Concha, Cabernet 2005
Santi, Sortesele Pinot Grigio 2006
Al Muvedre, Tinto Joven 2006
Layer Cake, Shiraz 2006
Gritti, Ca' Andrea, Umbria red 2005
Altos de Luzon, Jumilla 2004
Thomas Leithner, Zweigelt 2004
Cain Cuvee NV 3
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Merlot 2003
Meridian, Sauvignon Blanc 2005
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2003
Paringa, Shiraz 2005

The Occasional Book

F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt

Road Work

Miles run year to date: 64
At this date last year: 28
Total run in 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
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