Detail, east Portland photo, courtesy Miles Hochstein / Portland Ground.



For old times' sake
The bojack bumper sticker -- only $1.50!

To order, click here.







Excellent tunes -- free! And on your browser right now. Just click on Radio Bojack!






E-mail us here.

About

This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on December 8, 2006 4:24 AM. The previous post in this blog was Google Search of the Week. The next post in this blog is Bully for Boeing. Many more can be found on the main index page or by looking through the archives.

Archives

Links

Law and Taxation
How Appealing
TaxProf Blog
Mauled Again
Tax Appellate Blog
A Taxing Matter
TaxVox
Tax.com
Josh Marquis
Native America, Discovered and Conquered
The Yin Blog
Ernie the Attorney
Conglomerate
Above the Law
The Volokh Conspiracy
Going Concern
Bag and Baggage
Wealth Strategies Journal
Jim Hamilton's World of Securities Regulation
myCorporateResource.com
World of Work
The Faculty Lounge
Lowering the Bar
OrCon Law

Hap'nin' Guys
Tony Pierce
Parkway Rest Stop
Utterly Boring.com
Along the Gradyent
Dwight Jaynes
Bob Borden
Dingleberry Gazette
The Red Electric
Iced Borscht
Jeremy Blachman
Dean's Rhetorical Flourish
Straight White Guy
HinesSight
Onfocus
Jalpuna
Beerdrinker.org
As Time Goes By
Dave Wagner
Jeff Selis
Alas, a Blog
Scott Hendison
Sansego
The View Through the Windshield
Appliance Blog
The Bleat

Hap'nin' Gals
My Whim is Law
Lelo in Nopo
Attorney at Large
Linda Kruschke
The Non-Consumer Advocate
10 Steps to Finding Your Happy Place
A Pig of Success
Attorney at Large
Margaret and Helen
Kimberlee Jaynes
Cornelia Seigneur
Mireio
And Sew It Goes
Mile 73
Rainy Day Thoughts
That Black Girl
Posie Gets Cozy
{AE}
Cat Eyes
Rhi in Pink
Althouse
GirlHacker
Ragwaters, Bitters, and Blue Ruin
Frytopia
Rose City Journal
Type Like the Wind

Portland and Oregon
Isaac Laquedem
StumptownBlogger
Rantings of a [Censored] Bus Driver
Jeff Mapes
Vintage Portland
The Portlander
South Waterfront
Amanda Fritz
O City Hall Reporters
Guilty Carnivore
Old Town by Larry Norton
The Alaunt
Bend Blogs
Lost Oregon
Cafe Unknown
Tin Zeroes
David's Oregon Picayune
Mark Nelsen's Weather Blog
Travel Oregon Blog
Portland Daily Photo
Portland Building Ads
Portland Food and Drink.com
Dave Knows Portland
Idaho's Portugal
Alameda Old House History
MLK in Motion
LoveSalem

Retired from Blogging
Various Observations...
The Daily E-Mail
Saving James
Portland Freelancer
Furious Nads (b!X)
Izzle Pfaff
The Grich
Kevin Allman
AboutItAll - Oregon
Lost in the Details
Worldwide Pablo
Tales from the Stump
Whitman Boys
Misterblue
Two Pennies
This Stony Planet
1221 SW 4th
Twisty
I am a Fish
Here Today
What If...?
Superinky Fixations
Pinktalk
Mellow-Drama
The Rural Bus Route
Another Blogger
Mikeyman's Computer Treehouse
Rosenblog
Portland Housing Blog

Wonderfully Wacky
Dave Barry
Borowitz Report
Blort
Stuff White People Like
Worst of the Web

Valuable Time-Wasters
My Gallery of Jacks
Litterbox, On the Prowl
Litterbox, Bag of Bones
Litterbox, Scratch
Maukie
Ride That Donkey
Singin' Horses
Rally Monkey
Simon Swears
Strong Bad's E-mail

