The house should to put impeachment back "on the table" -- not W so much as Dick Cheney. Write Nancy Pelosi. Write David Wu. Write Earl. Tell them what they need to do. It's certainly not difficult to find "high crimes and misdemeanors".

It's really time to bring the Bush administration to a grinding halt. RIGHT NOW.

And if greaseballs like Wyden and Blumenauer don't have the gonads do it, then the people need to do it.

This cr*p has really gone way past far enough.

I don't even come close to agreeing with any of you on this issue. Libby is a pawn of both sides, caught in the middle. He ws convicted about lying about a crime which never happened, to an agent who was no longer a "secret" agent, married to a man who had a beef with Bush.

I'm far more concerned about Bush's horrendous record in Iraq and his lack of true leadership of the immigration problem.

My thoughts about that...

We have courts who decide these things. And prisons for those who are found guilty in those courts.

I'll go along with impeaching Cheney. I've never been in favor of impeaching Bush because that would have merely elevated Cheney.

If you read the Washington Post series last week entitled "Angler," you know that Cheney has his fingerprints on virtually every heinous act the Bush administration has committed, including muzzling the science on fish habitat in the Klamath River basin, which led to that awful salmon holocaust a few years back.

I'm e-mailing my reps right away.

Amen.

I'm not an outgoing activist type, but I can, have, and will make my presence at anti-administration events around here. The place to have a rally is in front of our U.S. Senator's and Reps offices--Yesterday.

The Democratic "leadership" in Congress needs to bring this awful juggernaut down, and now. We are long past the time of talk and compromise. They have the votes; they need to do something with them.

Like the Dems are somehow less corrupt and inept than Bush?

Please.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm

I'm all for a changing of the guard, but lets work on getting a viable third party option.

Supposedly we have a system of checks and balances. But as we all saw this week (and are about to see for several decades), the judicial branch is in the pocket of the Karl Rove types in the executive branch.

That leaves the legislative branch, which so far has been too busy adjusting its comb-overs and dreaming about higher office to stand up to these people. The members of Congress are the ones who need to see the picket signs now. If they don't stand up pretty soon, we may never recover.

a viable third party option.

Please. The third party option is what got us in the mess we're in now.

Congress needs to start acting up in a serious way. If ever large portions of the federal government needed to be shut down while we all think about what the heck we're supposed to be doing, now is the time.

Sigh. This move is hardly unexpected, and seems well within Presidential authority. Libby has still got a felony conviction - so far - and still has to pay a fine large enough that he'll have to spend his book advance on it. (Surely he's writing one.)

In short, it sucks... but it's one of the most trivially mild abuses by this administration. If you want to get out in the streets, be my guest; I've suggested it several times before. But I think you'll do more good if you focus your march on some greater sin of theirs.

As the post says, it's way past time. Today's just another float in the parade of horribles. Is there a website where you can go to start shopping for another country to live in?

"Like the Dems are somehow less corrupt and inept than Bush?"

Like, yes.

Was Gore's chief of staff, or any other Clinton Administration official, convicted of perjury and obstruction and sentenced to 30 months?

May I suggest taking off the partisan jersey for a second and thinking like an American instead of a Republican?

"Thinking like... a Republican." Discuss.

Ah, just like clockwork... when popular opinion swings away from republicans, there's always rumblings of a third party. Or illegal immigration brought to the forefront as a wedge issue.

These days, Republican politicians can't ignore the writing on the wall (Bush is a sinking ship, and GOP initiatives are going down with him) and they're doing what they can to create distance. But Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, McCain, and Rudy have many of the same positions as Bush, only they claim they're entirely new perspectives.

I'm tired of hearing third party nonsense from the left too. It will take an act of unprecedented proportions to unseat the two-party system, which is enshrined in our electoral college. Folks, no currently unknown political power/politician is going to swoop down, battle those big-bad Dems and Republicans, and lead us to the promise land.

Don't like your party? Fine, quit griping and do something about it. I was impressed with how much Pelosi's first 100 days did to act on public sentiment, but it's like Reid and her forgot about the wave they were riding only months ago. Maybe it's time to pick up pressure and get vocal again. Cheney should be impeached by now, but they're scared sh$#less to cause a ripple in the D.C. pond. One of the reasons why third parties won't work either...

They are ALL crooks. Period. I went independent because of this administration. So yes, we should take it to the streets. But not just because of this administration. We should do it because the whole damn system is hosed.

