Oh, and get this -- now Tri-Met isn't going to pay any of the operating deficit of the thing. It's all going to come from the city. And where is the city going to get the money?
Smith... says no decision has been made on where the operational funds will come from.
Proponents "have a couple of years" to figure that out, he said.
Build it now, figure out if you can afford it later. This is too weird, even for Portland. And it's how you come in last in a six-way election.
Comments (21)
to be fair.
He came in last in a six-way election because Christopher Smith and Jeff Bissonette ran very similar campaigns with similar platforms and ended up splitting demographics such as "the bike vote." If either one of them hadn't run for office, I think the other would have given your boy Charles Lewis a run for the second spot.
To be fair none of the candidates have a clue on how to run a city efficiently including college drop-out Sam Adams. They only have big dreams of how to play with taxpayer money.
How will they pay for operating streetcars? Can you say more potholes and Sellwood Bridge collapsing?
There is this little thing called a "Local Improvement District". It is already in place (since about 2000)on the East Side; all mapped out and ready to go and it shows the percentages of the assesments that will be charged to each business along the entire route for several blocks on either side of the tracks. So far those of us with commercial property have received 2 revised estimates of the tax. Each one significantly more than the previous one. So get ready for the small businesses to pay for it all, if we don't go broke first.
The big boys have already made their one time, flat rate deals with the city just like Homer did in the Pearl.
Of the many iffy transportation schemes in this city, extending the street car is the one that really drives me nuts.
Extending the MAX here and there isn't great either, but I can see what their reasoning is, since they really believe it's an actually commuter tool (debatable).
But extending the street car? Buses can go everywhere a street car can go, and are infinitely more flexible. Once you put in very expensive street car track, it's there. Why not run a bus down that same street. You might find it has poor ridership, and the route should be moved two streets over. Try doing that with a street car once you've laid the tracks.
Dear Deeds et al,
ALL of these arguments and more, were presented "way back when" at the beginning of the Pearl Street car fiasco. That was when some of poor suckers actually believed that "stakeholder in put" would count for something.
Forget it, don't waste your breath. The only way the street car will be axed is if the feds do not provide any money, and "Gor-dum" and Earl the Pearl have been "takin' care of bidness". Bring that pork on home boys! the developer weasels are waiting.
It's sad to see Blumenhauer get away with using the gasoline price spike as an excuse to build more trains. I've heard and read mass transit riders pay 20 percent or less of the total cost of their transit at the fare box. For MAX, it's probably even less what with all the free riders. So, according to Blumenhauer, the mass transit subsidies aren't high enough, and they need to be expanded. Very sad he can sell this line of jive.
Fixed transit on the east side is the key to uniting it with the west side and downtown proper. With the convention center, lloyd center are, rose garden, etc on the east side, not to mention acres of potential, this is an obvious move.
The guy who says "why not buses" is a *****. Seriously bro, get out of your little tiny world and realize that not only are there people who are paid to study transit corridors and identify ridership BEFORE it occurs (there are metrics available, one is bus ridership!) but there are also about a million people in this metro alone that understand that the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses. Nobody likes buses, they're bad for traffic, bad to rid, usually bad for noise and as you pointed out, they can move. Why invest in an area if the bus might just get canceled or move two blocks away one day.
There are many reasons to be suspicious, to question the PDX government in particular the new Mayor. Please remember, however, that you know very little and you've clearly made no effort to expand your horizons beyond your front porch. Kindly step out of the way and allow the rest of the world to take your city to the next level. We know you're scared but ultimately, we don't really care.
"the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses"
Bro, this is exactly why TriMet, FTA, etc. think spending money on the streetcar is a bad idea. They're in the business of moving people, not driving development.
The streetcar could easily turn out to be a fad development driver, anyway. What happens when the streetcar loses its luster as a hip way to get around?
History is littered with mistakes that happen when cities use grandiose transportation projects to drive development. If history is any guide, once COP makes enough of these mistakes, residents will overreact by rejecting progressive land use planning entirely.
I like that even TriMet staff is calling it out for lack of transportation value:
"Some staff members at TriMet have opposed using TriMet operating funds for the east-side loop, saying that the project has scant transportation benefits and is little more than a subsidy for developers."
