I thought I had made it when a reader of this blog set up a Wikipedia page on me. But I see my days in those lofty ranks may be numbered. The page now has a big old box at the top that says:
An editor has expressed a concern that the subject of the article does not satisfy the notability guideline for Biographies.
If you are familiar with the subject matter, please expand the article to establish its notability. The best way to address this concern is to reference published, third-party sources about the subject. If notability cannot be established, the article is more likely to be considered for deletion, per Wikipedia: Guide to deletion. (See also Wikipedia: Notability.)
This article has been tagged since May 2007.
"Published, third-party sources about the subject." Hmmmm. Don't know if this would count. Or this. How about this?
Anyway, if you're a Wiki editor type, perhaps you could prolong my moment in the spotlight.
UPDATE, 10:23 p.m.: "Ask and ye shall receive." Someone has come in and added some references to the Wiki that have caused the evil box to go away. My sincere thanks to "Fruits" for the prompt action.
Comments (22)
The main Portland page is a mention of BarFly in the media section (erroniously as a weekly, we are actually more of a we-get-around-to-it-ly): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,OR#Media
Still it, kind of gives us authoritative street cred, despite not having an entry of our own.
So, as a representative of a Portland media outlet whose mention has gone unchallenged, I say I say "Aye! Jack Bog is a notable Portland blogger. Allow his wiki bio to remain."
I am definitely a "wiki type," having made over 3000 edits to Wikipedia in the last couple years, mediated several disputes, etc. If I can brag for a sec, I'd say I have a very good understanding of the culture, and of how to get things done.
I'd be happy to help out on keeping the article on Wikipedia, but only if there's a genuine desire to engage in the process, and "do it right." For instance, removing the {{notability}} tag without engaging in a discussion, or making claims on the about the blog - the things that brought this to my attention to begin with - will actually work against the goal of keeping the article online.
I'll keep an eye on this blog post; if anyone wants suggestions, ask away.
OK, I'm going out for a beer, and so I won't be able to follow this drama if it extends into the wee hours. So let me make this as clear as I can.
I have absolutely no involvement whatsoever in this issue, beyond my posts here. I don't really care too much whether or not Wikipedia has a BoJack entry or not, but I like the blog, and consider myself a (very small) part of the community that has sprung up around it.
So when I saw a request to "help out," I was willing to do so.
I can understand why you might have initially thought I was the person who put the {{notability}} tag up there, since he/she was anonymous. But if you don't take me at my word when I offer to help, I'm not going to bother "defending myself" or whatever. It's not my drama, I don't have anything invested. If I can help, great; if you don't want my help, that's fine too.
Pete -- I sincerely appreciated your help, and, not knowing the Wiki mechanics at all, was just curious as to how my entry got flagged. As I said in a comment here a moment ago, I suspect it was a robot.
Have a good beer. I regard you as a friend, not a foe, of this blog.
p.s. This seems like an appropriate moment to note one of my bigtime MSM pet peeves. Pretty often, you'll see some reporter or columnist say something like, "And as you can plainly see - this Wikipedia article has some blatant errors in it. Don't trust Wikipedia."
Anybody that writes such a thing is complicit in the error. The whole point of a community-created media like Wikipedia is that when you find an error, you correct it.
Unlike Pete, I'm not a regular editor. But I am a regular reader of Wikipedia. When I see an error, a bit of bad grammar, or a typo - or a place where my own expertise or knowledge of sources can be helpful - I take a moment and fix it.
Seriously, it takes like 20 seconds. And you don't even need a login (though that's recommended.)
By contributing to the commons, we all get a better resource.
Aha. You're right. I didn't bother clicking on the "250" and "500" links - assuming that their presence meant that there was something there. But no -- just about 20 edits or so.
I see around a dozen and a half edits, all on one day. Science stuff, radio and television, vacuum tubes, and the surname "Dufay." Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Huh?
Cool, I had no idea there's a crator named Dufay, on the dark side of the moon.
