One pastor: married the Obama couple, 20 year close personal relationship with Barack, his spirtual advisor, mentor, Barack titled his book after pastor's sermon.

Other pastor: lives in different state, simply endorsed McCain.

Yeah, Jack, those are the same thing.

Yup, either equally relevant or equally irrelevant. You guys started this -- you pick.

Totally different kettle of fish. The Wright "issue" gives Obama critics headroom for racist opposition to his candidacy. Moreover, Wright's message is one full of unwelcome truths about American society, whereas Hagee is just a nut job.

Yeh right, like the USA creating the aids virus to infect blacks.

You know, Jim, many black people believe this. Their beliefs are based on a history of mistreatment of blacks up to and including murder at the hands of our government (such as, for example, the episode at the Tuskeegee Institute). That history includes a lot of history of white fundamentalists viewing AIDS as justly inflicted punishment for black promiscuity and drug use. Do you know for a fact, Jim, that blacks were not infected intentionally? Or is it part of your core beliefs as a white person?

They're both flaky, but neither one would have had any real influence in either candidate's administration, even if they hadn't been called out.

I'm with Rob on this one, Hagee isn't your ticket out of the Wright mess. Though, I do believe Hagee may be a bit more influential to McCain than just another endorser.

Hagee said that Hitler and the Nazis were doing the will of God?
I'm no theologian but it sounds like somebody may have flunked Sunday
School.

Rob: Remember that McCain solicited Hagee's endorsement. That's a closer connection than you imply.

Hagee is to Wright what a Brad Pitt fan is to Angelina Jolee. Great comparison, Jack.

I just heard McCain on TV saying something like "I can no more disown Pastor Hagee than I can disown my white grand mother. Pastor Hagee is kind of like the screwed up, crazy but loveable Uncle." It was the most memorable speech I have ever heard on race relations in America. It should be required listening for all school kids. It brought tears to my eyes.

Maybe next week McCain will throw the Pastor under the bus.

Do you guys/gals really want to hear Michelle Obama preaching down to us for the next 4 to 8 years about all her perceived injustices? I just know she's going to be rallying behind reparations once she gets in office. I'd rather have Cindy as first lady. She just wants people to have a beer. This seems more friendly, American neighborliness, than the stuff Obama's wife is spewing.

If Obama were to dump his wife, I might get more interested in voting for him because he does give certain groups something they can hang their hat on, so to speak. If he can make some people feel more positive about themselves, that's not a bad thing at all. But his wife negates this positive in totality.

Do you guys/gals really want to hear Michelle Obama preaching down to us for the next 4 to 8 years about all her perceived injustices?

Or do you want 4 to 8 more years in Iraq?

Oh geeze Bob, that's bordering on a racist comment. I've never once heard Michelle Obama speak about reparations. I love my dad, he's a salty republican with a slight racist side, but he always defaults to reparations to 'scare' people away from electing blacks into power.

"If Obama were to dump his wife"

Good family values there man...glad to see the Repubs still protecting the sanctity of marriage, family, and life.

I'm waiting for Fox, CNN, CNBC and the rest to play those Hagee clips 24/7 for the next month or two and for the pundits to rain several plagues on McCain for associating with him.

Yeah, like that's gonna happen. Though if I had my own little 527, plenty of voters would see those clips.

Or maybe the two campaigns could call a truce: "I won't bash you for your preacher if you won't bash me for mine."

Bob Clark: I'd rather have Cindy as first lady. She just wants people to have a beer.

It's been brought up here before - this is exactly what we've had for the past seven years, and we won't survive another four of it. No thanks.

"If Obama were to dump his wife"

I can see how that would appeal to a Republican: McCain dumped his wife after she was horribly injured in a car accident for Cindy, a much younger and richer woman whose connections he used to launch a political career, and who still has not released her tax returns.

Not just McCain, but Reagan, Newt, etc. -- wife-dumping is apparently a very attractive quality to GOPer's.

Hagee and Wright are both dangerous, superstitious kooks who pressure weak-minded people to have imaginary conversations with invisible beings.

I think less of both McCain and Obama for associating themselves with such delusional self-righteous gas-bags.