Streetcar fanatics in the pockets of developers (Chris Smith): why not propose replacing a long-standing, heavily used bus route on the east side (say, #14), instead of this virtually useless little circulator loop that is a transportation solution in search of a problem?
If either one of them hadn't run for office, I think the other would have given your boy Charles Lewis a run for the second spot.
Streetcar Smith will never get elected to anything. If he thinks all his committee meeting time is going to pay off with some elective office or other, he needs to have coffee with Matt Hennessee.
Besides LIDs, Blumy and Smith will be proposing that parking meters be installed throughout the inner eastside and the Lloyd District and skim all the revenue for the trolley like they did in SoWhat. Then they will rob the right-of-way fees paid by utilities for all the city streets to add to the pot.
The trolley mafia is insidious, and they smile while doing it.
C. Smith, "Sherwood," "nonredneckuser," and company :
Are you aware of a non-biased, detailed, point by point analysis of just how much coal is burned by our streetcars, circa 2008, per passenger mile per year, as compared to diesel burned by buses ?
Do you have access to or are you aware of a study on how much this will increase over the next decade or two ?
Set aside the costs of the infrastructure itself for now, I'm curious here as to fuel burned per passenger mile per year.
Also, keep in mind that I stand to make a bunch of money off of this, as every statistic I can find indicates per-capita taxicab usage is far higher in every single city with large amounts of rail infrastructure. I'm framing the argument, for your benefit, in terms of your beloved "Peak Oil."
and realize that not only are there people who are paid to study transit corridors and identify ridership BEFORE it occurs (there are metrics available, one is bus ridership!)
yes, i know them well, bro. i know a bit about transportation and demand planning myself.
but there are also about a million people in this metro alone that understand that the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses.
really? every single person in Portland believes the Streetcar is superior to buses? wow. Go By Streetcar!
If what Streetcar Smith, Sam the Tram, David Bragdon and others really want is more condo blocks throughout the city, why don't they just skip the streetcar (and the sustainability rhetoric) and give a suitcase full of 20s to every willing developer.
This would be much cheaper (and probably more effective).
nonredneckuser, yes, PDC, PDOT are great at studing "transit corridors and identifying transit ridership BEFORE it occurs", like you wrote-not. Their studies that SoWhat would have 40% transit usage for all trips of the district was merely a stretch to allow development to occur in SoWhat before any transportation improvement had to be constructed. They knew there was no funding for even the projects required even if 40% transit usage was achieved.
We are now close to a $390 MILLION dollar shortfall for the identified transportation projects just for those to be partially paid by SoWhat TIF dollars. This amount doesn't even include other projects that PDOT has more recently identified as associated with SoWhat development that is needed to make the district work that can't be financed with TIF dollars because they are outside the boundaries but affect the immediate central city area.
If you are in the "transportation study" industry, how do you pardon this and other transportation planning fiascos that have resulted from PDOT and other regional agencies?
give a suitcase full of 20s to every willing developer.
This certainly would be cheaper in the long run, but it doesn't siphon enough money off to all their little crony friends for Streetcar construction. And it helps aid their whole "sustainability" guise. What nonsense.
The streetcar is such a joke. When I was going to PSU, I used to ride the MAX Blue Line in from Hillsboro and catch the Streetcar down to campus. I eventually figured out it was quicker (15-20 minutes!) to walk from Goose Hollow, especially since the Streetcar loved to just randomly sit half-a-block from the 11th and Taylor stop with its flashers on for 15 minutes. I speculated that it may have been that the little thing ran out of steam going up that tiny little hill. Go By Streetcar!
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 21
At this date last year: 52
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (21)
to be fair.
He came in last in a six-way election because Christopher Smith and Jeff Bissonette ran very similar campaigns with similar platforms and ended up splitting demographics such as "the bike vote." If either one of them hadn't run for office, I think the other would have given your boy Charles Lewis a run for the second spot.
Posted by Aaron | July 3, 2008 7:54 AM
"to be fair."
To be fair none of the candidates have a clue on how to run a city efficiently including college drop-out Sam Adams. They only have big dreams of how to play with taxpayer money.
How will they pay for operating streetcars? Can you say more potholes and Sellwood Bridge collapsing?
