Kids make noise when playing ball and their parents drive cars.

I live on the border of the Hollywood and Grant Park neighborhoods and get both association newsletters. The Grant Park Neighborhood Association has been completely obstructionist about improvements not only at Fernwood, but at the Grant HS/Grant Park track as well. As my own kid uses these facilities, I am pretty unhappy about the GPNA. Their entire approach is NIMBY. With the field improvements, it's all about protecting their turf from those noisy kids and parents. Hello? You choose to live net to a school and then complain that kids and parents show up?

The GPNA folks were completely uninterested in taking a stand with the Hollywood folks several years ago when the initial plans for the Hollywood library building were unveiled. For those who forgot or never knew, the developer had cut a deal with Multnomah County and designed a building that grossly violated height zoning restrictions for the site. It was only neighborhood activism by many, including yours truly, that got the building size reduced. When some Hollywood folks went to a GPNA meeting and asked for their support, we were mooned. The GPNA folks talke the NIMBY approach to quite an extreme.

"No speakers, no lights, no concessions..." It sounds like they knew what to avoid if they weren't going to apply for BDS permits.

This is a fine example of City Bureaucrat powermongering in the extreme. Where's Handy Randy when we need him?

Mr. Gorbachev: TEAR DOWN THESE BLEACHERS!

Just another example of the city that works.

The answer is easy.
Turn it over to the PDC. Then what ever they decide it's a done deal and no one can get past their lawyers.

these folks are losers....but the real losers are the kids who cannot use the ball fields.....as Bugs Bunny has said
"What a buncha maroons"

Remind me never to move into any of those neighborhoods. What a bunch of first-class chumps. Serious losers. What the Hell is wrong with people. Waaaaaayyy to much navel gazing in those neighborhood associations.

I have lived in the Grant Park neighborhood for 20 years. I coached baseball, soccer and basketball for my two children as they were growing up and attending the local public schools, including Fernwood. (They are now in their 20's) We played many soccer and baseball games on the Fernwood fields. Some years the neighbors got together work parties on the weekend and, with rakes, shovels, sand, rototillers and lime, repaired the baseball fields. We never got permits and no one complained. We were being good neighbors.
The new improvements to the fields are a great addition to the neighborhood. I remember that field being like jagged concrete when my daughter first started playing 3 on 3 soccer on it. The renovations are a vast safety imprvement for the children.
I have also always loved walking or riding past that field in the spring and seeing all the kids and their parents doing the T ball shuffle, or playing little league baseball. It is a constant that announces spring is here. It's the kind of scene that makes the neighborhood a better place. It 's the kind of event that makes neighbors better neighbors, and gives the Grant neighborhood a better sense of shared community.
I was therefore shocked to see the unsigned (??) editorial in the Grant Park Neighborhood Association (GPNA) newsletter condemning the improvements because PPS and the neighbors who secured the private funding had not jumped through a bunch of technical land use loops in implementing modest improvements to baseball fields that have been there for decades. This is nonsense and a tyranny of the minority. GPNA does not reflect the views of the vast majority of of the Grant Park community on this subject, as well as the Grant High School field improvements. I would estimate that over 90% of the Grant residents are in favor of improvements that make better and safer playing fields for the neighborhood children. GPNA has come to over represent a strident minority view on these matters, based upon the (faulty) perception by adjacent landowners that these changes harm their property values. The opposite is probably more likely, but people are afraid of change. Regardless of that question, I think most people in the neighborhood probably think, as I do, that someone who chooses to buy a home next to a school or public park(as I once did myself), buys a home next to a public space dedicated to the betterment of the entire community, and not the private enjoyment of the private landowners who choose to live nearby. Kids make noise when they are having fun. Isn't that the point? Let's work this out so we can all go back to being good neighbors.
FREE THE FIELDS! BASEBALL NOT BARBED WIRE!

This is a fine example of City Bureaucrat powermongering in the extreme.