I'm stuck on this Hagee/Hitler thing. Perhaps one of you pious types out there who put President Bush in office could clear it up for me: If Hitler was doing God's will does that mean Hagee thinks Hitler should go to heaven? I mean we all know God chose W to attack Iraq, right? And he's certainly going to heaven. If God chose W to attack Iraq and chose Hitler to attack the Jews, does that mean both these guys are godly, or can only W be godly? Let's be fair to W. He killed around a million people. That's an awful lot of God's will there.
Oh, and while you're explaining everything, how much is a gallon of gas in heaven right now?

"Yup, either equally relevant or equally irrelevant."

Hardly, Jack. When you attend a pastor's church for more than 10 years, and sit silently while he preaches racist hate against white people, it's relevant. It calls into question whether you're the kind of person we want leading this country.

While I'm not a big McCain fan (just another Republican thug, in my view), at least he had the balls to repudiate what "his" pastor was saying, something Obama has yet shown the backbone to do.

Obama's pastor: relevant.
McCain's pastor: irrelevant.

I can't believe you can't tell the difference.

Bill, I'm pretty positive W. isn't going to heaven, despite what God told him.

I can't believe you can't tell the difference.

I can't believe you voted for a monkey for President the last two times. So I guess we're even.

I thought you said we couldn't call him a monkey.

Seems most here are missing the point. It doesn't really matter who said what. The fact is, Barak Obama sat through years of racist, hateful sermons because he needed to be accepted into the Chicago african-american fold in order to gain their vote. Now that he's making waves nationally, he "inexplicably" repudiated Wright.

He's your typical politician -- hardly a harbinger of change.

Once Obama gets elected, at the very least you can expect our national debt to triple to $30 trillion. Even if he does (snicker) end the war in Iraq (snort)...

What's wrong with paying reparations? Why not - they'll be paid with the same worthless greenbacks we are using now - not a very expensive way to get Al Sharpton to shut up, I'm all for it.

Funny how these "conservatives" raise alarms about presidents from the Democratic party and the national debt. They should look at the historical numbers.

So true.

G. H. W. Bush: "Read My lips", then buckled and overspent big time.

G. W. Bush: "Compassionate Conservative", then buckled and overspent big time.

On spending, the history shows that they are very good at it. But at least one Bush had a Democratic Congress to blame for much of it.

"...I'd rather have Cindy as first lady. She just
wants people to have a beer..."

Yes, of course, as long as she's making a
nickle on every bottle sold. For them, the
way to greater wealth is to "make crazy" to
drive the public to drink all the more...to
cope with the unending madness!

So, yes...having a beer is the solution to
all this craziness...for THEM!

Let us sing all together now: "Ninty-nine bottles
of beer on the wall..."

"I can't believe you voted for a monkey for President the last two times. So I guess we're even."

Well, thanks, Jack, for that substantive and relevant comment. /sarcasm

You're the one who had to went ad hominem on me.

I could care less about the pastors. Neither could most people. But it gives you tighty righties something to prattle on about, other than the beating McCain and lots of Republican congresspeople are going to take in November. So I guess we'll talk about it.

But only Obama's pastor counts, right? The Democratic one. The black one.

"The black one."

When you can't win the debate, just call him a racist. Good job, Jack.

Stop insulting the monkeys...they are smarter than "w".
Cindy is scary; way too much like Barbie.

Butch,
As usual the right wing is trying to frame the issue to avoid having the American Public look at reality. Hagee offers a glimpse into the Evangelical End Times fans who are actively trying to get President Bush to invade Iran to fulfill their notions of Biblical prophesy. This group of doomsday merchants was vital to getting President Bush elected. They matter much more than Jeremiah Wright because we are currently on an all too familiar glide pattern that could lead to a military strike. The latest Osama tape came out right on cue. The saber rattling has been going on for some time.
If we happen to see a terrorist attack in the next few months that leads directly to a call to retaliate, don't believe it was real. It will probably be a false flag operation.
Another reason I know you're wasting your time with this Wright situation is because it would have hurt Barack Obama by now if it was going to hurt him. It's a diversion - a smoke screen and that's all the GOP has got after 7 years of stupid, incompetent leadership. How did you fall for this group, Butch? I really don't get that.
The rest of the American Public shouldn't be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on Butch's beloved heroes in the White House. I fear Cheney and Company are getting ready for one last serving of treachery, and this Hagee clown who believes Hitler was doing God's will, is right there urging them on.

