I believe Obama supports a U.S military role in Afganistan, and has even spoken of a more concerted drive into Pakistan. If I am not mistaken there are a number of other European countries with military contribution to the ousting of Taliban in Afganistan.

As for Iraq, the U.S Senate, including most democrats voted for a number of reasons, not just WMD, to authorize the military invasion. For instance, Senator Harry Reid made the pronouncement Sadam and Iraq had broken the Gulf War I agreement and a state of war already existed between the U.S and Iraq. Since the Iraq war, Libya has become less adversial and more lately France has become less critical of U.S positions.

Further back in time,
If I recall correctly it was two donkey presidents who turned up the stakes and put the military into Vietnam.

So, maybe you should think about taking down your Obama banner and putting up the McCain banner. McCain actually has had some experience with torture.

Not a chance. I have to look my kids in eye, and leaving the country in hands like Bush's (which is basically what McCain's are) makes that impossible.

We got our eye for an eye from 9/11, several times over. It's time to stop behaving like animals now.

A poll of 66 Multnomah county residents shows that 98% support Barak Obama, and 2% support Ron Paul.

Not entirely off topic, but I wonder why Jack never posted a link to this?:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-kirchick16-2008jun16,0,7766785.story

Er, maybe because I'm not gullible enough to believe everything I read in the New Republic?

"We're not liars, just stupid!" That's the best possible spin that can be put on the Bush years, and it's not true.

Being this is the "Christian Government ", one must wonder where this Neanderthal social disorder comes from. Cruelty seems to be the mantle of this administration along with theft of the treasury and escaping from serving for the rich and powerful.
Historically, this era will be the subject of study for millenniums.

We got our eye for an eye from 9/11, several times over. It's time to stop behaving like animals now.

How true.

Further back in time,
If I recall correctly it was two donkey presidents who turned up the stakes and put the military into Vietnam.

We're not talking about the big mistakes from 40-45 yrs ago, how about the world class cluster of the here and now.

McCain is pro-war and pro-staying in Iraq DESPITE having been tortured. What does that tell you about him?

McCain, there aren't enough eyes and teeth to settle his score.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell042908.php3

So there are people in the world who hate the USA - so, I don't really care. There are several countries that I can think of that I'm not terribly fond of either. We have the resources to be able to be rather self-sustainable if we'd just tell the greenies to take a long walk off a short pier (if you think I'm not thinking right, look at what Denmark has done - afterall, we brought that guy here to tell us how we need to be green like Denmark - so lets start drilling off shore like Denmark). This is still the greatest country in the World.

"We got our eye for an eye from 9/11."

Actually, and in fact, we 'got' our eye (actually -- just that stubborn fact thing again -- our 1-plus million innocent pairs-of-eyes now closed for eternity, and 1-plus million pairs more starving, diseased, child's and baby's soon-to-close, and 4-plus million pairs-of-eyes gone in flight, never again to see the land and beloved of their birth and rightful ... but, hey, who's counting) for NOTHING, none of 'them' took any of our eye in Nine-Eleven Op.

Nor is there any evidence 'they' did. Yet is there substantial evidence and conviction-sealing proof that 'they' did not.

Less than mote and entirely chimera were 'they' in our eye, and we have plucked out millions of 'them' and theirs for our delusions and laud of LIARS lying to us.

And we still have the plank remaining in our eye and the entire bush of its being crafted ... "from 9/11."

... and, Jack, what's your vote for Senator being determined by ... plaid shirted-ness?

Senate blocks debate of clean energy tax credits, Posted ... June 17, 2008 -- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Tuesday blocked debate of a bill to offer about $17.7 billion in tax incentives for consumers to build renewable energy sources like windmills and solar arrays, and buy plug-in cars that run on electricity rather than gasoline. ...

Let's see, when it comes time to decide whether to spend money on healing people or on killing them, do I want a D or an R casting the vote?

Surely there can't be that many people around the world, fellow humankind earthlings, who hate us. Just those living where our bloated-gross military invaded, massacred some thousands of innocents in the way, by the way, (as another roadside amusement attraction), then (mis)appropriated the natural resources of the land, and the land, and maintain military 'outpost' basings there today.

Oh, like, I don't know, say Mexico, perhaps?

Or, maybe the only folks anywhere who hate us are the ones identified and targetted in their homes looked down on by our spy satellites.

