Exactly. And when John McCain cries that Barack Obama is a socialist, he should be reminded that the Bush/Paulson "bailout/rescue" is nothing but corporate socialism.

Great, I dont want my earned money taken and "given" to anyone. If I choose to give it away, thats different.
Once again the middle class will get screwed. The whole system is hosed.

I read Paul Krugman's book "Conscience of a Liberal" last night -- it's quite good, particularly on showing how the relationship between economic inequality and political polarization is not some random fact of nature but, rather, was the goal of the movement conservatives who took over the GOP in order to roll back not just the New Deal but also the Progressive Era reforms (like the income tax and regulations of industry). It's a fast read, and very good.

Apparently Mr. McCain's major argument is that refundable tax credits are socialist.

Hmm. Isn't his health care plan a plan to tax benefits and return the money to the uninsured with a refundable tax credit?

It's amazing how much better one's argument can sound when you are not constrained by logic or consistency.

George,
I've got an autographed copy of that and talked to Paul Krugman outside the Bagdad Theater after his speech. During his remarks or when he's on TV he usually has a twinkle in his eye. He's aggravated for sure, but a little amused. When this latest crisis broke he had a wide-eyed look on TV like a man treading water who has just seen a large shark swim by. That scared me. He's been right about a lot of things including Alan Greenspan, although he's not crazy about Obama.
Still we're lucky to have him in the NYTimes - especially with the new loser Bill Kristol - and I was happy he won the Nobel Prize.

I dont want my earned money taken

Giving yourself the benefit of the doubt on all counts, I see, Jon, with the possible exception of the word "I", probably the only real pronoun in your reactionist vocabulary.

There’s nothing wrong with being a party of the moneyed class. Every nation has one. The astonishing thing about the Republicans is that their base is dominated by working-class people who will never benefit from their policies. There’s nothing you can do about the racists and the “earth is 6,000 years old” crowd, but surely the others can be convinced if you can get them away from Rush and Fox for a second. But then again talking about this stuff is apparently class warfare. Waging class warfare (trickle down etc) is OK but talk is dangerous.

Sherwood, even outside the religious nuthouse, these are thoughtless, self-absorbed morons who think that what they keep after taxes is "theirs" in spite of a $468Bn federal deficit this year financed in large part through excess FICA and Medicare contributions. In short, what they think is "theirs" is really OURS. Calling "class warfare" is an admission that they have no good argument for themselves.

It's not "OURS" until the tax code says so. Don't be so grabby, it doesn't come off well at all.

Well Allan, if its not mine to use or keep, then why should I bother going to work every day?
I guess could just sit home and collect a check from the gubmint?
Maybe we could get a "fridge full of beer," a "pocket full of pot" and cable TV added to the Bill of Rights?

Don't be so grabby, it doesn't come off well at all.

My point exactly.

Jon, millions go to work every day so that their FICA deductions can line your pocket. Why? Because you're so smart and successful, I guess.

No, it's not.

Is so.

:)

"about the Republicans is that their base is dominated by working-class people who will never benefit from their policies."

This guy gets it all wrong with his trying to describe anything Republican but there it is folks. The difference between a liberal Democrat and conservative Republican.

The liberal thinks government is for benefitting people (in ever increasing entitled ways while the Republican thinks government is should perform core functions and stay out of our way.

Tex,

"never benefit from their policies" could be accurately rewritten as "willingly bend over and pretend the bible doesn't forbid sodomy."

Ya'll realize that if more Republicans voted Democrat more of us, everyone, could get paid by the government instead of paying taxes. But they are too stupid?

That's a question.
Just stop the wars and give the money to people. :)

I love when liberals try to tell us yolkal conservatives that raising our taxes will benefit the little folk. Obama wants to raise taxes on the 'wealthy' and small businesses and funnel that money in the form of welfare checks to the lower and middle class who pay zero in income tax now. And he thinks that forcing these small businesses that employ those lower and middle class individuals to fork over their meager profits will stimulate jobs and economic growth how?

