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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on September 22, 2007 1:33 PM. The previous post in this blog was Over the swamps to Gotham. The next post in this blog is Poltergeist. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

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Saturday, September 22, 2007

Was there a riot last night at 160th and E. Burnside?

This comment indicates there may have been. Is anyone in our crack mainstream media on this story?

UPDATE, 1:52 p.m.: Ah, I see that KGW had a little something about it.

UPDATE, 9/23, 2:15 p.m.: A large show of police force kept things orderly last night. An update, and room for further comments, are here.

Comments (30)

The KGW report places it at 162nd.

From katu.com - another incident that occurred yesterday:

A man was arrested Friday in connection with the robbery of two people at knifepoint on a MAX train and a third robbery of a store.

Portland police said the man robbed two people on a westbound MAX train Friday afternoon and then got off at Southeast 122nd Avenue and East Burnside and robbed a convenience store at the intersection.

Authorities said the man then went into Don Pedro's restaurant and made some disparaging comments about Hispanics. Some of the restaurant patrons took offense and held the man until police arrived.

The Max causes people to commit crimes. We need diversion programs, like getting cars into the hands of criminals, because cars cause people to be good.

Destroy the Max, and all mass transit. If mass transit never existed, most crime would stop.

The Police could also take a few cops off of jobs like beating transients to death detail and put them on policing Max stations.

Oh no. Police are not the problem here and neither is MAX. It is high time that the community realized that the cause of all of this random violence is bloggers. So take down the internet.

The Portland policeman interviewed on KGW actually said to paraphrase, the problem is we have a transportation system that freely transports criminals. Portland is going to post a policeman out at 162nd. But this is an additional cost not planned on by those that are pushing the rail/streetcar craze in Portland. Also, this news only points out a positive of individual modes of transport: You can avoid sharing personal space with those looking for an opportunity to shake you down, hit on you, etc. Of course, you avoid car and bike crashes. But I think a lot of people prefer risking the car and bike accidents over the daily intimidation factor of Max and other rail systems.

I love Tri-Met, but if you had to list the number 1 worst aspect of it, it's the constant interaction with thugs and the mentally ill.

Let's get down to basics...all this violence starts in the home, parents need to take responsibility for their children's behaviour. Raising them correctly, teaching them from right and wrong and TELLING THEM NO, heaven forbid.

MAX has little to do with crime, it all starts in the home. When people have children they need to realize this is a lifeling commitment, not just sending them to the mall with a fistfull of dollars. Also, children need two loving parents...a mother (female) and a father (male). Take it from there.

Crime is not going to stop by raising the price of public transportation or by taking it away. That will just cause more problems. People commit crimes because they are either on drugs, poor or mentally ill. Portland has a lot of resources to help these people. It is up to the community to support them not fear them. We all have to live here on this planet so quit being selfish and give a little.
How ignorant is it to say that the Max causes people to commit crimes? If you are intimidated by someone with a mental illness then I suggest you educate yourself and learn how to recognize certain behavior so you don't just think people are crazy.
This kind of thing happens anywhere!! I'm from Los Angeles. Trust me, I know!!
Let's stop putting ourselves in a bubble and live in reality with our neighbors, good or bad. People are going to do whatever the **** they want to do, just remember that. No matter how much the man wants to keep us down.

If you must ride on the Max and are qualified, obtain a concealed carry license from the county sheriff. U can take a simple gun safety course and sign up. With respect to the fellow with a knife...never bring a knife to a gunfight.

MAX and WSLR are not the problem. The problem is people putting up with these punks and gang bangers. The police and transit authorties can't be everywhere all the time so it's up to us citizens who care about good mass transit to alert law enforcement of problems before our mass transit is thrown off track. If the laws are too weak its because we citizens are too weak to pass laws that prevent these problems and protect the innocent law abiding riders. We reap what we sow.

How ignorant is it to say that the Max causes people to commit crimes?

How ignorant is it to miss the entire point that both the Police, myself, and others have made, that the half-baked way our MAX system is designed not only encourages violent crime, but draws it like moths to a light bulb ?

I still say that if we want to become a larger city with rail transit, we need to start acting like a real city, and install turnstiles and controlled access train platforms.