Impeachment is a waste of time. How about we simply pull the plug on the budget process until Gonzales and Rove are gone? How about we block every nomination to every federal office until a firm timetable for withdrawal in Iraq is enshrined in law? You know -- checks and balances?

To have the President kick your a*s when you're outvoted is one thing. But when you control both houses, you're responsible for what happens.

No Sam, Clinton (then the actual President of the United States) just bald-faced lied to the entire American public on national television. That's not as bad as perjury?

I'm sure your retort will contend that Bush lied us into war. If that's the case, then congressional Reps and Dems are not only corrupt, but incredibly stupid.

bald-faced lied to the entire American public on national television. That's not as bad as perjury?

Actually, no. There's this thing called an oath, and when you swear under oath and it's a lie, that's a felony. Lying to the public on TV? Not a crime. If it were, you can be sure Bush would be behind bars.

I think moderate/conservative dems in both houses have made it difficult for Pelosi and Reid to get what they want through... remember, the Dems don't have a huge majority and there are many who side with Republicans on putting big business first. Until we get REAL campaign reform and real substance in a national political race, we're going to be stuck in this catch 22 forever.

Until we get REAL campaign reform

That's just been declared unconstitutional by Clarence Thomas.

God help us.

Chris: You avoided answering my questions, probably because the answer to both is "no," and changed the subject to Monica Lewinsky. Weak.

"British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently tried to obtain significant quantities of uranium from Africa." State of the Union Address 2003. Lie into war. To the Congress and the Entire American Public on television.

"Whenever you hear the US government use the word wiretap? A wire tap requires a court order. Safeguards to protect civil liberties are in place, because we value our constitution." Bush Campaign 2004. Lie about illegal government spying on its citizens. To the Entire American Public on television.

Neither is as bad as Monica Lewinsky?

Jack, honest question:

How many months of Prison should Bill Clinton have been sentenced to for his perjury? Chance for you to show you have no double standard....

"If that's the case, then congressional Reps and Dems are not only corrupt, but incredibly stupid."

So the lie in the State of the Union to support invasion/occupation is justified?

I worry you will pull a muscle or get a hernia, straining so hard to defend Bush.

If indeed Bill Clinton committed perjury (and I believe he probably did), about a year sentence would have been good. Maybe an extra six months for his "Everybody lies in depositions" defense.

Don't come at me with Clinton -- he was a crook, and his spouse, the New Yorker, is probably worse. But he didn't do anywhere near the damage in his two terms that Bush did in any two years, you pick. We will not recover from Bush until our toddler is my age, if then. If we were smart, we'd be starting to look at another country of residence.

Two words:

Frank Rich.

I thought you had the mental acumen to click the link I provided, Sam. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.

Henry Cisneros, a Clinton cabinet appointee (Libby was not a Bush appointee) was pardoned. Albeit, for a lesser crime than Libby, but Cisneros like a coward, pleaded to lesser charge. He was facing 18 counts of conspiracy and obstruction (BTW, Libby's prison sentence was commuted, he wasn't pardoned).

And how did I know you'd bring up yellow cake and Niger? Talk about weak:

http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html

Like I said, if Bush can lie us into war, then the majority of congressional Dems are both stupid and naive.

And I suppose wiretapping suspected drug kingpins and mob bosses without a warrant is just dandy, but wiretapping suspected terrorists is off limits? Whatever.

Whatever.

I think that sums up George W. Bush's presidency perfectly.

Jack, you're a lawyer, I'm not. If a person were on trial for, say, tax evasion, and lied under oath in response to a question about "sex with that woman," wouldn't a prosecution for perjury depend partly on showing that the question was relevant to the trial? Ken Starr spent millions of dollars on a fruitless fishing expedition, and the best he could do was try to turn a lie into perjury without meeting legal tests.

Of course you're right on the damage assessment. If impeachment isn't right for this crowd, then what does it take?

The moral standard of these times is strange. If the course played out and Libby got locked up in a week or two, the rant would have been that the Bushies let him go down for their sins. But that was not going to happen.

Instead, and predictably, Libby got his "Out of Jail" card. It was never a question of if, just when.

Be outraged but don't be surprised.

The posters who compare the springing Libby with other pardons and transgressions have allowed the swoon and sway of these times dilute their own morality.

you'll do more good if you focus your march on some greater sin of theirs.