67.100.123.188 is the IP address. Isn't there a program that identifies this? I'm no Wikipedia sort, don't touch the stuff, but there has been some "Frank" who's posted here and there where I generally post...defying my request to distinguish himself from me.
The IP address points to Covad Communications in San Jose, which I don't think narrows it down much. It's not someone who's ever commented on this blog, nor is it anyone whose IP address I have banned from accessing the site. 'Tis a mystery, but let us hope not a significant one.
IP address: 67.100.123.188 (copy)
IP country: United States
IP Address state:
IP Address city: Seattle
IP latitude: 47.595100
IP longitude: -122.332603
ISP: Covad Communications
Organization: Covad Communications
Hmmm...Seattle. Don't know any Dufays up there. If I know the latitude and longitude does that mean I can call in a missle strike? :-)
Man. All I get on WIkipedia is "b!X is an artist formerly known as 'slowdog', aka 'Charlie Mange' (although he denies this)." over on the "Bix (disambguation)" page.
Hum? My brother is wiring up folks in CA for Covad. He could . . . nah.
Don't sweat it. Starker ain't notable enough either . . . and he too was concerned with equity.
Do you seek notability? Or WikiVanity.
I am a living fact set who's arguments could go up in flames without proper advocacy.
If your heart and soul can pour into the equity issue (unalienability of Social Security "Benefits") then I am little more than a living breathing fact set . . . (continued).
There's one thing that jumps out to me about that IP address: assuming that it's one person, he/she has made a whole lot of edits, without any messages being left for him/her - EVER. That's very unusual, and suggests that the person is not pushing a radical point of view, or anything like that; if he/she were out of step with other editors, that would have generated a comment somewhere along the line.
That jives with my general sense that Jack B. is in the grey area of notability, where there's no clear answer of whether or not the article should exist.
Given all of that, it's likely that somebody else will come along at some point with the same concern. So, focusing on the individual that flagged the article this time will not be too helpful in the long run.
Fleshing out the article, creating meaningful links to and from other articles, and providing citations are the only way to go, if the goal is to make the article stay online for the long haul. What makes Jack B. notable? What ties him to other notable entities?
Noting "candidates gone wild" hosts at the Bus Project page, with a link, would be helpful. More detail about significant trials and writings would be another. Basically, the same stuff that would make a story about Jack B. newsworthy.
Full citations, inserted as footnotes, are helpful, too. I'll make a sample on the page out of the Jaynes article, to illustrate the formatting.
What, are we done with this? I thought I'd come back to more comments...
But, I do see that I neglected to say, thanks for the welcoming words...and sorry if I was a little prickly earlier.
Also, I totally agree with Kari re: Wikipedia as an example of the commons. Writing it off as "unreliable," as though its central goal is to compete with oldschool media outlets or encyclopedias, utterly misses the point. Resources this accessible, and editable, influence thought in many tangible and intangible ways...they serve as gathering points for new kinds of communities, present new educational opportunities, etc. etc. etc. Getting in there and "getting your hands dirty" is the only way to understand this sort of thing, and it's not hard to do.
Wikipedia doesn't need anyone's blessing. Just look at the traffic it's generated -- an astounding success. And depending on the topic, it's a research tool of first resort.