What makes you think the City initiated this blockade? Reading the newsletter, it sounds like the neighbors are pissed off about increased use, increased noise, and (*gasp*) the possibility of "future tournaments." Joel and Drew's comments seem to back this up.

I live a block from an elementary school. The sound of kids playing baseball (mostly t-ball) in the evenings and on weekends is one of the more pleasant sounds of summer.

I would guess that the school was there before some (maybe most) of those complaining. Besides that, if they are complaining about possibly more use and more noise sanctioned by PPS, how is that any different than a bunch of neighborhood kids playing a pick-up game without any sanction? It's a playground and ball field . . . that's what it's there for.

It is the stink of 'hit back' retaliation, trying to stop changes and progress(ivism) -- and retaliatory sabotage is the stink of rightwingy fascists.

The same as I was 'astro-blogized' in the commentary of All the Charged Negativity post and thread.

I don't know the players or scorecard in this Baseball Field of Screams, yet it looks exactly like the ManNix-ian maniacs (who greet every morning sunrise seething hot to find a way to stop, undo, and go backwards to a lost time before people wisely made land-use planning), took the (baseball) park as hostage -- thinking this is, "one of those 'liberal icons': kids at play!, let's see how they like it when land-use laws are used against them; THEN they'll be forced to repeal the damn thing."

And it sounds exactly like LIARS Larson instructions to sourpuss suckups.

Pin the purpose on the instigator, (just like seeing Nine-Eleven Op was invented before 2000 and made done by Bushbabies, not any fictitious 'fanatic religi-otes' ... ya' know, the Nine-Eleven Op (unsolved) Case detectives probably come in all partisan stripes, yet it is only and always the 'conservative' detectives who "can't think the rightwing government would massmurder its own people"); wake up!, wake up!, open eyes, people: see who is doing it, pin the purpose on the instigator, and understand why persons who got tricked and taken for a ride on the 'conservative' gallows-trumbul bandwagon, and call themselves GOP and follow hatetalk radio instructions, now stay low and lob anti-baseball brickbats and are embarrassed if not ashamed to have anyone know they are Republican.

We have to figure out, detective-like, who the instigator is in ALL these negative-going, social destructions because it ain't the kind of things the perp steps forward proud to be credited for. (So, for the baseball park, rightwing 'instructions' say, "We (editorially) urge you to tell PPS," and "go to ... members and let them know," all anonymous without fingerprints; whereas the time-tested procedure for democratic community consensus is canvassing a petition and everyone signing their 'John Hancocks' plain and legible.)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

It seems to me that the neighborhood association might be overreaching just a bit based on Article 1, Section 2c.

RE: "overeaching"
Hardly seems within the realm of "exclusively educational, scientific and charitable purposes only". I'd call it outright lobbying for the adjacent neighbors land use challenge. How do the kids get to vote?

Wow, only Tensk can segue a baseball diamond dispute into Lars Larson, Bush, and US government implication in 9-11.

The District went straight to building permit. Whether the District needs a land use review looks like it hinges on whether the they are increasing the "exterior improvement area" by more than 1,500 square feet.

Decide for yourself: the relevant Portland zoning code sections seem to be 33.110.100(B)(2)(a), uses in the zone, 33.815.040(B)(2), alterations to conditional uses, 33.910.030, the definition of exterior improvement.

And yes, this was triggered by a (anonymous) complaint to the City.

To each his own...

Miles likes "...The sound of kids playing baseball (mostly t-ball) in the evenings and on weekends is one of the more pleasant sounds of summer."

Tensqwat likes linking everything bad to Bush, LIARS, and now Mannix, all Republicans. BDS gone wild...

As for me, if I lived in Portland, I would like to hear the sound of squeaky bicycle brakes ridden by eco commuters, and the sound of squeaky wheels of grocery carts pushed by homeless people going to homeless camps, and the sound of protesters protesting whatever protest is in vogue that particular evening.