Oregon News
KGW-TV
The Oregonian
Portland Tribune
KOIN
Willamette Week
KATU
The Sentinel
Southeast Examiner
Northwest Examiner
Sellwood Bee
Mid-County Memo
Vancouver Voice
Eugene Register-Guard
OPB
Topix.net - Portland
Salem Statesman-Journal
Oregon Capitol News
Portland Business Journal
Daily Journal of Commerce
Oregon Business
KPTV
Portland Info Net
McMinnville News Register
Lake Oswego Review
The Daily Astorian
Bend Bulletin
Corvallis Gazette-Times
Roseburg News-Review
Medford Mail-Tribune
Ashland Daily Tidings
Newport News-Times
Albany Democrat-Herald
The Eugene Weekly
Portland IndyMedia
The Columbian

Music-Related
The Beatles
Bruce Springsteen
Seal
Sting
Joni Mitchell
Ella Fitzgerald
Steve Earle
Joe Ely
Stevie Wonder
Lou Rawls

E-mail, Feeds, 'n' Stuff

Friday, December 8, 2006

Oregon: Things used to look different here

Here's a revolutionary idea: Tolls on the "freeway" bridges over the Columbia. And it looks like everybody's favorite, the Portland Business Alliance, is pushing for them.

Hey, while we're at it, why not over the Willamette? That was one of Vera's bright ideas. If it were up to her, there would have been a pay turnstile on your garage door. Right along with the parking meters on streets like Hawthorne. You see, we have no money for transportation infrastructure unless it's right next to a condo bunker.

The best part will be when they tell us that the bridge tolls will be "cheap, and temporary." Sure.

Comments (25)

I've always thought Oregon should charge admission. Why not put up toll booths at all the border crossings?

I actually don't have a problem with putting tolls on a new bridge, but keep them off the I-5 and I-205 bridges.

People who use the Columbia River bridges should pay at least part of the cost of the new bridge. Pretty common sense.

We have hit a tipping point folks. That’s the point where things that used to be impossible…now become not just likely but nearly certain. The Columbia river crossing task force now says we may need bridge tolls on both of the interstate bridges over the River. If you think that’s a crazy idea…just remember the real agenda of agencies like ODOT. Like Medieval kings They want to increase revenue…no matter the cost…and the want more control over the things in their realm. And it fits another agenda too. For a long time, transportation bureaucrats have whined that you “simply can’t build your way out of congestion”. This is bunk…and they know it. But now, the big lie has become so ingrained…they brag about how they don’t want to decrease congestion…or even increase your morning or evening commute. Just consider this quote from the Portland Tribune “the federal cost-effectiveness formula, which focuses on moving people quickly and efficiently, is unfair to the streetcar – and bad from the perspective of urban planning. As Smith explains, “The easier it is to move people from point A to point B, the harder it is to contain sprawl.” Putting tolls on both bridges brings in money, retards traffic, slows the commute…and makes another billion dollar light rail line look more attractive than it really is.

...but keep them off the I-5 and I-205 bridges.

The new bridge is needed and won't come cheap. $2 billion before graft and tram. It's gotta be paid for somehow.

Maybe a nickel/gallon on gas pumped within a certain radius of each bridge?

Personally I'm for a toll once the new bridge is up and running. But am open to alternatives.

I disagree. Let the people who feel they need a new bridge pay for it. If you want a faster commute, then you can pony up the $2. If not, take the old bridges.

Hard to see how a toll booth could make it any slower to cross the current I-5 at rush hour. If the tolls pay for a better crossing, it should be more efficient for all. In Atlanta, the GA 400 has toll booths, but most commuters use an electronic pass that allows them to drive through without stopping, so they have no delay due to the toll. And going through the actual booth didn't slow you down more than a minute or two - again, which could easily be made up for if the overall crossing situation is improved.

Also hard to see a more equitable way to pay for the improvements needed than to target the folks who use the new bridges for some of the costs.