Charamba, Douro 2008
Horse Heaven Hills, Cabernet 2010
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills Pinot Grigio 2011
Avignonesi, Montepulciano 2004
Lorelle, Willamette Valley Pinot Noir 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2007
Mercedes Eguren, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Lorelle, Columbia Valley Cabernet 2011
Purple Moon, Merlot 2011
Purple Moon, Chardonnnay 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend No. 12
Opula Red Blend 2010
Liberte, Pinot Noir 2010
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Indian Wells Red Blend 2010
Woodbridge, Chardonnay 2011
King Estate, Pinot Noir 2011
Famille Perrin, Cotes du Rhone Villages 2010
Columbia Crest, Les Chevaux Red 2010
14 Hands, Hot to Trot White Blend
Familia Bianchi, Malbec 2009
Terrapin Cellars, Pinot Gris 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2009
Campo Viejo, Rioja, Termpranillo 2010
Ravenswood, Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2010
Waterbrook, Reserve Merlot 2009
Lorelle, Horse Heaven Hills, Pinot Grigio 2011
Tarantas, Rose
Chateau Lajarre, Bordeaux 2009
La Vielle Ferme, Rose 2011
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio 2011
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir 2009
Lello, Douro Tinto 2009
Quinson Fils, Cotes de Provence Rose 2011
Anindor, Pinot Gris 2010
Buenas Ondas, Syrah Rose 2010
Les Fiefs d'Anglars, Malbec 2009
14 Hands, Pinot Gris 2011
Conundrum 2012
Condes de Albarei, Albariño 2011
Columbia Crest, Walter Clore Private Reserve 2007
Penelope Sanchez, Garnacha Syrah 2010
Canoe Ridge, Merlot 2007
Atalaya do Mar, Godello 2010
Vega Montan, Mencia
Benvolio, Pinot Grigio
Nobilo Icon, Pinot Noir, Marlborough 2009
Portuga, Rose 2011
Revelation, Chardonnay, Pays d'Oc 2010
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2005
Monte Alto, Tinto Reserva 2005
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Cabernet, Indian Wells 2009
Espiral, Vinho Rose
Vin-Koru, Pinot Gris 2011
14 Hands, Hot to Trot Red 2009
Rodney Strong, Cabernet, Sonoma 2009
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #11
Portuga, White 2010
La Bourgeoisie, Red 2009
Januik, Red 2009
Three Rivers, River's Red 2008
Kirkland, Alexander Valley Merlot 2008
Muga, Rioja Rose 2010
Quinta das Amoras, Vinho Tinto 2009
Mauro Molino, Barbera d'Alba 2009
Garda Chiaretto Rose
Columbia Crest, Two Vines Vineyard 10 White
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris, Columbia Valley 2009
L'Hortus, Rose de Saignee 2010
Maculan, Pino & Toi 2008
McKinley Springs, Bombing Range Red 2008
Trader Joe's Pinot Gris 2009
Montes Alpha, Cabernet 2007
Gran Sasso, Sangiovese, Terre di Chieti 2009
Garda, Classico Chiaretto Rose
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 1999
Picos del Montgo, Tempranillo 2008
Chateau de Montmirail, Vacqueyras 2008
La Granja 360, Syrah 2009
Montgras, Carmenere Reserva 2009
Lange, Pinot Gris 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Cabernet 2008
Kirkland, Pinot Grigio 2010
Trader Joe's Coastal Syrah 2009
Columbia Crest, Horse Heaven Hills Merlot 2008
Trader Joe's Coastal Chardonnay 2009
Vieux Papes Red
Domaine de l'Aujardiere, Chardonnay 2009
Santa Rita, Cabernet, Medalla Real 2007
Penfold's, Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet 2008
Guild, Red, Lot #02 2008
Dievole, Dievolino Sangiovese 2008
Laforet, Burgogne Chardonnay 2009
Columbia Winery, Merlot 2007
Bonterra, Cabernet 2008
Elk Cove, Pinot Gris 2009
Maquis Lien 2006
Scott Paul, Pinot Noir, Le Paulee 2007
The Occasional Book
Hope Larson - A Wrinkle in Time, the Graphic Novel
Rudyard Kipling - Kim
Peter Ames Carlin - Bruce
Fran Cannon Slayton - When the Whistle Blows
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt
Road Work
Miles run year to date: 29
At this date last year: 66
Total run in 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269
Comments (22)
The main Portland page is a mention of BarFly in the media section (erroniously as a weekly, we are actually more of a we-get-around-to-it-ly):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,OR#Media
Still it, kind of gives us authoritative street cred, despite not having an entry of our own.
So, as a representative of a Portland media outlet whose mention has gone unchallenged, I say I say "Aye! Jack Bog is a notable Portland blogger. Allow his wiki bio to remain."
Posted by Kyle | May 8, 2007 10:03 PM
Not bad.