Alas, I don't live in Portland. Too bad for me.

Who put up the barbed-wire fence?

...and why - is there a safety hazard - or is to prove some point on the part of the GPNA? What civic-minded folks they must be to go to all this trouble to make sure that city bureaucracies get their poound of fish.

Altruism, no doubt.

Can't this all get ironed out without holding kids hostage?

...no Rodney King-ishness intended.

I called Fernwood and nobody there knows nuthin' - they referred me to PPS' Facilities Department - 503-916-3168

Only in Portland...

Maybe a little input by a coach from a visiting league, who played a few games as guest on this new field (including one last Saturday when it was shut down), will cool the rhetoric. The field was set in a new corner of the playground, simply too close to the neighbors' property lines. In one game we watched and heard a good dozen and a half foul balls go into those back yards and onto roofs. A distraught mother came out to wail that her 2-year-old couldn't play outdoors, and that a ball came near a window where her infant was sleeping. She was really angry at our nervous laughter whenever a batter fouled one back. To catch these, the backstop or some new fence on the property line would have to be 50 feet high or more. Say what you will about the neighborhood association, there's an unfortunate design flaw here.

RE: foul balls

My understanding of the above is that the design included netting above the fence line to prevent the foul ball problem (like at golf courses) but that the neighbor's complaint to code enforcement halted the completion of the project. Then the neighbors complained about foul balls that might not have been a problem if the netting had been allowed to go up. I don't know "Coach", I haven't seen the design, but maybe they should let them install the netting and play ball again on a temporary basis to see if it solves that porblem.

OK

PPS called me back and the concerns from neighbors are apparently legit. As "coach" says, foul balls have been finding their way into neighbors's yards with alarming frequency. The story is that T-ballers used to use this diamond but now it's "real" ball. The guy I spoke with at PPS was open, plain-spoken, forthcoming and very responsive. He said that the district is actively trying to resolve the problem and that netting, more fencing, etc. may be necessary. The clear intention was to "make it happen"

I think that mis-, or lack of, communication is the culprit here. The district seems more than willing to solve the problem and the "process" just got screwed up.

What a surprise.

neighbors's = neighbor's

Neighbor's = neighbors'

geez, so early...

CC: Thanks for the informative update (I mean the first one). Now we will have to see if the neighbors want the problem, which does appear legit, "solved", or if they just want the field out of there. On PortlandMaps it does appear to be in the same location as before the renovations.

This is all too reminiscent of the newbie Pearlites who having moved to condos in the inner city then complain about the city noise like garbage trucks and trains and sirens. Or the folks who move to the 'burbs' next to the pig farm and then complain about the smells.

On PortlandMaps it does appear to be in the same location as before the renovations.

The PPS guy did say that the new backstop is in the same spot as the old one...

By the way, this issue is on the agenda for the Grant Park Neighborhood Association meeting on Tuesday, May 13th at 7:00pm at the Grant Park Church 2728 NE 34th Ave. (at Knott). Hope the little leaguers show up, and that there is some constructive problem solving for the short term so that someone can yell "PLAY BALL" again.

Additional facts for y'all. When the LL's first did the work they didn't apply for a general building permit. Only specific permits for part of the work. Consequently Planning Bureau didn't look at it. In March someone filed a complaint with the City. In response to that the LL's went in and applied for a general building permit to legalize any unpermitted work. A planner, (and one I know to be a very experienced planner) reviewed the permit and approved the work. That permit has been issued and all work has been approved. In other words it has been approved by the City and was back in March. (This above information came from a review of the permits online at PortlandMaps.com.)

The LL's and the School District have decided to fence off the area to give a little time for folks to calm down and to schedule some meetings to see if they can fix some of the neighbors concerns. (I got this from listening to the School District guy talk to Lars today)

Given that they approved the permit AFTER the complaint came in my guess is that the City is out of this.

