Jeez....why don't they just spend a couple hundred grand on a nice long sidewalk? Walking is faster than those stupid streetcars.

This whole venture reminds of cities who are awarded an Olympic Games. They suddenly dump millions or billions into fancy venues, 'cool' attractions, etc, all because they want the huge influx of tourism dollars for the two weeks of the games. Afterward, it just sits. The difference, of course, is that SoWhat isn't going to get that two week influx of cash.

"down a rail line on Hwy 43"??? Where?

I havent been over there in a while, but I dont remember all that much space. Hell, if they are going to make room for a couple rail lines (there would have to be a line ea way), and they could just make the friggin hwy a couple lanes wider for a lot less money.
And can you imagine the time it would take? You can walk faster than the streetcar...(I have done it).

The rail line is already there. It's where the vintage trolley runs (or used to run -- they were bumped by SoWhat).

The Trolley Committee sounds like the issue that is questioned about Portland's PDC eleven Urban Renewal Districts-mostly made up of "stakeholders" but little representation of those who really pay for the projects, and are directly affected by them. Sellwood is not represented, West Linn not represented, CTLH-South Portland not represented, Dunthorpe not represented-my gosh! Sound like "Planning" to me.

Only "tens of millions" Jack?
Its about 8.5 miles from Portland to Lake O according to Mapquest.

The Interstate MAX line is only 5.8 miles, and cost $350 million.

Maybe they could just run another tram [rimshot] down the backside of the hill?

The rail line is already there. It's where the vintage trolley runs (or used to run -- they were bumped by SoWhat).

I bet they would still have to run new rail bed. The weight of the new equipment, and even the track width is probably different.

This WW article on the same topic is over a year old but may be of some interest.

The rail line is still there. It's a standard gauge railway. The Southern Pacific Railroad ran freight trains on it from Lake Oswego to the industries in North Macadam until the late 1980s, so the track and railbed should be able to take the weight of light rail.

Running light rail on that alignment has one physical and two legal problems. The physical problem is that on its course through Dunthorpe, the track passes under Elk Rock in a single-track tunnel, which isn't wide enough to be double-tracked. The two political problems are that it runs through Powers Marine Park (the long narrow park south of the Sellwood Bridge) and through a whole bunch of Dunthorpian backyards. Double-tracking the line through the park would take up a lot of the park grounds, and the owners of the Dunthorpe backyards would likely start a revolution if TriMet tried to condemn their property.

Isaac is right, but posters are dead wrong on cost. This would be a relatively cheap and easy extension to the streetcar. As long as we're running it to SoWa (a done deal), it would be stupid not to run a line down 43, where it could make some real headway on what is turning into one of the worst commutes in town.

paul,

What an egalitarian notion. I feel the pain of those poor LO commuters.

Stupid is as stupid does.

"One of the worst commutes in town"? You must be kidding. I drive right up 43 from downtown L.O. to Pill Hill (rim shot) and it takes me 15-17 minutes door to door.

By the way, today's L.O. Review newspaper includes an article about a guy who's accusing Tri-Met GM Fred Hansen and L.O. Mayor Judie Hammerstad of stacking the streetcar study committee with *supporters* of the plan (surPRISE, surPRISE).

Anyhow, I figured out a simple solution eons ago to streamline traffic flow from the Sellwood Bridge to downtown L.O. - nearly 100% of the way, 43 is a three-lane road. Sometimes it's two lanes southbound and one northbound; sometimes it's two northbound and one southbound. The simple answer would be to have one dedicated lane in each direction, and make the center lane reversible - northbound in the morning, southbound in the afternoon.

Piece of cake. No need for a gazillion dollar streetcar that only tourists will take.

How often is the streetcar going to need to run to meet the demand?
And once again we seem to find a way for the toys, but nothing to train the boys in blue adequately.
Michael

Hinckley:

The reversible lane idea is a great one. Many modern cities, like Phoenix have this type of layout in place and it works.

The problem with a project like that in Portland is, regardless of cost, it would cater to cars. The city of Portland and Metro wont even synchronize traffic lights because it might cause a slight reduction in transit ridership.

Cars are the devil. Long live the tram!

The Dunthorpe gang have been trying to get this old rail line abandoned for over 20 years now - so they can maintain their private exclusive playground from the unwashed masses trying to get to work.

They're always looking for "useful idiots" to trumpet their elitist cause - and it looks like they've found a few more just about now.

The BTA wants to convert the R/R right of way to a bike path.

so they can maintain their private exclusive playground from the unwashed masses trying to get to work

How many ways does the government have to provide you to get to work? There's a road already there. You can drive on it, alone or in a carpool. You can ride a bike on it. You can take Tri-Met. You could even call Radio Cab. Does the taxpayer have to foot the bill for a train, a plane and a boat too?

I hope the Sellwood Bridge Committee considers the reversible lane idea, making the existing bridge a three lane bridge with bike and pedestrian passage on the lower trusses. Maybe the Sellwood neighborhood could see this as a compromise. The reversible lanes do work well in Seattle on I-5 as they do in Phoenix.

This same approach could be used on the Columbia Crossing on I-5.

Saito is bought and paid for in typical Portland planning fashion.
His SoWa property owning company was given the riverfront SE Holman Building by the PDC for $400k after the PDC dumped 3 million into it and is now fundinfg part of the renovation.
He'll play Homer any time the schemers call.

Bruce, my understanding is that, unfortunately, some of the right of way has a reversionary clause - if it isn't used for trains, it goes back to the property owners. So the Dunthropians can prevent a bicycle path from being put on the old right-of-way by exercising some reversionary rights.

If it weren't for that, I think a busway would be a better idea than a train, myself. That way, buses from West Linn and beyond oculd use the right of way, free from ever-worsening Highway 43 traffic, and not involve transfers either in Lake Oswego or downtown.

That's my understanding also. The SP didn't own the entire railbed in fee simple, but had easements over parts of it that were limited to rail use. Local government subsidizes the streetcar to keep the railbed owners from claiming that the rail line has been abandoned and therefore reverts to them.