Maybe none of you were here then, but the current bridge over the Columbia had a toll on it until the bridge was paid for.

until the bridge was paid for.

I wouldn't trust the current (and future) politicians around here to live up to any promise to make the toll temporary. Those days are over.

Gosh.

Seems to me some people 'round this blog tend to get real hot and bothered at the subsidies Tri-Met gets to keep fares for MAX service under the rate needed to fully cover construction costs. But when it comes time to make freeway bridge users share some of the construction cost of a new bridge, that's a problem. I thought anti-MAX folks were saying user fees were a good thing, but apparently I misunderstood.

Anyway, tolls on bridges are a common way to defray construction costs. The 101 bridge in Astoria had a toll for what, 30 years? Even the Interstate bridge itself had a toll twice in its history.

Adding a toll to Glenn Jackson to keep traffic from diverting is of course missing the point. People use Glenn Jackson now to avoid delays. If so many people divert that way to avoid the toll, then traffic will stodge up there and the problem will be reversed. Traffic will balance out over time on its own.

I'm not convinced we should give up on the idea of tolls on not only bridges but our so-called freeway system in general. If the revenues were dedicated to maintenance, safety and meeting future needs (and not diverted by the pols to other "transportation" uses) then I say let's take a look. It's hard to argue that the existing system is providing either a sufficient level or decent quality at a reasonable cost.

One way or another we're going to pay for that pavement and I'd prefer to have the smooth, high-speed, relatively uncluttered autoroutes of western europe than the crowded, dangerous rubble that passes for a freeway system here. The user costs can be kept relatively low and, of course, a non-toll alternative would always have to be available if the driver wants to put up with heavier traffic and a slower trip time.


Those days are over.

*sigh*

I know. But we gotta do something. I'm tired of crossing the river after work knowing I'm trapped down there until after 7.

"Seems to me some people 'round this blog tend to get real hot and bothered"

Just human nature. Folks don't like to pay for things that other people use; they just like other people to pay for the things they use themselves.

Try this:

No Toll Till Trimet Pays its way.

Thanks
JK

So,

A question. I would guess Karlock would know. Does the subsidy for Tri-Met bus and MAX passengers go to retiring construction debt or does it go to operations?

Just so I don't misunderstand.

How about turnstiles to get on MAX? I surmise that revenues would increase with a slight dip in ridership.

One thing Jack's eloquent post about New York City didn't mention is their subway system. Not it's efficiencies in moving a large contingent of people, but it's effectiveness assuring fares are collected. A simple procedure know as a turnstile

"A simple procedure know as a turnstile"

Leaving aside the important issue of whether a turnstile is a procedure, would't you have to bury (or elevate) all the bus lines, etc., to make it work?

That's the positive spirit, Allan!

I'd bet modern technology could incorporate a turnstile equivalent in the doorway of busses and MAX. Think of the federal money we could get for that!

Of course, collecting fares is so unimportant in the larger picture. So "capitalistic", if you will.

"One way or another we're going to pay for that pavement and I'd prefer to have the smooth, high-speed, relatively uncluttered autoroutes of western europe than the crowded, dangerous rubble that passes for a freeway system here."

Check out the roads in New York and New Jersey to see what all that toll revenue does not buy you. Lots of tolls, yet roads that make ours look like the autobahn.

"No Toll Till Trimet Pays its way"

How 'bout making bridge tolls permanent and raising bridge tolls to issue lots of bonds. Then Tri-Met won't have to pay for itself, or better yet it will provide a nice capital source for local pols to fund backslapping deals with and buy lots more shiny toys.

This whole project is another ploy to extend MAX and build more condo farms.

They are going to replace a 6 lane structure with another 6 lane structure (but with aux lanes) + light rail.

2+ billion dollars, numerous "studies," and 20 more years of waiting will get us more traffic congestion and a shiny new MAX line.


I am glad Portland thinks ahead.

"That's the positive spirit, Allan!"

