Would anyone expect anything less from the Clintoons..... McCain/Romney 08

I have told my wife (a truly dispirited Hilary supporter) over and over that if Clinton were to be the nominee, of course I would vote for her--no problem. After watching the C-Team in action the last couple months, I have to say darkening the circle for her in November would not be a slam dunk. Of course I would be forced to vote Clinton mainly due to Supreme Court nominations that will be made by next pres.

Maybe I'm missing something, Jack, but I read that article and I don't see how you use it as evidence that Clinton will get the nomination. What did you see in this article that led you there?

The math is very, very much against Clinton, and if she doesn't win Pennsylvania by double digits, it gets even worse.

Maybe this will make you feel better:

"Clinton has been losing potential endorsers and superdelegate backing from grass-roots activists such as Larson and elected officials, party luminaries and former Clinton White House aides (the most recent being former Labor Secretary Robert Reich, who endorsed Obama on Friday). The constituency provided Clinton with an early lead among superdelegates, one she retains although by a narrowing margin."

I think she's very nearly sunk.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004361337_loyalty20.html

Just to throw my two cents in. Washington this year had a very interesting situation where the delegates were selected by caucus but Washington also had a primary popular vote. Even though Washington hasn't officially released the popular vote total it was clear that while Obama won the caucuses by a two to one margin, he lost the popular vote.

In fact sites such as realclearpolitics.com estimate that while Obama is far ahead on delegates he is just about 200,000 votes ahead of Hillary nationwide. We could possibly have a Democratic contest this year where Hillary has the most popular votes but Obama wins the nomination.

Greg C

The last time Hillary was "very nearly sunk" we were treated with the "Miracle" of New Hampshire where a 42-29 Obama edge in the polls vanished during voting only to return later in the exit polls.
New Hampshire was rigged in my opinion and if Hillary should somehow get what she needs from Pennsylvania - if she should somehow win by over 10 points - then I'm going to suspect electronic voting shenanigans there as well.
There's a head-in-the-sand mentality about our voting process, and it's really a serious problem. Florida in 2000 was rigged primarily by taking voters off the rolls, but Ohio in 2004 was done with the machines. Why would you think the dirty elections stuff would stop now that Bush and Cheney have to face returning to being private citizens? They can't afford to have Obama win, and they are no doubt working overtime to prevent it.

The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen, by David Swanson, April 19, 2008.

A new collection of essays edited by Mark Crispin Miller called "Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008," tells the story better than any single source I've seen yet.

The views of Senator John McCain are so far from those of most Americans, that Miller rightly refers to the Republicans as a fringe party. But that fringe party is perfecting election theft.

We appreciate the credit Clinton gives us for her defeat. For his own good, Obama needs to understand that he's next, that those of us who actively represent the 80 percent of the nation opposed to the occupation will direct our activism at him until he agrees to a speedy and complete withdrawal from Iraq. And we will mobilize millions to guarantee a landslide if Obama stands up this week and leads a filibuster of the next $170 billion for the occupation. If he continues to claim that he opposes the occupation while funding it with our grandchildren's borrowed treasure, his criticism of McCain will fall flat. If he continues to speak of reducing the U.S. presence in Iraq to "non-combat troops" while soldiers get their heads blown off deep within the Green Zone, he will lose all credibility. A "non-combat troop" in Iraq is another name for John McCain's fantasy that the Iraqis will someday stop resisting.

If Obama were to quietly allow impeachment hearings on Cheney or Bush to proceed on such subjects as torture and signing statements, he could put McCain on the defensive and force him to defend each crime while promising not to commit it. Impeachment hearings could squeeze out all coverage of nonsense spats and scandals. And if the American public understood that voting for Obama would put Bush and Cheney behind bars, we would see a landslide that could not be denied.

As Hillary knows, you don't need a good credit rating to rob a 7/11. Just do it!

Tenskie speaks the truth. Barack Obama, forget about Billary. It's time to go hard on the offense against the War Party, otherwise known as the G.O.P. Take whatever steps you can in the Senate to cut-off funds to the war. Pledge to withdraw the troops swiftly once you take office. Those simple steps will lock in the nomination, and assure victory.

"Clinton has been losing potential endorsers and superdelegate backing from grass-roots activists such as Larson

What?!?!? Lars Larson is a grass-roots organizer for Hillary Clinton?

Sorry about the noise, my head just exploded....

Why all the angst about who gets the privilege to lose to John McCain? Neither one can win the general election - that is clear. You think Hillary is unpacking Obama's baggage? Just wait until the 'Repugs' get their turn. Gonna be ugly no matter who is facing McCain.

Butch,
It seems like just yesterday you were predicting great things for Giuliani.

And of course the best part of all this is that most of the American people won't really start thinking about who they are going to vote for until after Labor Day.

Relax people it's still early yet.

Greg C

by May 1st, they'll announce that Obama is the Dem cadidate.

Clinton or Jim Webb will be VP.

Nice try Bill. I never liked Giuliani, and never said anything in support of him. Don't particularly like McCain either. But considering the alternatives.......

Who are Oregon's superdelegates? Did I read that neither former Gov. Barbara Roberts not former Gov. John Kitzhaber are? And according to this article, one Gail Rasmussen (who?) is an undecided Oregon superdelegate? I know I could pay more attention to the Oregon political party politics, but perhaps someone could enlighten me with a list.