I'm all for a tax cut, but handing out checks to those that pay nothing IS socialism at its core.

So Joe the plumber claims that Obama's plan to raise the top marginal rate by 4% will spoil his chances of buying a business that provides him a net taxable income of $270,000 a year. Leaving aside Joe's credibility, Obama's 4% increase on the excess over $250,000 - or $20,000 -amounts to a whopping $800.

Obama blew it by saying "share the wealth" when he just as well could have said "share the tax burden" as Warren Buffet did when he compared his secretary paying income and payroll taxes at a 34% rate while he pays about 18%.

And McCain and Lars use Obama's throw away comment to label his tax policy as "redistributing the wealth" (McCain) and "Marxist" (Lars).

Forcefeed the bulls and pass the ammunition.

"... on showing how the relationship between economic inequality and political polarization is not some random fact of nature but, rather, was the goal of ...."

George, in a main respect, monied disparity qua politick classification, (indeed not some random artifact), is not even a deliberated and plotted "goal," achieved of some or any who pretend themselves to be devising the mad scheme. Rather instead, "economic inequality and political [infra-structured] polarization" always and only appear simultaneously, in tandem, each 'causes' the other inherently -- like two sides of the same coin. The imbalance of one is the imbalance of the other.

Krugman's a little short of, and pulls his punches at, reaching such an inevitable conclusion; (or gets it but holds back presenting it in print for all to get). However, Canadian philosopher John Ralston Saul and California hedge fund manager Andrew Lahde, speaking to and through Chris Hedges' Pulitzer prose, do say it and does present it.

Here: The Idiots Who Rule America, By Chris Hedges, October 21, 2008.

Democracy is not an outgrowth of free markets. Democracy and capitalism are antagonistic entities. Democracy, like individualism, is not based on personal gain but on self-sacrifice. A functioning democracy must defy the economic interests of elites on behalf of citizens.

Crisis Allows Us to Reconsider Left-wing Ideas, By P Gillespie, October 21, 2008, from "The Irish Times."

The Rules Are Set in Stone For the Rabble, By Peter Offermann, October 22, 2008.

Wall Street's 'Disaster Capitalism for Dummies' -- 14 reasons Main Street loses big while Wall Street sabotages democracy, By Paul B. Farrell, October 22, 2008, from "MarketWatch' in ARROYO GRANDE, Calif.

And more.

Bottom line: We must choose: Democracy or capitalism for us U.S. -- and the two are mutually exclusive.
Moreover, IF we are able to choose, then it is democracy, and that's our choice de facto. And IF we don't get it together to choose, (or are prohibited any choice), then it is the other totalitarian condition by default, isn't it. (no question mark.)

---
Bill, you ought to know there has been a nationalist recall of worded statements containing both "Paul Krugman" and "Nobel Prize," since combining the two thoughts causes fascists' and LIARS heads to explode. It's some sort of binary weapon, like Super Glue, only it's Super Blooey.

Google gives the gargle of goofbrains in death throes, or you can hear it here, in Comment #13 - October 16th, 2008, 6:53 pm.

But to repeat my point to George, Krugman is awesome as far as he goes, but he stops short of saying full well the revolutionary truth: Live freely socialist or die enslaved capitalist.

the revolutionary truth: Live freely socialist or die enslaved capitalist.

Everyone has to serve somebody. How is depending on the government "living free"?

How is depending on the government "living free"?

Ask a Dane.

"Bottom line: We must choose: Democracy or capitalism for us U.S. -- and the two are mutually exclusive."

Absolutely wrong. In the US we are a Republic with leaders democratically elected. Our economic system is separate from the government subject to some government regulation and supervision.

We have a constitution, legislation and judicial precedents to guide us. Our morality and ethics in business, our social dealings and government are supposed to be guided by a social contract which is rapidly dissolving.