It was a stupid, bumbled burglary that brought down Richard Nixon. Not the war he was cheerleading, nor the tens of thousands that died on his watch.

You never know in advance what's going to trip you up.

But the you need an active opposition party, not a group so happy to be back in the game, they can't seem to care who they wake up with in the morning.

"Henny, Penny the sky is falling !"

So Bush threw over the trump card. Sure, it's a improper power trip, but hardly unexpected. In many ways, it's designed to put the Dems' panties in a bunch, and laugh at their schtick.

Let's predict the response.

Chuck "Where's the camera ?" Schumer,1st to the attack, eyeballing the camera, calling it disgraceful. A real ball of fire. Like Mr. Rodgers with hemorrhoids.

Harry Reid, looking like a short Buddy Ebson, promising more hearings, more investigations.Another ball of fire.

Nancy Pelosi buying 6 new suits.

Was it all designed to shut Scooter's mouth ? Sure it was.

At least Bush didn't sell pardons like Slick Willy. To tell you the truth, I'm tired of seeing Joe "Where's my 15 minutes of fame ?" Wilson on TV with his sad story. Let him get a job in the Post Office or in a firehouse and then let me feel sorry for him . File him and his foxy wife away with Tanya Harding, Donna Rice, Monica the intern and the poor bastard Dick Cheney shot with a half of a load on.

I hope Keith Obermann's head explodes.

Jack,

Did you feel equally outraged about the pardons Clinton signed on his way out of the White House?

Bush "defenders" posting here (al, brother gary, Chris McMullen just to pick examples): Stop changing the subject. Jack, I don't think impeachment is a waste of time. It was effective in shutting down the Clinton administration. We've seen that it is politically difficult to use Congressional appropriations power to bring about policy change in the government. Maybe there are ways to do it in other areas, but on defense spending it just didn't work.

Two words:

Frank Rich.

Trivia question: who was his attorney?

(Hint: his names rhymes with Looter Scibby.)

Mister Tee,

Frank Rich writes for the New York Times. Marc Rich was pardoned by Clinton.

Carol,

"He ws convicted about lying about a crime which never happened,"

Obstruction of justice means that a person inhibited a prosecutor's ability to investigate whether or not a crime occurred. Your statement that "a crime ... never happened" is not supported by the facts here. At best, the facts suggest that the prosecutor could not prove the crime, perhaps because of Libby's lies to the grand jury.

"to an agent who was no longer a "secret" agent,"

You must have more information than the Dept of Justice, which stated in post-trial briefs that Ms. Plame was certainly covert (working on weapons of mass destruction for the CIA, by the way) at the time she was outed. Please share your information with the rest of us.

"married to a man who had a beef with Bush."

Joe Wilson, an ambassador under George H.W. Bush, investigated whether Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa, found out that it wasn't, and then wrote an Op-Ed stating that the President had lied about this in a speech to the nation in which he was attempting to build support to go to war. If you characterize calling the President out for lying to the world about his reasons to go to war a "beef," then your understanding of what that word means differs from mine.

This is hilarious. Mister Tee, I thought you had come to some kind of enlightened state about your misguided politics when you invoked Frank Rich. Turns out you were just another one of the subject changers. Back to the Mrs. and that spicy tomato product, I guess.

Slick Willy's Farewell Pardons 1/20/01
Highlights

1) Roger Clinton-1985 conviction for Distributing Cocaine- full pardon

2) NY Moneyman William Fugazi- 1997 conviction for Perjury

3) Booty Call- Susan McDougal- 1996 conviction for Mail Fraud

4) Marc Rich - 1984 Conviction for Racketeering (the news had some nice clips of Bill nuzzling up to the wife prior to his release from jail; "consoling" her)

5) Patty Hurst 1976 Conviction for Armed Bank Robbery

and 22 old "Good ole boys" from Arkansas

Need more Clinton pardons ?

Dem. Rep. Dan Rostenkowski

Dem. Rep. Mel Reynolds

Clinton's Secretary of HUD Henry Cisneros

Jack,

I mostly drank my way through my exchange student year in Germany, but from what I could tell it was a very nice place to live. Mandatory health care, provided through (very heavily regulated) private insurers was a big plus. Additionally, all my insurance info and medical history was stored on a smart chip on my insurance card, so checking into the hospital consisted of scanning my card.

Also, Germany still refuses to recognize Scientology as a religion (something that paves the way for state support in Germany), and classify it as a cult instead. This has forever placed the country in my good graces.