I like the part where "We have the resources ... if we'd just tell the greenies to take a long walk ...."

So, if we do NOT have "the resources" then it's because we are victim of meany "greenies" I suppose.

Logically, and in empirical evidence, if there is oil offshore, Big Oil companies grabbed it, held it down and drilled it dry, as long as there was a fast buck in it, and NObody stopped them. If they didn't, or don't, ravage it -- offshore or Iraq or anywhere, then that totally means there is no tar there.

Which is easy for sensibility to say, and yet in lots of places impossible for fear's ears to hear.

The Ups and Downs of Giving a Peak Oil Presentation, Posted by Phil Hart on June 16, 2008

Since returning to Melbourne two years ago after working in the North Sea oil and gas industry, I've given a peak oil presentation to varied audiences on average once a month. They have all been positive experiences (some more so than others) and at least help me feel that I am doing something constructive. ... TOD reader Ralph started first time with a tougher audience:

"Recently ... to give a talk to the local Rotary Club ... I decided to throw away my chances of winning friends and being the life of the party- and talked about Peak Oil. ... I think the whole issue of how best to strategically present the PO [Peak Oil] story for maximum persuasive impact is worth discussing on TOD [The Oil Drum .COM]."

116 comments ...

totoneila June 16 - 6:52pm - "Great thread idea! Kudos! When I encounter a young, working adult stranger [I'm 53], I need only seconds before moving along: Thus, I prefer the full-frontal, 2X4 approach. ..."

LoveOregon June 16 - 7:07pm - "Having given a dozen or so similar talks to undergraduates as well as Lions, Rotary, etc., over the past two years, I agree - give it to them full force, but be sure to allow time for questions so they don't go away feeling yelled at and/or completely depressed. I find references to WWII helpful with somewhat older audiences. TOD has been a terrific resource - information and insights as well as great graphics."

Phil Hart June 16 - 8:44pm - "I use this joke with the right audience occasionally: 'Two economists find themselves locked in a basement. They're not sure what time it is, because it's dark and they can't read their watches. They think it's nearly dinner time, cause they're starting to feel hungry. But they're not worried; they are not starting to panic - because they know that their demand will create sandwiches for them!' More jokes here: ..."

And now a word, or 3 hours daily of words, from Rash Lamebrain's and LIARS Larson's good-buddy look-alike hate-alike talk-alike, Mr. Michael Reagan: "Let's stick grenades up the butts of their babies and kill their mothers."

Rightwing radio's and Michael Reagan's the THEY referred to with 'their babies' and 'their mothers', is NOT 'they' around the world who hate us, it IS 'they' Democrats Americans ... or 'greenies' Americans -- take your pick.

WE MUST STOP THIS MADNESS!, Diary by [70-yr-old] Wolfie, June 18, 2008 -- Radio anouncer allowed to act like this is nazi germany

rightwing radio Reagan advocates the mass murder of 9/11 Truthers. "We ought to find the people who are doing this, take them out and shoot them. Really. You take them out, they are traitors to this country, and shoot them. You have a problem with that? Deal with it. You shoot them. You call them traitors ...."

One more time around again LIARS band, the story of bubblewrapped news mindlessness, layer by layer, lie after lie.

First LIE example: (Source of all dated quotes "verbatim" is MediaMatters.ORG, except others noted. )

June 5 ... George Will noted that U.S. companies have not been permitted to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and asserted, "Drilling is underway 60 miles off Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with Cuba ...."

Monday, June 9 ...MSNBC's Brewer uncritically aired Bush's misleading assertion that ANWR, continental shelf drilling would "give this country a chance to help" with gas prices ... However, federal researchers have found that any benefit from the oil exploration Bush suggests would not impact the U.S. oil supply for at least a decade.

June 11 ... Cheney then made a similar claim about China drilling off the coast of Florida .... Cheney "cited his source as columnist George Will" [quoting AP].

June 12 Associated Press article reported that "Vice President Dick Cheney's office acknowledged on Thursday that he was mistaken ...." Cheney's office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred. "It is our understanding that, although Cuba has leased out exploration blocks... no Chinese firm is drilling there," according to the statement.

Recapping: LIAR George Will was the source for LIAR Dick Cheney.

June 12 and 13 (Friday), LIARS Larson says, and airs several callers repeating, 'other countries are drilling and taking our oil off our coast, and environmental liberals are blocking us.'

