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Monday, June 18, 2007

Tough weekend in the 'Couv

That "right to bear arms" only went so far for this fellow.

Comments (31)

I'm as ardent as they come regarding the Second Amendment, but have little sympathy for an individual who brandishes a weapon with police officers. This fellow fought the laws of natural selection and the law one.

Or "won" as it were...

brandishes a weapon with police officers

I'm not sure we have all the facts yet about that (or will ever). He may have had his gun in his hands when he died, but that doesn't mean he knew it was the police or that he pointed it at anyone. The snarling pit bull probably didn't help the situation.

Was he pointing the gun at the officers, was he threatening them? The article makes it sound like he answered the door with a gun, which, depending on the circumstances, isn't necessarily threatening. Also, why do cops have the habit of shooting to kill? What ever happened to non-lethal containment? Sad.

I don't envy anyone on either side of the door of that trailer on 162nd in the 'Couv.

As far as I am concerned, a snarling dog is an appropriate response to people showing up at your house in the middle of the night, cops or not. Dogs don't deserve to die for natural behavior and cops seem more than happy to shoot pit bulls regardless of whether or not the dog was a threat (also, not mentioned in the article). Not all pit bulls are vicious killers, people.

Serving a search warrant in the middle of the night because of what? Drug possession? Driving while suspended?

IMO the police had no business being there that late. Search warrants are better served during the day when they can actually see what they are looking for.

Plenty of people answer the door with a loaded gun in hand when someone is pounding at the door at midnight. A bugler could easily yell "Police! Search warrant!" as they are kicking down the door.

I agree with everyone's comments so far, especially the last one from Anthony. I would have to say a no-knock warrant is right up there on the top of my list of fears, though the knock didn't help this guy much. The correct thing for him to do would've been to call 911 and confirm the officers outside were, in fact, police officers, and inform the officers outside he was doing so (without opening the door).

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever hear the true facts behind this story.

I had cops bang on my door at 2 am. (looking for fleeing suspect that had gone through my yard) they hammered on the door but did not identify themselves as police (a major mistake) My wife was home alone with our infant and immediately ran to an inner room to phone 911. My dogs were going nuts (as they should) 911 operators had no idea police were there and said they were sending a unit for my wife. The cop then started sneaking around my house with a flashlight. My wife was scared for her life and was never informed it was the police till an hour later (hovering in a corner with our son) when a 911 operator called back and said it was a police unit.

I was livid, I met with the sergeant and told them that their failure to identify could have been a lethal mistake. I informed them that answering my door at 2am to someone banging on it I have a loaded shotgun and 2 pissed off dogs. The sergeant agreed that they should have identified themselves, apologized and NEVER mentioned that my reaction would have been 1. illegal (which it is not) or 2. Unreasonable (it was a very bad neighborHOOD).

In short, if they said “police” and he shows up at the door pointing a weapon then shooting seems reasonable. If they failed to identify themselves then they should be in jail. For god’s sake it was the man’s home, he did nothing wrong, is anything still sacred in this police state.

But I am sure the van police will be honest about the whole thing...

this is horrible news.

how i wish there were no loaded shotguns sitting in our homes.

It is interesting that when an unarmed black man in NY gets shot 39 times Conservatives defend the cops; When an unarmed black guy gets shot at a bachelor party Conservatives defend the cops.

In a case like this with very few facts they leap to defending the guy and condeming the cops...

They are defending him because he had a gun... unlike many who are killed by police.

Jack, of course that was kind of my point...

Oh, I know -- we are on the same page.

More here and here.

Jack, Eric,

Your comments evidence a sort of reality disconnect. No one here is defending the guy merely because he had a gun. They are defending him because it appears that the police shot a man who merely came to the window with a handgun, and they saw him. Unless the gun was pointed at them, they should not have fired, and it looks like the guy was murdered by the police. They do not appear to have had reason to shoot.

People would be condemning this just as much had the victim of this police brutality been a man of color, at least among the people I know. But maybe you hang out with a different crowd than I do.

And assuming that people who defend the right to keep and use guns are evil "conservatives" is a mistake. People of all political stripes have guns in their homes, and know how to use them.

And to ecohuman: Don't want a shotgun in your house? Fine, no one is forcing you to have one. You can deal with someone breaking into your house by calling the cops, and hoping they show up in time to help you.

I think it's more prudent to have equipment on hand to deal with a situation myself, as do many other people who view their personal safety as their own responsibility.

Well, now I know that if I should ever want to burglarize someone's home in Clark County, all I have to do is put on some black tactical gear with some buddies, and pound on the door while loudly screaming "OPEN UP, POLICE !!!"

Any law-abiding citizen in their right mind will put their legally-owned firearm right back in the safe, and cower in the corner for fear of their very life.

What a great precedent this sets.

Hey, is America a great country, or what ?

Unless the gun was pointed at them, they
should not have fired,

But no one except the police officers know whether that happened or not.


have you read all the linked articles? The more infor that trickles out the worse it looks for the guy. First he was an innocent nobody, now it turns out his house was full of pot plants and grow lamps and he had $2,500 cash.

Not saying for sure it was a clean shoot and the cops weren't at fault, too soon to tell. Juts find it ineteresting that so many immediately jump to the conclusion that it was a bad shoot.

If you were equally outraged by Diallo and the other cases in NY great, but I think you'll find that the same types of people who line up to support this guy are on the cops side in those cases.