I was home (briefly) in 03-04 before I moved to Japan, where I've been ever since. Also a decent place, though I've been here long enough to notice the ups and downs. I've taken part in some labor battles that give me a new appreciation for the debate back home. Though if you're employed by an above-board company (or a well-regarded university), you'll be enrolled in the national social insurance and health systems.

The health service here has private providers, and there are private insurers offering supplemental care, but the government plan provides a baseline at least. I pay a straight 30% of costs and fees out of pocket when I go to the doctor, but doctors fees also tend to be much lower here than in the States. A year and a half ago when I had pneumonia, my share of a full workup, two x-rays, and a half hour of IV medication came to about 3,500 yen ($30).

Just my 2 cents on the foreign lands I've been fortunate enough to live in.

brother gary:

all of those people were pardoned AFTER they had served their sentences.

brother gary: Have you noticed that the subject at hand is the current government? Why do you insist on changing it?

jack: The US is too big to get away from on this planet. Still, Canada has national health care and a somewhat more healthy perspective on its role in the world. And, it's close by. You know what they say -- the Canadians, they're just like us. Only different.

Sandy Berger stole classified national security documents and was only fine $50k. Where's the outrage, Jack? Oh wait...he's a Democrat. My bad.

Clinton, and all other presidents, handed out pardons on his way out the door. They do this because it’s a scummy act partly made necessary by the way the game is played. The solutions such as not regarding money as speech, corporations as humans, or (dare I say it here) some sort of voter owned elections are not coming along any time soon.

The fact that Bush couldn’t be bothered waiting tells us that he has lost interest in appealing to anyone but a few deadenders - some of whom have been kind enough to comment here. Remember their comments next time they crawl out of their holes to lecture us about the rule of law or how they represent the moral majority.

So, Jack, I assume you're organizing a rally?

Lots of response on this question of corruption in high places but little unity. It seems to me that our politicians represent us accurately. We're divided or even ignoring what's going on. No longer do we--collectively--keep a firm grip on basic values like honesty and fairness.

My thoughts on Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence:
-Bush didn't even wait a suitable interval
-George W. Bush, who I believe claims to be a Christian, is morally corrupt.
-I'm with thousands of others in Multnomah county who are registered as independents.
-Yesterday I looked into getting an Irish passport.
-Jack has the same idea I do. Fly the US flag upside down. Maybe burn it.
/s/ Don Sparks

Jack, if you will organize and lead the rally, I'll be there. I'm sure a protest involving 200-300 middle-aged ordinary people would get the country's attention more than the 2,000 violence-prone hooligans who usually show up for anti-war rallies around here.

all of those people were pardoned AFTER they had served their sentences.

Not Marc Rich...He fled to Switzerland avoid prosecution.

Always funny that the topic of Clinton is like Advil for stressed-out conservatives tired of defending Bush. Really guys, you're going to need something stronger than Advil to get rid of your Bush migraine. We all are.

Will one of my fellow Republicans please tell me how you can defend this choice by Mr. Bush? Libby lied under oath, right? It doesn't matter if he lied about what he had for breakfast, I consider perjury a serious offense. And please, no comparisons to Clinton. In my book they're both morally bankrupt.

Like Don said above, "No longer do we--collectively--keep a firm grip on basic values like honesty and fairness."

It seems like most just stick to defending the actions of their own. It's time we held everyone accountable, no matter which party.

The lesson to be learned by Scooter and anyone else who is called to testify under oath is to refuse to testify, citing the Fifth Amendment. I shudder to think what this witchhunt will do to future federal prosecutions to get at the truth.

The lesson to be learned by Scooter and anyone else who is called to testify under oath is to tell the truth.

So let me see if I can summarize the position taken by Bush defenders: "Clinton did it too!"

The goal of the Bush Administration, then, is to try to live up to the standards of the Clinton Administration? Why didn't you say so??

Fifth amendment idea is cute, but remember: prosecutors can grant immunity and compel testimony. Then, you've just got to lie and lie.

Standards of the Clinton administration: economic prosperity, wage growth, jobs growth, federal budget surpluses, deficit reduction, general domestic and international tranquillity.

How does Bush compare to that?

It is a big mistake for any right-minded person to get baited into defending the corrupt Clintons and their cronies. Enough already.

