This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on January 14, 2009 12:32 AM. The previous post in this blog was The game before the games. The next post in this blog is In Portland, the "creative class" does the math. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Bush's last week

They're finally admitting to torture.

Comments (15)

He even admitted that there were no WMDs in Iraq.

Reading the whole article helps. When the interrogation/torture happened what was done was permissible at that time. After 5 reviews the actions were considered lawful by the Pentagon. In 2005 they rewrote the rule book and under the new standards what had been done was found to be torture after another review of the case.

Hate it when news makes you dig to find the pertinent information. If you read just the first part like most people do the article will mislead you.

Of course in today's critiqing of our country and military we're not talking about bamboo slivers under the fingernails or chained from a ceiling and beaten.
No, it's sleep deprivation, a cold prison cell, minor waterboarding and other coersion that has risen by partisen embellishement to the the level of severe torture. All with the drama, outrage and condemnation that would be merrited if there actually were some carve em up torture.

Oh the horror!

I suspect nothng will change but the drama and condemnation with the Obama administration. Some coercion will remain neecessary. It just won't be demogogued in public by political adversaries.

The sad thing is, they probably have enough to try him legitimately in a civilian court and put him away for life....but because they went all 24 on the guy...they wrecked their case. Classic. The bush guys had a chance to legally prosecute a real terrorist and they screwed it up.

This screw up should be enough reason alone to finally shut the frack up the torture enablers and apologists.

But torture always works on the TV shows. Answer that, you liberal terrorist apologists.

They didn't give him a Starbucks latte and a feather-top mattress? Then in the minds of liberals, it's torture.

When the interrogation/torture happened what was done was permissible at that time. After 5 reviews the actions were considered lawful by the Pentagon.

breaking news: torture has not been "legal" since before WW II. the Pentagon saying it is doesn't make it so.

Query: You fans of torture. Do you adhere to the "Golden Rule"?
Then justify torture under that philosophy.
Do to others that which they might do to you? The "Brass Knuckle Rule" Yeah, thats the ticket.

"breaking news: torture has not been "legal" since before WW II. the Pentagon saying it is doesn't make it so."

Actually, it's ONLY illegal to 'torture' uniformed combatants. These guys aren't (never were) uniformed combatants.

To Genop - "Do you adhere to the "Golden Rule"? Then justify torture under that philosophy."

What they do to our men is worse than torture, it's beyond barbaric. And no, that is NOT why it's done, but when information is needed ... I don't have a problem with the 'torture' that was inflicted, as I don't really consider it torture (cutting off fingers and toes, cutting out tongues like the muslim extremists do - THAT is torture).

It's a question of perspective. If someone was doing it to you, I believe you would consider it torture.

And I don't believe the golden rule question has been answered. If it's OK for us to engage in torture, justifying it by saying that the people we torture (or use uber Geneva Convention extreme interrogation tactics on) aren't uniformed soldiers, then is it OK for others to do so, too, to our ambassadors, contractors or agents?

And by "they" are you talking about the government of Iraq or extremists who do not represent it? That's one of the problems with a preemptive strike against something like "terror" or a group like "Al Quaeda" rather than a conventional, declared war against another country.

Things tend to get muddy.

This a** has been so bad for this country and the planet. He will go down with Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter & Nixon as one of the worst if not THE worst Pres of all time. The best was when larry lame King asked laura Bush if it made the President upset when Obama was blasting him on the campaign trail...Laura said "it bothered me, but George does not watch the news"


"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.

"We tortured ...."

It wasn't so much what you'd think of as (air quotes) 'torture' (air quotes), and mostly just simple medical experiments. On humans. Guinea pig humans, just to work the bugs out and gets some feedback from the research (air quotes).

Now we know what works. You're next.

NORTHCOM Ready To Implement Martial Law, Published on 02-09-2008

USNORTHCOM recently announced on their official web site that they are ready to implement martial law. In a press release, the military command stated that the organization is ready to respond to any homeland defense or civil support mission requirement. Considering that George W. Bush has signed a directive making the President a dictator over continuity of government operations in the case of a catastrophic emergency, any homeland defense or civil support mission requirement would include the implementation of martial law. Below [at link] is the full press release which contains all sorts of wonderfully crafted politically correct language from their PR people that attempts to convince us that the use of the military domestically for all declared emergencies is perfect acceptable.

That is soooo 'last year' (air quotes). This is this year:

Today's News, January 14, 2009, Bush declares a state of emergency in the District of Columbia for inauguration. FEMA will be running the show.

... pointing to this massmind 'News' report: MSNBC.msn.COM/id/28650363

Speaking of bamboo under the fingernails and such ... Remember how this whole thing started 8 years ago when our super-spiffy top secret war-spy plane crash landed in China and the 11 crewmen were captured and held for ... oh, what, like 5 days or something, and then China let them go or something, and told Dunce the Dancing Drunken Chimp to send a cargo carrier to haul our sorry wreckage out of their country. Oo-oo~oo, you can just hear the brave illegal airmen screaming lungs out as each bamboo sliver is slowly twisted beneath the nail on each hog-tied finger and toe ... with pliers ... while the bamboo burns on fire.

And now, so soon, it's time to step away from his jeering public, and out of the slimelight, and get Dunce the Dancing Drunken Chimp paired up with his custodial Organ Grinder for the rest of his days.

Imagine living in a culture in which human life is only revered to the extent it exists to transport explosives into crowded venues. A culture in which your ticket to salvation is death. How would the threat of torture - possibly death- influence the likelihood that you might provide useful information in response to such inhumane treatment?
Imagine instead being removed from your culture and placed in a prison where you were treated with respect and dignity. Imagine further you were offered a chance to live in a culture where life was embraced as having meaning in the here & now. That the key to your freedom could be obtained by providing useful information to thwart death and destruction planned by your former comrades.
It is not surprising that the latter approach is much more effective in eliciting useful information from war criminals.

Best take on the torture admission is from Dahlia Lithwick in Slate:


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