Sarah, Gail is an at-large DNC member from Oregon. Bill Bradbury is elected by the other Democratic Secretaries of State to be a DNC member, and therefore an automatic delegate. The others are the Democratic Congresspeople, the Governor and the rest of the DNC delegation, including the DPO Chair and Vice Chair and two elected members. The State Convention will elect one more unpledged delegate, and that has been Governor Roberts in recent times.

Tired, tired, tired. At least Babs Roberts is for Obama.

Yep Sarah, sleepy Ted is in Hillary's camp and is out looking for votes for her. That is why I switched my party from R to D. :-) Nice to see the Dems out throwing away money at each other. It does not get any better when you have James Carville bad mouthing a fellow Dem!

"It seems like just yesterday you were predicting great things for Giuliani."
---

This is the best chance for a D victory, but replace Giuliani with Bloomberg. If Bloomer runs, we have the 1992 Perot deja vue all over again. Obama (or even Hillary) could beat McCain with only 43%, if Bloomer takes all of Maverick John's Indy vote. 43% D to 41% R to Bloomer's 16%.

Oooh! Scary headline Jack! But no, the sky ain't falling over here in SW PDX.

Her scorched earth approach has done this to her negatives:

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4668032&page=1

Yes, superdels will be paying attention to how she's become the second Queen of Mean. Apologies to the late great Leona Helmsley.

Clinton or Jim Webb will be VP.

Which Clinton?

Clinton or Jim Webb will be VP

Howard Dean may hope that Hillary is the party's #2, but I wouldn't count on it. She's taking this all the way to Denver and then she'll hope Obama goes down in November so she can get the nomination in 2012. I'm with Rush and Sean on that one.

As for Jim Webb, three months ago I would have been all over that. But ever since he chose to cave on telecom immunity, he's a non-starter in my book. Who's the veep then? Try this on...Colin Powell. I know, I know. But I think in his heart he's a good guy who knows he done wrong. What better way to make up for it.

If Hill sticks this out (she will) and takes the nomination (she won't), Denver will become another Chicago and the Democratic party will be finished. Period.

um, just a friendly reminder: Obama needs superdelegates to get the nomination. IN the popular vote, they're separated by less than 1 percent. Obama's name was on the florida ballot, and against party rules, he advertised there, and STILL wouldn't support a revote. And they lying/hypocritical part is that he opposed a ballot by mail initiative in Florida but hey, he sponsored one in the senate. He argued that Florida's mail in vote is too risky, but not one for the rest of the country? This guy is still smokin' weed or something else since his lying and inability to be consistent on anything is showing. So, if anyone steals the nomination, it's OBAMA by disenfranchising voters and intentionally blocking a revote to let them count. If the tables were reversed, and he was loosing by 140 or so delegates, he'd be proslytizing his HOPE against disenfranchisement if Clinton would not allow a recount. You Obama supporters can't help but be in love with your own double standards.

The preceding message by the Republican Party was not paid for.

The difference between Clinton and Obama - socialist versus uber-socialist. I vote for none of the above. It means I'll be voting for McCain, but that is almost the same as none of the above (no I'm not happy about him either).

I'll be voting for "none of the above" as well. And I'm having a great time watching Hillary lose. I'm not sure Obama is electable; the "racist church" issue is just too much of a turnoff for everyone. So that leaves us with McCain, and 4 more years of Republican bullpuckey masquerading as conservatism.

Voting McCain - let's expend our tax dollars for a 100 year occupation - to counter socialism? I guess it's only socialism when you expend tax dollars at home rather than for a futile war?

the "racist church" issue is just too much of a turnoff for everyone

"Everyone" seems a bit broad. At least you're not concerned about Obama being a Muslim. But if you think a candidate's associations with others are important, you might want to learn a little bit about those others (like, for example, Jeremiah Wright) before passing judgment.

you might want to learn a little bit about those others (like, for example, Jeremiah Wright

Whats to learn? He's a hypocrite and a race-baiter for money.

Look again, Jon. He's a Marine, veteran, respected (well, to the extent that's possible in his line of work) professional in the traditiion of American protestantism. Hypocrites and race-baiters? Try Falwell, Robertson, Hagee.

Try this on...Colin Powell. I know, I know. But I think in his heart he's a good guy who knows he done wrong. What better way to make up for it.

actually, that just might happen. i wonder if Middle America could handle a ticket with two African Americans, though.

i think Clinton because she's got too much of the popular vote. she pulls in people Obama doesn't, she's white, she's female.

There's only one thing one needs to understand about Clinton: it only helps her for the democrats to win if she's the nominee.

We're doomed.

Look again, Jon. He's a Marine, veteran, respected (well, to the extent that's possible in his line of work) professional in the traditiion of American protestantism. Hypocrites and race-baiters? Try Falwell, Robertson, Hagee.

Who gives a crap if he was a marine or veteran? Does that mean he cant be a bigot? I respect and thank him for his service, but that doesnt mean what he is saying and doing today is automatically forgiven.
And yes, all those listed are hypocrites and race-baiters as well..whats your point? Are you trying to excuse Wright by pointing to other idiots? That doesnt really help us.

I read that article and I don't see how you use it as evidence that Clinton will get the nomination. What did you see in this article that led you there?

Try the headline.

Undecided superdelegates don't feel bound by primaries

I see that to mean it doesnt matter what the primary numbers say, the superdelegates will vote for Clinton no matter what.

Are you trying to excuse Wright by pointing to other idiots?

No. I'm saying they are, but he's not.