So, Ricky, you're saying what we need is for the operator to collect the fare. What'll they think of next?
You might be surprised to learn that I think that would be a fine idea. I don't like Fairless Square, and I think there is a significant "moral hazard" factor in free public transit. I've said it here before: to a lot of people, "free" means about the same thing as "worthless". It costs money to collect and enforce fares, but it's well worth it. The current system hardly has even token enforcement. That's unfair to users who actually pay, to say nothing of taxpayers who pick up the rest of the tab. A side benefit is, fare enforcement would raise the general level of dress and hygiene of mass transit users.

I hope many of you bloggers haven't forgotten that we pay over 40 cents per gallon in gas taxes which are suppose to only go to roads. We've known that the I-5 bridge needed updating/replacement for over 40 years. Where has there been financil planning?

They actually have all the money they need. Check their comprehensive annual financial report. This is just about getting more from you to accelerate construction projects to keep the gravy train growing and flowing instead of having to keep it flat. They want the money now and they need to keep the ability to finance at preferential rates to do more later. The bottom line is more make work sooner.

"we pay over 40 cents per gallon in gas taxes which are suppose to only go to roads"

Well, not quite. 24 cents to the state (which can only go for roads), 3 cents to Multnomah County (currently dedicated to their Willamette river bridges), and 18.3 cents to the Feds (which is at the whim of Congress to allocate).

RR wants to know:
"Does the subsidy for Tri-Met bus and MAX passengers go to retiring construction debt or does it go to operations?"

Tri-Met requires subsidies for both construction and operations. In 2004, fares covered only 20 percent of operating costs and, of course, 0 percent of capital costs.

On the broader issue, why is Jack so strung out about tolls? We have to pay for the roads somehow. Gas taxes aren't doing the job, partly because they don't automatically adjust with inflation or when cars get more fuel efficient. Plus, gas taxes don't make sure that the people who get the benefits are the ones paying the costs.

Oregon was the first state to have gas taxes. If they had electronic tolls back then, we probably would have used them. They make a lot more sense. We just have to make sure that tolls collected are not diverted to inane projects like streetcars.

One more thing: the only reason the bridges are expected to cost $2 billion are because Metro gold plates everything. If Metro weren't spending years planning, planning, and triple planning, we could have had these bridges years ago.


Sponsors


As a lawyer/blogger, I get
to be a member of:

In Vino Veritas

Lange, Pinot Gris 2015
Kiona, Lemberger 2014
Willamette Valley, Pinot Gris 2015
Aix, Rosé de Provence 2016
Marchigüe, Cabernet 2013
Inazío Irruzola, Getariako Txakolina Rosé 2015
Maso Canali, Pinot Grigio 2015
Campo Viejo, Rioja Reserva 2011
Kirkland, Côtes de Provence Rosé 2016
Cantele, Salice Salentino Reserva 2013
Whispering Angel, Côtes de Provence Rosé 2013
Avissi, Prosecco
Cleto Charli, Lambrusco di Sorbara Secco, Vecchia Modena
Pique Poul, Rosé 2016
Edmunds St. John, Bone-Jolly Rosé 2016
Stoller, Pinot Noir Rosé 2016
Chehalem, Inox Chardonnay 2015
The Four Graces, Pinot Gris 2015
Gascón, Colosal Red 2013
Cardwell Hill, Pinot Gris 2015
L'Ecole No. 41, Merlot 2013
Della Terra, Anonymus
Willamette Valley, Dijon Clone Chardonnay 2013
Wraith, Cabernet, Eidolon Estate 2012
Januik, Red 2015
Tomassi, Valpolicella, Rafaél, 2014
Sharecropper's Pinot Noir 2013
Helix, Pomatia Red Blend 2013
La Espera, Cabernet 2011
Campo Viejo, Rioja Reserva 2011
Villa Antinori, Toscana 2013
Locations, Spanish Red Wine
Locations, Argentinian Red Wine
La Antigua Clásico, Rioja 2011
Shatter, Grenache, Maury 2012
Argyle, Vintage Brut 2011
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #16 Abacela, Fiesta Tempranillo 2014
Benton Hill, Pinot Gris 2015
Primarius, Pinot Gris 2015
Januik, Merlot 2013
Napa Cellars, Cabernet 2013
J. Bookwalter, Protagonist 2012
LAN, Rioja Edicion Limitada 2011
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Rutherford 2009
Denada Cellars, Cabernet, Maipo Valley 2014
Marchigüe, Cabernet, Colchagua Valley 2013
Oberon, Cabernet 2014
Hedges, Red Mountain 2012
Balboa, Rose of Grenache 2015
Ontañón, Rioja Reserva 2015
Three Horse Ranch, Pinot Gris 2014
Archery Summit, Vireton Pinot Gris 2014
Nelms Road, Merlot 2013
Chateau Ste. Michelle, Pinot Gris 2014
Conn Creek, Cabernet, Napa 2012
Conn Creek, Cabernet, Napa 2013
Villa Maria, Sauvignon Blanc 2015
G3, Cabernet 2013
Chateau Smith, Cabernet, Washington State 2014
Abacela, Vintner's Blend #16
Willamette Valley, Rose of Pinot Noir, Whole Clusters 2015
Albero, Bobal Rose 2015
Ca' del Baio Barbaresco Valgrande 2012
Goodfellow, Reserve Pinot Gris, Clover 2014
Lugana, San Benedetto 2014
Wente, Cabernet, Charles Wetmore 2011
La Espera, Cabernet 2011
King Estate, Pinot Gris 2015
Adelsheim, Pinot Gris 2015
Trader Joe's, Pinot Gris, Willamette Valley 2015
La Vite Lucente, Toscana Red 2013
St. Francis, Cabernet, Sonoma 2013
Kendall-Jackson, Pinot Noir, California 2013
Beaulieu, Cabernet, Napa Valley 2013
Erath, Pinot Noir, Estate Selection 2012
Abbot's Table, Columbia Valley 2014
Intrinsic, Cabernet 2014
Oyster Bay, Pinot Noir 2010
Occhipinti, SP68 Bianco 2014
Layer Cake, Shiraz 2013
Desert Wind, Ruah 2011
WillaKenzie, Pinot Gris 2014
Abacela, Fiesta Tempranillo 2013
Des Amis, Rose 2014
Dunham, Trautina 2012
RoxyAnn, Claret 2012
Del Ri, Claret 2012
Stoppa, Emilia, Red 2004
Primarius, Pinot Noir 2013
Domaines Bunan, Bandol Rose 2015
Albero, Bobal Rose 2015
Deer Creek, Pinot Gris 2015
Beaulieu, Rutherford Cabernet 2013
Archery Summit, Vireton Pinot Gris 2014
King Estate, Pinot Gris, Backbone 2014
Oberon, Napa Cabernet 2013
Apaltagua, Envero Carmenere Gran Reserva 2013
Chateau des Arnauds, Cuvee des Capucins 2012
Nine Hats, Red 2013
Benziger, Cabernet, Sonoma 2012
Roxy Ann, Claret 2012
Januik, Merlot 2012
Conundrum, White 2013
St. Francis, Sonoma Cabernet 2012