I am definitely a "wiki type," having made over 3000 edits to Wikipedia in the last couple years, mediated several disputes, etc. If I can brag for a sec, I'd say I have a very good understanding of the culture, and of how to get things done.
I'd be happy to help out on keeping the article on Wikipedia, but only if there's a genuine desire to engage in the process, and "do it right." For instance, removing the {{notability}} tag without engaging in a discussion, or making claims on the about the blog - the things that brought this to my attention to begin with - will actually work against the goal of keeping the article online.
I'll keep an eye on this blog post; if anyone wants suggestions, ask away.
Posted by Pete Forsyth | May 8, 2007 10:47 PM
he things that brought this to my attention to begin with
Are you the "editor" that flagged it to begin with?
Posted by Jack Bog | May 8, 2007 10:49 PM
Be careful, Jack, oh so careful what you wish for, to come to you. You may get it.
a.k.a. 'it is better to give than to receive.'
Posted by Tenskwatawa | May 8, 2007 10:51 PM
Do you mean that some troll will come in and trash the Wiki entry? I have considered that.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 8, 2007 10:52 PM
Nope.
Posted by Pete Forsyth | May 8, 2007 11:11 PM
It seems to me that the "editor" was actually some sort of program that checked for incoming and outgoing references.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 8, 2007 11:20 PM
OK, I'm going out for a beer, and so I won't be able to follow this drama if it extends into the wee hours. So let me make this as clear as I can.
I have absolutely no involvement whatsoever in this issue, beyond my posts here. I don't really care too much whether or not Wikipedia has a BoJack entry or not, but I like the blog, and consider myself a (very small) part of the community that has sprung up around it.
So when I saw a request to "help out," I was willing to do so.
I can understand why you might have initially thought I was the person who put the {{notability}} tag up there, since he/she was anonymous. But if you don't take me at my word when I offer to help, I'm not going to bother "defending myself" or whatever. It's not my drama, I don't have anything invested. If I can help, great; if you don't want my help, that's fine too.
Posted by Pete Forsyth | May 8, 2007 11:23 PM
Pete -- I sincerely appreciated your help, and, not knowing the Wiki mechanics at all, was just curious as to how my entry got flagged. As I said in a comment here a moment ago, I suspect it was a robot.
Have a good beer. I regard you as a friend, not a foe, of this blog.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 8, 2007 11:26 PM
Like Pete, I haven't yet dipped into this particular Wiki entry.
Poking around a bit, it seems that the {{notability}} tag got added by a person - not a bot. An anonymous person, but one that regularly makes edits all over Wikipedia.
The IP address for that person is 67.100.123.188. You might check out your backend comment archives to see if it's one of your commenters.
Posted by Kari Chisholm | May 8, 2007 11:35 PM
p.s. This seems like an appropriate moment to note one of my bigtime MSM pet peeves. Pretty often, you'll see some reporter or columnist say something like, "And as you can plainly see - this Wikipedia article has some blatant errors in it. Don't trust Wikipedia."
Anybody that writes such a thing is complicit in the error. The whole point of a community-created media like Wikipedia is that when you find an error, you correct it.
Unlike Pete, I'm not a regular editor. But I am a regular reader of Wikipedia. When I see an error, a bit of bad grammar, or a typo - or a place where my own expertise or knowledge of sources can be helpful - I take a moment and fix it.
Seriously, it takes like 20 seconds. And you don't even need a login (though that's recommended.)
By contributing to the commons, we all get a better resource.
Posted by Kari Chisholm | May 8, 2007 11:39 PM
An anonymous person, but one that regularly makes edits all over Wikipedia.
I see around a dozen and a half edits, all on one day. Science stuff, radio and television, vacuum tubes, and the surname "Dufay." Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 8, 2007 11:59 PM
Aha. You're right. I didn't bother clicking on the "250" and "500" links - assuming that their presence meant that there was something there. But no -- just about 20 edits or so.
Posted by Kari Chisholm | May 9, 2007 12:32 AM
I see around a dozen and a half edits, all on one day. Science stuff, radio and television, vacuum tubes, and the surname "Dufay." Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Huh?