Posted by Steve | July 3, 2008 8:26 AM
There is this little thing called a "Local Improvement District". It is already in place (since about 2000)on the East Side; all mapped out and ready to go and it shows the percentages of the assesments that will be charged to each business along the entire route for several blocks on either side of the tracks. So far those of us with commercial property have received 2 revised estimates of the tax. Each one significantly more than the previous one. So get ready for the small businesses to pay for it all, if we don't go broke first.
The big boys have already made their one time, flat rate deals with the city just like Homer did in the Pearl.
Posted by portland native | July 3, 2008 8:37 AM
Scant transportation benefits.
Posted by James | July 3, 2008 9:01 AM
Of the many iffy transportation schemes in this city, extending the street car is the one that really drives me nuts.
Extending the MAX here and there isn't great either, but I can see what their reasoning is, since they really believe it's an actually commuter tool (debatable).
But extending the street car? Buses can go everywhere a street car can go, and are infinitely more flexible. Once you put in very expensive street car track, it's there. Why not run a bus down that same street. You might find it has poor ridership, and the route should be moved two streets over. Try doing that with a street car once you've laid the tracks.
Posted by Deeds | July 3, 2008 9:29 AM
Dear Deeds et al,
ALL of these arguments and more, were presented "way back when" at the beginning of the Pearl Street car fiasco. That was when some of poor suckers actually believed that "stakeholder in put" would count for something.
Forget it, don't waste your breath. The only way the street car will be axed is if the feds do not provide any money, and "Gor-dum" and Earl the Pearl have been "takin' care of bidness". Bring that pork on home boys! the developer weasels are waiting.
Posted by portland native | July 3, 2008 11:09 AM
It's sad to see Blumenhauer get away with using the gasoline price spike as an excuse to build more trains. I've heard and read mass transit riders pay 20 percent or less of the total cost of their transit at the fare box. For MAX, it's probably even less what with all the free riders. So, according to Blumenhauer, the mass transit subsidies aren't high enough, and they need to be expanded. Very sad he can sell this line of jive.
Posted by Bob Clark | July 3, 2008 11:33 AM
Fixed transit on the east side is the key to uniting it with the west side and downtown proper. With the convention center, lloyd center are, rose garden, etc on the east side, not to mention acres of potential, this is an obvious move.
The guy who says "why not buses" is a *****. Seriously bro, get out of your little tiny world and realize that not only are there people who are paid to study transit corridors and identify ridership BEFORE it occurs (there are metrics available, one is bus ridership!) but there are also about a million people in this metro alone that understand that the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses. Nobody likes buses, they're bad for traffic, bad to rid, usually bad for noise and as you pointed out, they can move. Why invest in an area if the bus might just get canceled or move two blocks away one day.
There are many reasons to be suspicious, to question the PDX government in particular the new Mayor. Please remember, however, that you know very little and you've clearly made no effort to expand your horizons beyond your front porch. Kindly step out of the way and allow the rest of the world to take your city to the next level. We know you're scared but ultimately, we don't really care.
Posted by nonredneckuser | July 3, 2008 1:46 PM
Thank you for your last comment on this blog.
Ironic that you're posting from Kimpton Hotels.
Posted by Jack Bog | July 3, 2008 2:56 PM
"the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses"
Bro, this is exactly why TriMet, FTA, etc. think spending money on the streetcar is a bad idea. They're in the business of moving people, not driving development.
The streetcar could easily turn out to be a fad development driver, anyway. What happens when the streetcar loses its luster as a hip way to get around?
History is littered with mistakes that happen when cities use grandiose transportation projects to drive development. If history is any guide, once COP makes enough of these mistakes, residents will overreact by rejecting progressive land use planning entirely.
Posted by James | July 3, 2008 3:19 PM
I like that even TriMet staff is calling it out for lack of transportation value:
"Some staff members at TriMet have opposed using TriMet operating funds for the east-side loop, saying that the project has scant transportation benefits and is little more than a subsidy for developers."
Streetcar fanatics in the pockets of developers (Chris Smith): why not propose replacing a long-standing, heavily used bus route on the east side (say, #14), instead of this virtually useless little circulator loop that is a transportation solution in search of a problem?
Posted by Steve R. | July 3, 2008 4:04 PM
If either one of them hadn't run for office, I think the other would have given your boy Charles Lewis a run for the second spot.
Streetcar Smith will never get elected to anything. If he thinks all his committee meeting time is going to pay off with some elective office or other, he needs to have coffee with Matt Hennessee.