I'm a liberal pinko, I lean anti cop of course:-) (joking any cops who may be reading this, though I do still hold it against the guy that gave me a ticket for going 71 in a 60 zone last week when every other frikkin car on the road was going over 70!)

seriously I tend to question any police shooting, but give them a lot more benefit of the doubt if they guy had a gun.

What my legal friends in Vancouver are whispering is
that the cop that was in charge of this "event" is not
the smartest guy around, being a hotshot guy with
low IQ and lot of bluster to cover up that fact. So,
the best guess is that this was a botched raid that
went soar in a hurry and they "accidentally" killed a
young man they had no intentions to do. Once it
happened, they're now in "cover their asses" mode.

With near record low public opinion--to the point of
active hostility--of local so-called "law-enforcement"
it is near certainty the officials over there will seek to
openly lie and spin this event to keep a lid on truth as
they're not considered that "professional" to begin with
and certainly not enough to be objectively truthful about
themselves when the awful truth would hurt all the more.

So, once more, we the taxpayers are left shocked at the
state of degeneracy that lies behind the badges worn by
our so-called "finest", who are now just as easily viewed as
more white trash rife-raft as the people they are suppose
to protect us from. Who will protect us from these sorry
people is what we really need to be worried about! How
will we come together to force changes in these agencies
run amok with people who are totally unaccountable for
their woeful incompetence and inept regard for human life?

From the details released so far, it is clear that this young
man's killing was not justified in any manner. This was big
time botched police raid poorly thought out and haphazardly
executed leaving tragedy in it's wake. The truth will stand
as shadow over whatever lies they spin forth and everyone
employed by Vancouver's law-enforcement agencies ought
to hang their heads in shame for their failure to demand
truth be told and their personal failures to stand up and be

given that we're all sitting at computers in a cozy chair, some of us quoting "friends in the know", were never at the scene, and are depending on third-hand information, i'm mighty surprised at the Righteous Thunderbolts of Judgement i'm seeing hurled around...

in fact, i'd say nothing is clear at all, except that someone is dead.

Cabbie, there are many reported incidents of this happening. As I said above, the recommended course of action is to attempt to yell to the officers outside that you're calling 911 to confirm they're police officers, then do so. Upon confirmation you should put the firearm out of reach, then open the door with your free hand in the air.

I and many others I know have also told our girlfriends that if they feel a person attempting to pull them over isn't an officer they should dial 911 and continue driving until their status is confirmed.

Jack & Eric, I don't defend anyone without knowing the facts. Unfortunately, we members of the general public very rarely get to hear them. My opinion may sound a bit slanted in the favor of the man because A) he was in his home and B) the police chose to serve the warrant in the middle of the night.

"in fact, i'd say nothing is clear at all, except that someone is dead."

Actually I would say two things are clear here.

1. Someone is dead. AND
2. He is dead because he came to the door with a gun in his hand.

Many of the folks here are arguing whether he was within his "rights" to come to the door with the gun. Or whether the cops were justified in shooting him just because he had a gun. Or whether they would have come to the door with a gun.

But the most probable truth is. If he had not come to the door with a gun in his hand. He would still be alive.

In this situation.

Greg C

I just heard an update on this on KPAM.

Whew, am I ever glad that all of that deadly marijuana is off of the streets. Indeed, we can all sleep easier tonight.

The poor guy who was shot is just more collateral damage in our great Patriotic War on Drugs. This is something I think we are all willing to live with, as that War has been such a smashing success.

I take a conservative position on many things, but the war on (certain) drugs certainly isn't one of them.

I'll be taking my wifebeaters to the Goodwill.

So what can we learn, what is the moral of this tragedy. Own a gun or not? answer the door with one or not? Live in a better area? Do not sublease? if you answer the door with a gun be wearing a bullet proof vest as well?

I don't think this story teaches us anything, it is just sad and pointless.

Funny thing was when I clicked on Jack's link I had just seen the picture with him in the pool. I though "bear arms" must be a story about a sunburn or body hair. I was disappointed.

I do have a bear back, but I get that taken care of.

This guy didn't even come to the door. He just looked out the window while holding a gun and it sounds like he didn't even point it.If somoene is pounding at my house in the middle of the night the first thing I would do is grab a gun and investigate.As For those of you that say he should have dialed 911, there really isn't time for that in some situations especially with some of the botched 911 responses we have read about lately in the news.

My question surrounds the claim by the officer that he saw Sean with a gun in his hand and that the safety was off. Now, how could he have seen that the safety was off when looking through a window? I appreciate all of the discussion surrounding this tragedy and want to let you know that we were friends with Sean. He was a kind and gentle person. We are absolutely devestated by this killing and are trying our best to console our son who was one of Sean's closest friend. I have always supported the actions by most police officers, but this event has too many questions surrounding it. No matter how you feel about it, remember that a loved one was taken from his family and friends.

The pantie-wetting "progressives" of Portland would be marching in the streets if this guy's melanin levels were a bit higher. But since he's "white trash" and worse yet, a gunowner, the liberal hypocrites will either ignore it or blame it on his evil evil gun. Oh if only we didn't have loaded guns in our homes.....waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Change your panties ecohuman, you're starting to drip.

And what on earth would calling 911 do? It's the presence of the cops that's the problem. The solution is not more freaking cops. This is clearly entirely their fault. Just another drug war murder by gangstas with badges.

Now, how could he have seen that the safety was off when looking through a window?

There's no way anybody could have seen the safety was off, especially at night. Utterly and completely impossible.

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