This is what we have to do now: Contact your Congressional reps and tell them you insist they sign on to H.R. 333 (Kucinich, D-Ohio) to impeach Dick Cheney for high crimes and misdemeanors http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query More documentation here http://kucinich.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=3750

Jack is right. Waiting this regime out for 18 more months is insane. Let's get busy, friends.

Bush to Troops: DROP DEAD

Bush sends message to America's intelligence and military members: you are expendable, you are political tools, you don't deserve the respect or the protection of the president and his White House staff. -- Wayne Madsen Report

Bush double-crosses our military troops, the Pentagon, the CIA, anyone who assists him in crime -- stabs them in the back -- and Libby is going to get it, too. Bushism's Witness Removal program.

Ben Franklin: Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

Ya' know, it isn't even Bush Jughead who is the gang leader -- it is Bush Sinister. Chewey, Rummy, Race, Rave, Scootiepie, and demented Jughead his'sef, (very brief list), are merely B.Sinister's serviles, and incidentally witnesses as they are accomplices, and they can all look forward expecting, and knowing, they each are going to be disposed of -- as in gravely stabbed in the back for their assistance -- each in their turn.

That's right, the father slays his son so he don't talk. That's how maniac Macbethian ol' Sinister '41 is. Dispose of the help when they are of no further use. Starting (at least) as early as when he offed the two crewmen in his WW II bomber, while he panic-bailed to save his own skin, (from fear of imagined smoke and damage). The fear in him jumped, too, and fuels his mental cancer -- 'Guilt is his co-pilot.' Ever since, without exaggeration, over a million fatalities and unnumbered-more mangled casualties are strewn in the wake of Bush Sinister, George Hitler Worker.

You can read the names in History. When you read your history.

So I expect some unexpected demise befalls our Libby LIAR not long from now. And awfully much the same foreseen, in due order, for Jughead, and each. and. every. one. who. ever. aided. Sinister. right. down. to. ward. heelers. and. voters. supporting. him. You know who you are. Now you know what he pays.

One might imagine that, sometime, somewhere, someone, finally sees what's in store for themself, and goes Saul-to-Paul in revelation, then stabs back in self-defense before they are back-stabbed. Just as Stalin's inner circle did, (his physician in the foursome used arsenic). And just as Hitler's close council planned to do, but Adolf took off. B.Sinister's de-capo-tation is not the American ideal of justice, yet Justice in a way. It is cause for one to imagine.

His only stalwarts safe from his murderous Witness Removal, are his mentor Henry K. and his mate Babs. (The Bushism booster voices here, and everywhere, are well-advised to face the fact: You are not this fiend's friend. 'Well-advised' as in, don't be an obit statistic.) To end with a whimper and not with banging Independence, (wherever She is today), the stars spangled in (Babs') 6/8/1925 banner may yet not wave a year from now, and so goes Sinister's best buttress, and so goes Sinister.

I give Bush due credit for taking the fight to our enemies, thereby reducing the likelihood of an attack on our soil.

WMD's were just one (of many) reasons to invade Iraq. The fact remains that Saddam was off the reservation (he didn't stay bought), and he had to be removed. 48 hours to get out of Baghdad, or we'll come and get you. He didn't think we meant it; the next dictator will know better.

Domestic politics and our foreign affairs are far more complex than the bleating masses of sheeple will ever know. "Bush Lied & People Died" is reduccio ad absurdum in it's simplest form.

Marc Rich's crimes (and the many others pardoned by the Clintonistas) were far more egregious than Scooter Libby.

And tell Joe Wilson to get a shave: he looks like Kenny Rogers having a bad hair day.

"Bush Lied & People Died" is reduccio ad absurdum in it's simplest form.

and "Yee Ha!" is not a foreign policy, either.

by the way, it's reductio ad absurdum.

Marc Rich's crimes (and the many others pardoned by the Clintonistas) were far more egregious than Scooter Libby.

telling the teacher "he started it!" didn't worked for me in grade school--and I don't accept it from grownups, either.

and,

i'm still trying to figure out how, as long as past Presidents have done wrong, a current President is excused from doing wrong.

to simplify: how does Clinton behavior excuse Bush behavior?

"I give Bush due credit for taking the fight to our enemies, thereby reducing the likelihood of an attack on our soil."

I give Bush credit for creating many new enemies for many years to come and for increasing the likelihood that there will be more attacks on our soil and on the soil of our allies in Europe and elsewhere.