Posted by Jack Bog | July 3, 2008 4:39 PM
HEY EARL!
How about pulling a new Sellwood Bridge out of the federal tooth fairy hat?
Posted by Oh my | July 3, 2008 7:50 PM
NONREDNECKUSER:
Don't tax me BRO! Not for a streetcar that's slower than a speedwalking grannie.
Posted by Oh my | July 3, 2008 7:52 PM
"Ironic that you're posting from Kimpton Hotels."
Gee, how can Chris Smith afford a Kimpton Hotel on his computer tech salary?
Posted by Steve | July 3, 2008 8:23 PM
Besides LIDs, Blumy and Smith will be proposing that parking meters be installed throughout the inner eastside and the Lloyd District and skim all the revenue for the trolley like they did in SoWhat. Then they will rob the right-of-way fees paid by utilities for all the city streets to add to the pot.
The trolley mafia is insidious, and they smile while doing it.
Posted by Lee | July 3, 2008 9:19 PM
C. Smith, "Sherwood," "nonredneckuser," and company :
Are you aware of a non-biased, detailed, point by point analysis of just how much coal is burned by our streetcars, circa 2008, per passenger mile per year, as compared to diesel burned by buses ?
Do you have access to or are you aware of a study on how much this will increase over the next decade or two ?
Set aside the costs of the infrastructure itself for now, I'm curious here as to fuel burned per passenger mile per year.
Also, keep in mind that I stand to make a bunch of money off of this, as every statistic I can find indicates per-capita taxicab usage is far higher in every single city with large amounts of rail infrastructure. I'm framing the argument, for your benefit, in terms of your beloved "Peak Oil."
Posted by Cabbie | July 4, 2008 1:19 AM
The guy who says "why not buses" is a *****.
thanks, bro.
Seriously bro, get out of your little tiny world
size doesn't matter, bro.
and realize that not only are there people who are paid to study transit corridors and identify ridership BEFORE it occurs (there are metrics available, one is bus ridership!)
yes, i know them well, bro. i know a bit about transportation and demand planning myself.
but there are also about a million people in this metro alone that understand that the FIXED INFRASTRUCTURE of a streetcar is superior in terms of driving development than buses.
really? every single person in Portland believes the Streetcar is superior to buses? wow. Go By Streetcar!
Posted by ecohuman.com | July 4, 2008 9:08 AM
If what Streetcar Smith, Sam the Tram, David Bragdon and others really want is more condo blocks throughout the city, why don't they just skip the streetcar (and the sustainability rhetoric) and give a suitcase full of 20s to every willing developer.
This would be much cheaper (and probably more effective).
Posted by MJ | July 4, 2008 10:30 AM
nonredneckuser, yes, PDC, PDOT are great at studing "transit corridors and identifying transit ridership BEFORE it occurs", like you wrote-not. Their studies that SoWhat would have 40% transit usage for all trips of the district was merely a stretch to allow development to occur in SoWhat before any transportation improvement had to be constructed. They knew there was no funding for even the projects required even if 40% transit usage was achieved.
We are now close to a $390 MILLION dollar shortfall for the identified transportation projects just for those to be partially paid by SoWhat TIF dollars. This amount doesn't even include other projects that PDOT has more recently identified as associated with SoWhat development that is needed to make the district work that can't be financed with TIF dollars because they are outside the boundaries but affect the immediate central city area.
If you are in the "transportation study" industry, how do you pardon this and other transportation planning fiascos that have resulted from PDOT and other regional agencies?
Posted by Lee | July 5, 2008 12:31 PM
give a suitcase full of 20s to every willing developer.
This certainly would be cheaper in the long run, but it doesn't siphon enough money off to all their little crony friends for Streetcar construction. And it helps aid their whole "sustainability" guise. What nonsense.
The streetcar is such a joke. When I was going to PSU, I used to ride the MAX Blue Line in from Hillsboro and catch the Streetcar down to campus. I eventually figured out it was quicker (15-20 minutes!) to walk from Goose Hollow, especially since the Streetcar loved to just randomly sit half-a-block from the 11th and Taylor stop with its flashers on for 15 minutes. I speculated that it may have been that the little thing ran out of steam going up that tiny little hill. Go By Streetcar!
Posted by Alex | July 5, 2008 1:35 PM