For cryin' out loud, people, have any of you ever ridden the BART in the uber-liberal Bay Area, or the trains in any other large city for that matter ? Can you imagine what that would be like without the gates and rudimentary security you have to pass through to get to them ?

I live about six blocks from one of the inner east side Max stops, and I've gotta say I love it. I've never been mugged or harassed, I feel perfectly safe, and I believe that the Max is good for my property value.

All these stories about 160th-whatever Max-associated violence don't make me think "ohmigawd the Max spawns crime," they make me think "what the Hell is wrong with Gresham and the far east side?"

Cabbie: I rode BART day in and day out for over 5 years and have now rode on MAX almost daily for over a year. I can tell you that what you run into on MAX is nothing even close to the transients, mentally ill and criminal element that you run into on BART.

Turnstiles and controlled access will do absolutely nothing to control that problem because they can and will find ways to circumvent the system and get on, just as Webfred said, the police can't be everywhere at once.

It sounds like many of the folks here want a perfect transit system and it will never happen, undesirable elements will always be there. But having lived all over the country and tried a multitude of public transit systems, Portland's is one of the best when it comes to safety and cleanliness in my experience.

Apparently this has been going on since at least Sep. 11. Very curious that the print media aren't covering it.

Come on Jack... i know you can be faster...

Maybe you are right, Tom, but my point was...what would a ride on the the transit systems you utilized be like without the turnstiles ? Are you suggesting that if those cities ran their rail systems in the fashion we do, that there would be no difference ?

Also, what areas of Portland do you use the MAX in, at what time of night ? East Burnside in the area we are discussing, or closer in ?

There are a lot of reasons why people commit crimes and a lot of things that can be done to solve the problem in the long term but in the short term the solution is that if there is a crime problem in a particular area then there needs to be a larger police presence in that area. That is what they do in LA. Sometimes at the Rosa Parks station in south central LA I have seen as many as 10 transit officers walking around and it is safe. Without the officers it is not safe.

How ignorant is it to say that the Max causes people to commit crimes?

There must be something to it. I often feel the urge to break the law when I'm riding Tri-Met -- even if it's only a bus.

Blame the condos. Now that the homeless and very poor have been forced out of the inexpensive close-in locations they have to use the Max to come into downtown for services and it makes them cranky.
It's the condos!

jeez JD. I was onboard with you until the one man one woman comment. Then I realized that you were also part of the problem. Tolerance and social justice contribute to a non-violent society. Narrow mindedness and Hate won't help. Do you really think single parents or 2 men/ 2 women can't raise good little citizen children? You missed the mark.
Blessings.

It all comes down to policing in the right place.everyone knows if they watch news where
all traffic and crime takes place the max is just one place of many.however there are alot
of offenders and others that are stopped and randomly plucked,nonetheless the true efforts are made in non conforming areas.Then when some of these officer's get a couple hours away from check out time they pick by last role calls discussion which consist of nothing but in and out both ears.So as we know if there is a kidnapping who would stereotypically, rape, killing,drugdeal,big small,pedophile,burglarize,robbery.we have our own thoughts and beliefs ? 1.whiteman 2.Blackman,3.chineseman4.Hispanicman

There is a huge problem with people riding the MAX line for free.. But half the time when I try to buy a ticket on the Yellow Line, the machine won't take credit cards or won't take bills or is just out of order. So occasionally I'll find myself just jumping on the train when I'm unable to purchase a ticket. But in over a year of riding the Interstate MAX I've only seen tickets being checked three times.

I love the MAX, but does it half to be so half-assed? Get ticket machines that work and have a constant presence of ticket checkers and security on trains.

Or just increase police coverage at these crime-infested Eastside MAX stops--have a real show of force-and then maybe the crime problem will be transferred to some other part of Gresham and East Portland. There is plenty of city parks and parking lots for thugs to hang out in too.

1. The "honor system" of buying fares on MAX DOES NOT WORK. The system needs to be a closed system.

2. P.O.S's are arrested every day on MAX for committing violent crimes (against other law-biding passengers). The system is full of gang bangers, hords of out of control juveniles, sex offenders, drug dealers/users, prostitutes, and the mentally ill. The problem is that Multnomah County is too lenient when prosecuting criminals.