(Monday) ... June 16 edition of his nationally syndicated radio program, Sean Hannity claimed, "[W]e've got China, you know, joining with Cuba, they're drilling 60 miles off our shores of Florida."

June 17 ... Will issued a correction ... "I stated that China, in partnership with Cuba, is drilling for oil 60 miles from the Florida coast. ... no Chinese company has been involved in ... oil exploration that close to the United States."

Bojacks's blog: Native Oregonian | June 17, 2008 3:56 PM "We have the resources ... so lets start drilling off shore like Denmark"

June 17 edition of MSNBC Live ... Frank Donatelli was identified by anchor and NBC News foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell only as the "deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee and a John McCain supporter." Mitchell did not note that, prior to his post at the RNC, Donatelli was a registered lobbyist for energy sector clients ExxonMobil Corp. and Dominion Resources.
MITCHELL: Well, how does he straddle this issue of "you can have states permit offshore drilling," but he's still against drilling in Alaska. And he's -- doesn't he risk offending the environmentalists and not really satisfying the oil industry?
DONATELLI: Well, Andrea, I guess I would say that it's a balanced plan, but we have a crisis. We have $4 gasoline, heading even higher, and we have to do something about that. That's impacting our economy; it's hurting families. And what Sen. McCain has said for a long time is, in the long run, we need different sources of energy. We need green and new technologies. On the other hand, we have a short- and medium-term problem, and part of the solution there is additional drilling to find additional oil and gas supplies in the United States. And the Outer Continental Shelf is the way to get some of those supplies to market fairly quickly [WTF?]. I would just note that it would require the concurrence of the states to drill off of their shores, but if you incentivize the states properly, this is a potential source to moderate gas prices.

Recapping: McCain says 'no ANWR drilling,' McCain says 'green sources of energy,' McCain says 'Continental Shelf drilling,' says the Republicans' Exxon lobbyist, and does NOT say it takes at least ten years from now to explore, drill, refine, and truck it to a gas pump for your fill-up.

June 18 -- Bush urges Congress to end ban on offshore drilling, By Sheryl Gay Stolberg, International Herald Tribune -- WASHINGTON: ... Bush urged ... to end a federal ban on offshore oil drilling and open a portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for oil exploration, asserting that those steps and others would lower gasoline prices and "strengthen our national security." ... Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic majority leader, reacted quickly and angrily to the president's remarks. "This week's flip-flop on offshore oil drilling by President Bush and Senator John McCain is nothing more than a cynical campaign ploy that will do nothing to lower energy prices ...." The president's move to end the ban on offshore drilling reverses his longstanding position on the issue.

Bush LIAR wraps the bubble lie starting here-we-go 'round again.

---
Second LIE example:

Sept. 20, 2001 -- LIAR Bush: Americans are asking "Why do they hate us?"

No, LIAR Bush, absolutely no American asked that. It does not logically explain some 'they' would kill themselves committing suicide, by hijacking planes or die trying, crashing into buildings, breaking stuff, killing some (officially) unempowered people, all while (in advance) knowing well it is a mathematical certainty that it is a physical impossibility for an airplane crash to knock down the buildings, let alone impossible to implode any. Who 'they' hates us? Rightwing wacko's claim they hate "lib's" -- here's hoping they hate and hate so strong to start committing rightwing suicide, as that seems logical to teach those "lib's" a lesson.

Lies go 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round ... and 'round the world, in 7 years the truth still can't even its boots on, to run down and stomp on the lies.

June 16, 2008, Bojack's blog, 'Motivation' "... get us out of [taxation funding torturers] ... in dealing with the many people around the world who hate us."

God bless you, Jack Bogdanski.

For your bandwidth charity to me and many others.

For your good mind and sensible judgments He has made in you, to grow wise in information.

Being this is the "Christian Government "

Call me a literalist, but these folks are not Christians. Have you ever noticed that when these folks quote the bible, they overwhelmingly quote from the Old Testament? I'm sorry, but the Old Testament is not the teachings of Christ.

The Old Testament is about a nasty, brutish, vengeful God; the New Testament is about a loving, compassionate God. As George Lakoff and others have noted, people choose their religion based on their worldview (same as they choose their politics). So, these people choose a religion that reinforces their nasty, brutish, and vengeful worldview.