Greg C

As of Friday afternoon, the barbed wire is off the fencing. Some progress, I suppose....

I forgot to mention that the City on March 13th closed out the violation case it had started to investigate the neighbors complaints. So at this point OPDR at least is satisfied that the LL's have done everything they need to do here.

Greg C

If foul balls are the problem, then netting would easily solve it. If the neighbors object to the netting, then I would suggest they aren't looking for a solution, they just object to living next door to a ballpark.

If it was a ballpark before and it's a ballpark now, why did you buy a house next to a ballpark? If they break your window or dent your care, then sue them!

Here's an idea: let's put up tents and relocate the City Hall homeless camp to
Fernwood Field: the Rottweiler puppies and kittens are going to love the fresh green grass, and the fence will help to keep those schoolkids from hassling the new residents.

If the foul balls are really the problem, they ought to at least let the T-ballers play.

If they thought they were going to put up 50 feet of netting without the neighbors' consent, that was the school folks' mistake.

Looking at those pictures my team of 8,9 and 10 year old's would put 10 balls in 2 hours into those house's. I played at Beaverton High, and that field has the back stop that hangs over home plate, good for batting average all pop up's are foul into net. This would solve problem.

Hey! This was the hot topic last week around here:

http://www.hillsdalenews.org/content/april_28_2008.asp

The fence interfered with their "Vision:"

http://www.hna-pdx.com/content/view/641/1/

But guess what? Enough people were finally aggravated enough to tell someone to Baack Off! The fence is going in, the Wilson High School girl's softball team can play next to their school now. And even though, "The fence would have blocked use of the slope above the field for sledding and other activities, Baack and others said...," people will actually be able to use the ball field for playing ball! And they can cut down on their DRIVING

Aaahhh, neighborhood associations...

Stay tuned for more in the 'hood!

I agree with Meg, a backstop with more overhang and the plate recessed further into it would probably make a huge difference. That would deal with the high pop ups. The curving fouls down the right field line would likely not be as high. I'm glad they removed the barbed wire from our neighborhood.

If they thought they were going to put up 50 feet of netting without the neighbors' consent, that was the school folks' mistake.

Well, they could have left the field the way it was - with a diamond exactly where the new one is. Whatta ya want - foul balls or netting? I'm starting to think it's all a dodge.

We'll soon see.

NIMBY baloney continues... Some years ago, when people were far less concerned about themselves, and far more concerned about making things happen which benefit others, a project like this would have and should have received a hearty CONGRATULATIONS for a job done well.

Now, we have people worried about baseballs in their back yard and noise? Get over it, and find a way to make it work. And make it work now, while the children, their friends, and their parents can utilize the fields going into Summer.

Beside, the noise from the playing field might help drown out the voices some hear in their head.

It is with a heavy heart I write my comments. You see, I'm the guy who dreamed our community would embrace and benefit from the changes at Fernwood.

It started with a simple idea Let Them Play.

Let Them Play...

...baseball, soccer, frisbee, lacrosse, kickball, or tag... just play.

...on fields free of potholes.

...on fields with green grass (we added an irrigation system to Fernwood).

Somewhere along the way it went all wrong. We stopped talking. We started writing e-mails. We threatened to involve attorneys. We allowed bureaucracy to take over the simple idea and now we're in a "cooling off period".

We are better than that! The idea of "Let Them Play" should NOT be divisive. "Let Them Play" should be a rallying cry for OUR neighborhood.

We need to get in a room (free of attorneys and city officials) to find a compromise. We must find a way to "Let Them Play".

I want to know what city officials were involved in the conversation that led to the putting up the temp fence w/barbed wire, to close the field?

And who made that call?

They're in a meeting, talking about complaints from neighbors and someone suggested closing the field till it gets resolved? Kids using it would be ?????

And who ordered the closing?

All idiots. I want all of their names.