The Occasional Book

Kent Haruf - Our Souls at Night
Peter Carey - True History of the Kelly Gang
Suzanne Collins - The Hunger Games
Amy Stewart - Girl Waits With Gun
Philip Roth - The Plot Against America
Norm Macdonald - Based on a True Story
Christopher Buckley - Boomsday
Ryan Holiday - The Obstacle is the Way
Ruth Sepetys - Between Shades of Gray
Richard Adams - Watership Down
Claire Vaye Watkins - Gold Fame Citrus
Markus Zusak - I am the Messenger
Anthony Doerr - All the Light We Cannot See
James Joyce - Dubliners
Cheryl Strayed - Torch
William Golding - Lord of the Flies
Saul Bellow - Mister Sammler's Planet
Phil Stanford - White House Call Girl
John Kaplan & Jon R. Waltz - The Trial of Jack Ruby
Kent Haruf - Eventide
David Halberstam - Summer of '49
Norman Mailer - The Naked and the Dead
Maria Dermoȗt - The Ten Thousand Things
William Faulkner - As I Lay Dying
Markus Zusak - The Book Thief
Christopher Buckley - Thank You for Smoking
William Shakespeare - Othello
Joseph Conrad - Heart of Darkness
Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything
Cheryl Strayed - Tiny Beautiful Things
Sara Varon - Bake Sale
Stephen King - 11/22/63
Paul Goldstein - Errors and Omissions
Mark Twain - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Steve Martin - Born Standing Up: A Comic's Life
Beverly Cleary - A Girl from Yamhill, a Memoir
Kent Haruf - Plainsong
Hope Larson - A Wrinkle in Time, the Graphic Novel
Rudyard Kipling - Kim
Peter Ames Carlin - Bruce
Fran Cannon Slayton - When the Whistle Blows
Neil Young - Waging Heavy Peace
Mark Bego - Aretha Franklin, the Queen of Soul (2012 ed.)
Jenny Lawson - Let's Pretend This Never Happened
J.D. Salinger - Franny and Zooey
Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol
Timothy Egan - The Big Burn
Deborah Eisenberg - Transactions in a Foreign Currency
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five
Kathryn Lance - Pandora's Genes
Cheryl Strayed - Wild
Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov
Jack London - The House of Pride, and Other Tales of Hawaii
Jack Walker - The Extraordinary Rendition of Vincent Dellamaria
Colum McCann - Let the Great World Spin
Niccolò Machiavelli - The Prince
Harper Lee - To Kill a Mockingbird
Emma McLaughlin & Nicola Kraus - The Nanny Diaries
Brian Selznick - The Invention of Hugo Cabret
Sharon Creech - Walk Two Moons
Keith Richards - Life
F. Sionil Jose - Dusk
Natalie Babbitt - Tuck Everlasting
Justin Halpern - S#*t My Dad Says
Mark Herrmann - The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
Barry Glassner - The Gospel of Food
Phil Stanford - The Peyton-Allan Files
Jesse Katz - The Opposite Field
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited
J.K. Rowling - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
David Sedaris - Holidays on Ice
Donald Miller - A Million Miles in a Thousand Years
Mitch Albom - Have a Little Faith
C.S. Lewis - The Magician's Nephew
F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby
William Shakespeare - A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ivan Doig - Bucking the Sun
Penda Diakité - I Lost My Tooth in Africa
Grace Lin - The Year of the Rat
Oscar Hijuelos - Mr. Ives' Christmas
Madeline L'Engle - A Wrinkle in Time
Steven Hart - The Last Three Miles
David Sedaris - Me Talk Pretty One Day
Karen Armstrong - The Spiral Staircase
Charles Larson - The Portland Murders
Adrian Wojnarowski - The Miracle of St. Anthony
William H. Colby - Long Goodbye
Steven D. Stark - Meet the Beatles
Phil Stanford - Portland Confidential
Rick Moody - Garden State
Jonathan Schwartz - All in Good Time
David Sedaris - Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Anthony Holden - Big Deal
Robert J. Spitzer - The Spirit of Leadership
James McManus - Positively Fifth Street
Jeff Noon - Vurt

Road Work

Miles run year to date: 92
At this date last year: 144
Total run in 2016: 155
In 2015: 271
In 2014: 401
In 2013: 257
In 2012: 129
In 2011: 113
In 2010: 125
In 2009: 67
In 2008: 28
In 2007: 113
In 2006: 100
In 2005: 149
In 2004: 204
In 2003: 269


Clicky Web Analytics