As an independent, I'm critical of both parties. I just don't see how Obama is going to deliver on all his social programs without driving up the debt. Social spending is our highest expense, and it rises dramatically every year.

Remember, every year since 1969, congress has spent more than it took in -- regardless of the party in charge.

But hey, let's keep bickering about pastors, gays, reparations and gas. Y'know, the important stuff...

"stupid, incompetent leadership...."

Golly Bill, I'm still amazed at how these stupid and incompetent 'Chimps' are able to get away with such conspiracies like 9/11 and blowing up the levies in New Orleans.

Here is my conspiracy theory: Bill McDonald is really Tenskwatawa before he's had his five shots of espresso.....

"Remember, every year since 1969, congress has spent more than it took in -- regardless of the party in charge."

Ah, Congress bashing is back -- thanks 2006! We wondered where it had been. Expect to see the GOP rediscover its fondness for term limits soon as well.

Butch, we both know you're the one using the phony name. Did you admire Bob Dole? I enjoyed talking to him a couple of times. You should google what his former chief of staff thinks about 9/11.
No wait, maybe you better not. You're better off being oblivious.
I also don't appreciate you using the "chimps" in quotes like I said it. Standard GOP smear tactics.
Here's another tactic you used to use:
How did you fall for Cheney and Bush? See!!! I didn't think you could answer that!

This was just an example. Don't bother answering unless you want. By the way it was classic to make a joke that I'm not really Bill McDonald when you're not really Butch. I mean I just got through commenting about diversions. Don't you have any sense of irony?

When you can't win the debate

There's never any "debate" with you neocons. You have answers for everything. Which is why the United States is in the tank.

Oh...I've got a sense of irony alright. Irony like when the comedy writer around here can't detect when someone is being facetious. Didn't mean to set you off with the Tenskwatawa crack.

Butch,
I knew you were kidding around. That's why I wrote "it was classic to make a joke..."
But it's from the same tired playbook. I remember when I criticized the President for something, the standard response was, "Why do you hate the President so much?" instead of addressing the real problem.
Here the real problem is the influence of End Times advocates over President Bush because they want him to strike Iran - not for oil or interference in Iraq or any of the other excuses. They want us to strike Iran because they think it's in the Bible.
And one of the pastors involved is on record saying Hitler was doing God's will, which is why McCain finally dropped his endorsement today. The Hitler thing was a glimpse into this whole crazy circus that has helped guide our foreign policy - including the decision to strike Iraq.
I call the Bush administration dangerous and crazy for it - you can't stop defending it. But not with counterpoints - with diversionary jokes.
That could be because you're a fun-loving person, or it could be because trying to defend the Bush administration has become the biggest joke of all.

For what it's worth, Hagee was referring to Hitler as the catalyst for a Jewish state. It was not meant as a slam toward Judaism.

Hagee is a huge supporter of Israel and is far from an anti-Semite.

He may be a kook, but at least he didn't refer to one of the smartest, most admirable people out there as Condi-"skeeza" Rice.

For those who don't know, "skeeza" is slang for a whore.

You stay classy, Jeremiah.

"I remember when I criticized the President for something, the standard response was, "Why do you hate the President so much?" instead of addressing the real problem."

Bill, espousing crazy conspiracy theories as facts is not criticism or pointing out problems. You want me to address what you've said about the President? Alright : its hogwash.

Chris,
Yes, Hagee is a huge supporter of Israel except for one little thing: He wants to end life on earth with the End Times. He's only interested in Israel as a way to fulfill Biblical prophesy, and one of those is Armageddon.
And he's not content with letting these things just happen. He's made his interpretation as to what is required and he's trying to bring it about. That's why he wants us to invade Iran - so there will be one less thing on the list.
Yes, Hagee deeply supports Israel.
But support that includes annihilation of all life on earth - including life in Israel - is not really support at all.
And he's not even promising 40 virgins once we all die.