Is there something wrong with knowing who does this?

And why is the City Council so dumb as to let this closing happen? Bigger idiots.

If you don't want foul balls in your yard, don't live next to a ballfield. Period. Casting neighborhood-inspired improvements to a ballpark as negative is just plain disgusting.

"I want to know what city officials were involved in the conversation that led to the putting up the temp fence w/barbed wire, to close the field?"

Judy,

As I pointed out above, the building permit for the field was reviewed by the Planning and Building Bureaus, permits were issued, and the construction approved in March. A violation case opened by the City to investigate the neighbor's complaints was also closed in March.

Given that the property here is owned by the Portland School District, I suspect they are the ones involved in deciding whether to allow the kids to play there right now and not the City. I heard a School District spokesman on Lars yesterday say that he was hoping the School District could meet with neighbors to satisfy their concerns and "hoped to get the field open as soon as possible." He also stated that the City was "looking into the neighbors complaints".

Now usually that would be done by the Code Enforcement folks but as said they closed their violation case several weeks ago. So IF there is someone with the City still involved it is most likely either the Neighborhood Association Office, some one from Commissioner Leonard's office or both. The only way to find out for sure is to get on the phone starting Monday morning and ask them.

Greg C

If the City of Portland is involved with PPS in closing down the field even after they have determined "no foul", then why doesn't CoP close down the illegal encampment around City Hall? Or the illegal alien hiring center on the east side that doesn't meet codes. Or the illegal transient camp that doesn't meet city codes out by the airport?

The field was shut down solely for safety reasons. The foul balls were not only hitting the adjacent homes but also going into the nearby play structure. It was only a matter of time before there was a serious injury. See Coach's comment above about how many balls he witnessed in just one game. These were hitting the homes hard and just missed the residents on a number of occasions.

There are other safety issues with the field too. The dugouts aren't safe - the opening is in direct line of foul balls also. I know 2 visiting coaches who already don't like to play there because of this hazard to the players themselves as well as the uncomfortable proximity to the homes.

The field was shut down by PPS with the agreement of Parks and Rec and the little league (don't believe it then go check the sign that's posted on the fence - it's accurate).

No resident requested barbed wire - chalk that one up to someone in the City or PPS.

BTW, the kids are still playing baseball, just at a much safer field only one block away where they have played for years - Grant Park. The games aren't canceled.

The school district is looking into making the structure safer in a manner acceptable to all. Until then the field is closed.

And this doesn't even touch on the whole botched process of field development. The field could have been placed at a different site at Fernwood that makes much more sense - at the other corner which is an intersection that is removed from the adjacent homes and is the better site for baseball anyway because of its direction. If the people who developed this had given it even an ounce of forethought, these design flaws and other problems are instantly recognizable. But they didn't and no one ever consulted with any of the neighbors before this happened.

Stop bad-mouthing the neighbors. Their complaints are totally legit. Start placing the blame with the planners who should have seen these problems beforehand.

There are a couple of temporary solutions available here while the final outcome of this dispute is determined:

1. Put up netting to prevent the foul balls from going into the yards.

2. Reopen the field to tee-ball only.

Putting up a barbed wire fence was not an appropriate option.

For the record, the LL would have loved to place doors on the dugout - however once the complaint was filed by the neighbors we were told to stop all further construction on the site. We were prohibited from adding safety doors to the dugout and we could not finish building the netting/fencing system needed to mitigate the foul balls.

Portland is not alone in its problems.

From California. We suffered similarly trying to get a girls' softball infield skinned! (We were accused of single-handedly changing the micro climate) People have a right to protect their properties, but they also have a duty to contribute to the community as a whole. It takes a "little" give and an awareness that there is almost always a solution if you want there to be one.

WM is right. If this issue were really all about safety, as the neighbors maintain, then the league would have been allowed to finish the dugout entrances and the netting over a month ago. The fact that the league has been prevented fro