Now in Iraq we're reduced to trying to prop up and arm that faction within the country that we supposedly went there to fight, the Sunnis who formerly supported Saddam. And we're opposing those who were a few years ago Saddam's internal enemies, the Shiites. What a colossal, deadly mess for all involved.

The world is far more dangerous and cruel, at home and abroad, since Bush started playing a part in it. He's a true disaster for the world. The great majority of Americans now oppose his policies, but it's amazing that he has any defenders left at all outside his family and corrupt administration. Perhaps some people are unable to distinguish television action fantasies from real life, and for them Bush is still to be admired.

how does Clinton behavior excuse Bush behavior?

It doesn't, of course. But that's all the Bush people have left. The verdict of history is already in, and they know it. It's an embarrassing time for America, and it's their fault.

What strikes me is how short-sighted these people are. Maybe they'll see things differently when someone they love is held indefinitely with charges and without counsel, or dies in a back-alley abortion, or gets blown up by one of the millions that we have taught to hate us, or gets a substandard education because they didn't go to a religious school.

Or maybe not. They can just stay focused on all the good things that Bush stands for, like more money for the rich and lots of revenge killing.

Our rescue is imminent. The House Judiciary Committee has announced it will hold hearings on the commutation of Libby's prison sentence.

The President of the United States has plenary powers to grant pardons or commute sentences. Period.

He could pardon the DC Sniper, if he were so inclined.

By definition, if the President granted a pardon or commutation, it is legal. To suggest that Bush did something illegal by pardoning his Veep's CoS is just silly.

So I was listening to KXL today. All about Joe Wilson the liar, and Bill Clinton a perjurer who pardoned worse people, and it's a commutation not a pardoj, and blah, blah, blah. The online poll today was did "Prez do the right thing in "commuting" Scooter Libby's sentence." The result 50% yes, 50% no.

Now if you can't get Lars listeners to approve this action you know what the rest of the country probably thinks.

Hey you Bush defenders. You are in a minority in your own party on this.

Greg C

"To suggest that Bush did something illegal by pardoning his Veep's CoS is just silly."

It sure is. Because Bush did not pardon Libby: he just commuted his prison sentence, silly.

Jack, it is completely relevant to cite Clinton's actions because a President's powers of commutation and pardon is not restrained by any guideline or precedent. It is only 'restrained' by scrutiny and political cost, so you must judge it by precedent.

To say otherwise is only exercising a shameful double standard.

Why do we keep talking about Clinton? I had little use for Clinton toward the end. I hated his pardons, too. He was a crook to boot. But he didn't ruin the country for 30 years or more, the way your hero the Chimp has.

If Bush and Cheney are the best you can do for President and V.P. of the United States, it's pitiful.

"I'm sure a protest involving 200-300 middle-aged ordinary people would get the country's attention more than the 2,000 violence-prone hooligans who usually show up for anti-war rallies around here."

There were a lot of ordinary people at protests before the cops started beating them up. The big Bush protest, the last time Bush set foot in Portland, was filled families and all kinds of regular people. Babies and old people were pepper-sprayed. Vera defended her police. I guess they did their job. They frightened a lot of those babies, elderly and regular people away from the protests. You're right, it's time for them to come back.

Sure Clinton was an SOB...But he was OUR son-of-a-bitch.

I wonder how many Libs would be screaming from the rooftops if Gov. Richardson had commuted all the death row convicts to life in prison?

Not so much?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19588942/

I wonder how many Libs would be screaming from the rooftops if Gov. Richardson had commuted all the death row convicts to life in prison?

what does Richardson have to do with Bush's behavior as President?

I'm just using Richardson for the sake of example...I couldn't remember the name of the governor that commuted ALL THE DEATHROW inmates a few years back (seems he didn't have any more respect for the judiciary than Bush).

But the ACLU thought that was good government, right? Too bad all their murder victims couldn't be pardoned.

But the ACLU thought that was good government, right? Too bad all their murder victims couldn't be pardoned.

what does the ACLU have to do with Bush's behavior?

what does the ACLU have to do with Bush's behavior?

Yer wasting your digit muscles asking the kool aid drinkers pertinent questions.

complete.waste.of.energy

Is it worse to commute the death sentence of a convicted murderer, or Scooter Libby?

"Is it worse to commute the death sentence of a convicted murderer, or Scooter Libby?"