3. Trimet is just as liberal as Multnomah county and only cares about numbers of passengers. Trimet doesn't think there are any problems on MAX.

4. The Transit police are understaffed. Trimet would rather pay for security guards and fare inspectors then pay for fully trained law enforcement officers. Instead, the security guards and fare inspectors get in over their heads in dangerous situations and call for the cops to bail them out (every day).

5. Trimet has approx. 77 different types of fares. This is ridiculous. You have to have a masters degree to figure out which ticket to buy and what "zone" you are in. It's easier to simply not buy a ticket like the criminals and thugs....

please god!!

do not let me spread to the pearl!

i escaped from manhatten with 2 small children in the 80's, moved to various places until i settled down in pdx....

it is nice and affordable...

Further comments here.

Ratso said, "With respect to the fellow with a knife...never bring a knife to a gunfight."

Studies of close quarter combat and police action support that a person with a knife can move 20 ft and strike before a person can pull out a handgun, take it off safe, aim, and pull the trigger. Add more distance if the person has to chamber a round as well. This is why police stay some distance away from knife weilding maniacs before pulling out their side arm.

So bottom line: I question the effectiveness of anyone carrying a gun on a MAX for personal safety unless you are willing to pull it out at any perceived threat, in which case I don't want to be on the MAX with you.

Great Travis, have fun riding MAX with the hoodlums. I, for one, trust my Walther PPK and my ability to us it at the proper time if it comes to that. All you need to do is look at what Rudy did for New York after many years of doing nothing by liberal Mayor Dinkins. Same thing has happened here, many years of liberal politco's doing nothing because everyone is a victim of something. You get what you vote for.

I ride Tri-Met a lot. Yes, I ride with drunks, mentally ill, and the intimidating marginals, but I've never once been shaken down or threatened.

I can't say the same for cabbies in this town. I've been shaken down once. Riders better damned well know where they're going, or they're going to lose a fair amount of chump change.

Moscow has a wonderous public transit underground, the cabbies are part of the Russian mafia and tourists are well-advised NOT to use them. The Moscow Metro does, however, have a turnstile system.

Boy, howdy....Talk about a job generator. Every station would need 24-hour coverage, which means at least four, if not five, turnstile attendants, and substitutes, per station. Plus, add in more transit police.

Jobs, jobs, jobs!

Whoops, there goes the Tri-Met tax spiralling up!

I've been shaken down once.

I hate to hear this; it gives us all a poor reputation. All I can say is, the black-and-white Radio cabs have supervisors that swiftly discipline or just can jerks who do that, if you get their cab number. If you step into one of the green or yellow ones, well, luck to you, friend. I've heard stories about people being taken downtown from PDX by route of Oregon City. The secret to making money is sheer volume and good service, really, not by screwing the customer.

Speaking of screwing the customer, how much money do you think Tri-Met loses a day from people who don't pay to ride ? The rest of us have to pay for that lost revenue, eventually...the fare avoiders are quite literally screwing the rest of the riders, and the taxpayers over. Speaking as someone who is forced to pay a special tax to Tri-Met each year, I kind of agree with the gentleman on the other thread who suggested that a closed system might generate enough revenue for more security and turnstiles.

Maybe. I haven't seen enough hard data yet on just how much revenue is stolen each day by those who simply get on without paying.

I would hazard a guess, though, like others on this blog, that these same thieves are probably causing a majority of the problems. On the other hand, the joke downtown on "The Blade," as the kids call the bus mall, has been for the longest time that you can easily spot the professional transit-oriented drug dealers because they are the only ones who actually pay to get on, not wanting any trouble from the law.

"So bottom line: I question the effectiveness of anyone carrying a gun on a MAX for personal safety unless you are willing to pull it out at any perceived threat, in which case I don't want to be on the MAX with you."

Two words: Bernard Goetz. It's just a matter of time unless they begin to do SOMETHING about this. We can't just bury our heads in the sand when conditions give rise to 150 people rioting along the Max line. Somethings gotta give somewhere...somehow. Supporting the community means doing something proactive to make it better...not standing around with pom poms hoping and praying that your team can overcome a 50 point deficit in the 4th quarter.


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