Cool, I had no idea there's a crator named Dufay, on the dark side of the moon.
67.100.123.188 is the IP address. Isn't there a program that identifies this? I'm no Wikipedia sort, don't touch the stuff, but there has been some "Frank" who's posted here and there where I generally post...defying my request to distinguish himself from me.
Gotta wonder...
Posted by Frank Dufay | May 9, 2007 2:03 AM
The IP address points to Covad Communications in San Jose, which I don't think narrows it down much. It's not someone who's ever commented on this blog, nor is it anyone whose IP address I have banned from accessing the site. 'Tis a mystery, but let us hope not a significant one.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 9, 2007 2:07 AM
IP address: 67.100.123.188 (copy)
IP country: United States
IP Address state:
IP Address city: Seattle
IP latitude: 47.595100
IP longitude: -122.332603
ISP: Covad Communications
Organization: Covad Communications
Hmmm...Seattle. Don't know any Dufays up there. If I know the latitude and longitude does that mean I can call in a missle strike? :-)
Posted by Frank Dufay | May 9, 2007 2:12 AM
I think Covad is like Comcast -- in which case, it's one of a zillion faceless Covad customers.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 9, 2007 2:24 AM
Man. All I get on WIkipedia is "b!X is an artist formerly known as 'slowdog', aka 'Charlie Mange' (although he denies this)." over on the "Bix (disambguation)" page.
Hrmph!
Posted by b!X | May 9, 2007 8:09 AM
Hum? My brother is wiring up folks in CA for Covad. He could . . . nah.
Don't sweat it. Starker ain't notable enough either . . . and he too was concerned with equity.
Do you seek notability? Or WikiVanity.
I am a living fact set who's arguments could go up in flames without proper advocacy.
If your heart and soul can pour into the equity issue (unalienability of Social Security "Benefits") then I am little more than a living breathing fact set . . . (continued).
Posted by pdxnag | May 9, 2007 8:32 AM
There's one thing that jumps out to me about that IP address: assuming that it's one person, he/she has made a whole lot of edits, without any messages being left for him/her - EVER. That's very unusual, and suggests that the person is not pushing a radical point of view, or anything like that; if he/she were out of step with other editors, that would have generated a comment somewhere along the line.
That jives with my general sense that Jack B. is in the grey area of notability, where there's no clear answer of whether or not the article should exist.
Given all of that, it's likely that somebody else will come along at some point with the same concern. So, focusing on the individual that flagged the article this time will not be too helpful in the long run.
Fleshing out the article, creating meaningful links to and from other articles, and providing citations are the only way to go, if the goal is to make the article stay online for the long haul. What makes Jack B. notable? What ties him to other notable entities?
Noting "candidates gone wild" hosts at the Bus Project page, with a link, would be helpful. More detail about significant trials and writings would be another. Basically, the same stuff that would make a story about Jack B. newsworthy.
Full citations, inserted as footnotes, are helpful, too. I'll make a sample on the page out of the Jaynes article, to illustrate the formatting.
Hope this helps...good luck!
-Pete
Posted by Pete Forsyth | May 9, 2007 1:15 PM
What, are we done with this? I thought I'd come back to more comments...
But, I do see that I neglected to say, thanks for the welcoming words...and sorry if I was a little prickly earlier.
Also, I totally agree with Kari re: Wikipedia as an example of the commons. Writing it off as "unreliable," as though its central goal is to compete with oldschool media outlets or encyclopedias, utterly misses the point. Resources this accessible, and editable, influence thought in many tangible and intangible ways...they serve as gathering points for new kinds of communities, present new educational opportunities, etc. etc. etc. Getting in there and "getting your hands dirty" is the only way to understand this sort of thing, and it's not hard to do.
-Pete
Posted by Pete Forsyth | May 10, 2007 3:59 PM
Wikipedia doesn't need anyone's blessing. Just look at the traffic it's generated -- an astounding success. And depending on the topic, it's a research tool of first resort.
Posted by Jack Bog | May 10, 2007 4:10 PM