Yes. What in the name of reason is your point now, Mr. T?
Here's a viewpoint from a New York Times reader:

To the Editor:

When George W. Bush was governor of Texas, he presided over more than 150 executions. In more than one-third of the cases — 57 in all — lawyers representing condemned inmates asked then-Governor Bush for a commutation of sentence, so that the inmates would serve life in prison rather than face execution.

Some of these inmates had been represented by lawyers who slept during trials. Some were mentally retarded. Some were juveniles at the time they committed the crime for which they were sentenced to death.

In all these cases, Governor Bush refused to commute their sentences, saying that the inmates had had full access to the judicial system.

I. Lewis Libby Jr. had the best lawyers money can buy. His crime cannot be attributed to youth or retardation. He has expressed no remorse whatsoever for lying to a grand jury or participating in the administration’s effort to mislead the American people about the war in Iraq. President Bush’s commutation of Mr. Libby’s sentence is certainly legal, but it just as surely offends the fundamental constitutional value of equality.

Because President Bush signed a commutation, a rich and powerful man will spend not a day in prison, while 57 poor and poorly connected human beings died because Governor Bush refused to lift a pen for them.

David R. Dow

Houston, July 3, 2007

The writer is a professor at the University of Houston Law Center who represents death row inmates, including several who sought commutation from then-Governor Bush.

If Bush and Cheney are the best you can do for President and V.P. of the United States, it's pitiful.

You're absolutely right. Totally pitiful.

So I guess the Dems better bring someone better to the election next time, or its just going to happen again. And honestly, I dont think the current crop of Dem potential candidates are going to do it.
No matter how bad Bush and Cheney are.

Jon, which of the Democratic candidates do you think would do any of the following:
- disregard an intelligence briefing that said Osama bim Laden was determined to attack within the United States, after he was credited with blowing up two embassies and a US Navy ship
- take social security surpluses and distribute them to the wealthiest Americans as tax cuts
- lie to the American public about the cause for war in Iraq, and to the Congress about his intentions respecting an authorization for the use of force
- shut down federally funded stem cell research in defiance of popular opinion
- shut down the use of US foreign aid for the use of birth control in poor, less developed countries
- abrogate US treaties respecting the environment and nuclear proliferation
- appoint incompetent cronies to the highest positions in government whose only qualification is political loyalty
- politicize and demoralize the Department of Justice
- out of vindictiveness, authorize or condone or excuse acts of treason against the United States
- run our government into the red to the point where future generations will have a staggering burden of debt
- weaken and undercut our laws regarding protection of the environment and natural resources
- ignore indisputable signs of accelerating, human-caused climate change, putting our future and our children's future at risk
- commit and condone unauthorized wiretapping and surveillance of US citizens, and lie to the public about it
- perpetrate and condone the torture and unlawful, indefinite detention without trial or a hearing of both US citizens and foreigners
- establish and maintain secret prisons overseas
- disregard and refuse to enforce laws properly enacted by the Congress
- appoint new members of the Supreme Court whose intentions are patently to overrule or disregard established precedent
- perpetrate and condone and encourage election fraud
- obstruct justice through secrecy, and avoid accountability through refusal to disclose in response to legitimate investigatory inquiries
Which?

Is it still going on and no one has pointed out that Scooter Libby was Marc Rich's lawyer in the Clinton pardon crap?

Such erudite exegeses.

Allan, I think ANY politician will do that crap if they felt it was in their best interest. Because thats what happens when you become a politician. But if I had to pick one to match your list of qualifications, I think I would pick Hillary. She may not do a few of those, but I think she is capable of most. (The others will never get elected, so its not worth arguing for them.)

"(The others will never get elected, so its not worth arguing for them.)"

Jon, that is exactly the point!!

Allan loves to argue worthless points. He wastes a whole page on a list of what-ifs... only to be slammed down by the obvious question:

Does it matter if Al Gore or John Kerry would not do any of those things, if they could not get elected?

Hello, Allan, anybody home?

Find somebody to win the election, since obviously Al Gore and John Kerry couldn't win, even though they both ran against an idiot chimp who stole the first election, and who "lied and people died" during the second election.

So, Allan, how about you answer this question:

"which of the Democratic candidates do you think could actually win in 2008"?

Then we can move on to your question.

"Does it matter if Al Gore or John Kerry would not do any of those things, if they could not get elected?"

Actually, Al Gore did get elected.

The obsession of the left is reaching even greater heights. So much anger so little thought. The Plame affair was a joke from the beginning..remember that everyone wanted Rove's head. the case should have ended when they discoved it was big A spilled the beans..and who cares anyway, Ms Wilson was no Jamie Bond, just another pencil pusher whom everyone and their mother knew worked for the spooks. The almost insane ranting of the left when it comes to republicans and the president is becoming a mental illness...of course this group would rather have community colleges forced to come up with plans to register students and cause them to vote, or make kids ride in booster chairs until they are the average height of a thai.

The obsession of the left is reaching even greater heights. So much anger so little thought.

the "obsession" is hardly a "left" issue.

Ms Wilson was no Jamie Bond, just another pencil pusher whom everyone and their mother knew worked for the spooks.

oh really?

Ya' know, registering students and booster seats were the exact and only two things LIARS Larson talked about all last week.

LIARS never explains how Republican voters stupidness put 3500 dead Guards, and counting, in graveyards all over this land.

But, hey, keep listening to LIARS support the oops.

Jack:

I just the following to Congressman Blumenauer. It's not a solution to the immediate problem, of course...

Dear Mr. Blumenauer,

In the wake of the Libby commutation, I hope the House will propose a Constitutional amendment removing the power of the President to pardon or commute the sentences of those who have served under him in the Executive Branch. This flagrant abuse of power has to be forbidden to future presidents.

I wrote to Darlene Hooley asking her to support H Res 333 to impeach Cheney. Her response was to give me the particulars of another Resolution (337?) and then the particulars of 333 (uh, I knew that!) and then she concluded that she would keep my comments in mind if the resolution comes to the House floor. She didn't bother to tell me if she supports the resolution of not. It's hard to type with one wet finger in the air(and the air is damn stagnant this time of year in DC - no clarifying political winds blowing).

We need to get a hundred door knockers in each congressional district to take a survey of 1000 constituents. I would expect 80% of Darlene Hooley's constituents want Cheney impeached. Then take that to Hooley and tell her if she can't commit to supporting impeachment that we'll be looking for a new Democratic candidate for the next election who will be a REPRESENTATIVE (assuming that the optical scan machines haven't been compromised and minority voters haven't received GOP letters threatening them and relatives with imprisonment for voting).

Never mind those poll numbers, Sandy, unless they're furnished to Darlene on a check, with a few following zeroes.

I would expect over 80% want Cheney impeached. I would expect over 95% want Bush impeached, but only after Cheney, not before.

Then the country could either have a new VP succeed Bush, or better yet, we could have the first woman President (no, not Hillary) when the current Speaker gets elevated to the office of President. And she should appoint as her VP Jack Murtha.

A Pelosi/Mutha ticket would be awesome!!

The only thing better would be a Pelosi/Clinton ticket for 8 years, then a Clinton/Obama ticket for 8 more years.

The only thing better would be a Pelosi/Clinton ticket for 8 years

Which would obviously be followed by Four Horseman...

Speaking as a constituent, somewhere south of The City, Hooley is a goner

Hooley has howled her last Conventionality, and dithered her last Democratic dimming.

You are not welcome in our District, Darlene. You are good for nothing, when all you enact is unenacted and ignored by the illegitimate Executive you do not stand against in principle. Just so, you have not kept your oath, nor duty to us.

Save your breath saying what you have done.

We see what Hooley has not done: Impeach and Imprison point-blank WAR CRIMINALS.

Stay in your federal fence, you are not welcome here in our District. We can find someone better and truly Democratic.

Jack, I hoped you'd have time to see this and its comments.

Passion is materializing matters.

And matters are in our own hands.

Here's what that bastion of the American Right (CNN) found when they asked the following question in September 2006:

"Based on what you have read or heard, do you believe that President Bush should be impeached and removed from office, or don't you feel that way?"

Should Be......30%
Should Not Be..69%
Unsure ........ 1%

Not quite 95%, eh?

Not quite current, eh?

Perhaps the July 5, 2007 from American Research Group {http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/}is more timely?

Question:
Do you favor or oppose the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against President George W. Bush?

7/5/07...Favor...Oppose...Undecided

All Adults....45%...46%...9%
Voters .......46%...44%...10%

Democrats.....69%...22%...9%
Republicans...13%...86%...1%
Independents..50%...30%...20%

Based on 1,100 completed telephone interviews among a random sample of adults nationwide July 3-5, 2007. The theoretical margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points, 95% of the time. Of the total sample, 933 interviews were completed among registered voters.